It's all to play for...

**NeilMcD** · 07/06/2007, 10:39 AM

I have seen Sheridan a few times and I dont think much of him to be honest but he is only a young kid so I would not be too harsh on him but I would have him way down the pecking order for Irish strikers and I feel he is a good bit down the Celtic pecking order also.

**Paddy Garcia** · 07/06/2007, 10:43 AM

And a lot further down the order after the signing of Scott McDonald and Killen. You won't see much of him next year.

**NeilMcD** · 07/06/2007, 10:52 AM

Yeah but youngirish is the greatest talent spotter on this board.

**geysir** · 07/06/2007, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by Paddy Garcia

Frankly I'm not sure where all this optimism comes from. I can'y help feeling it is misplaced, with very little evidence to suggest a revival.

The Welsh game was awful, they did not even turn up. 1-0 is nothing to feel pleased about or indeed to build any confidence on.
We did our best (especially Quinn) to give Slovakia a draw, they really should have scored twice in the last few minutes.
The win against San Marion is an embarrassment. Rather undeserved.
The home Czech game was something of a must win - yet the draw was treated like a victory.

I can't see us beating Germany at home, given our struggles against far weaker teams.

On top of that we have lost Duff for the next few months, have a weak midfield & a clueless manager. I do agree he has been lucky to date though.

Optimism has more come from the Czech's visible evidence of falling apart as a team. They have lost a home game and dropped 2 away to Wales. That gives us a fighting chance.
That would all but dissapear if we lose to them away.
I can discriminate between the feeling of pride in performance from a patched up side drawing at home to the Czechs to the devastation at missing the real chance to beat them.

**tetsujin1979** · 07/06/2007, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by geysir

The Germans have already beaten the Czechs away.

The big game for us is the Czechs away, a draw is the minimum result needed.
Realistically you can dump those equations that include us losing there.

Sorry, meant Germany will beat the Czechs at home
again not too unreasonable an assumption, Germany have a 100% record at home (1-0 against us, 6-0 VS San Marino, 2-1 VS Slovakia)

**youngirish** · 07/06/2007, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Yeah but youngirish is the greatest talent spotter on this board.

True I'll get back to you the end of next season when Sheridan is getting regular games for Celtic.

**cavan_fan** · 07/06/2007, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by geysir

Optimism has more come from the Czech's visible evidence of falling apart as a team. They have lost a home game and dropped 2 away to Wales. That gives us a fighting chance.
That would all but dissapear if we lose to them away.
I can discriminate between the feeling of pride in performance from a patched up side drawing at home to the Czechs to the devastation at missing the real chance to beat them.

Absolutely, added to the fact the Slovak's arent the force we thought, Wales are shocking and Cyprus are capable of the odd result, this has become our ideal group.

**geysir** · 07/06/2007, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Germany have a 100% record at home (1-0 against us, 6-0 VS San Marino, 2-1 VS Slovakia)

Apparantly it was a comfortable enough victory against Slovakia

"after Thomas Hitzlsperger put the hosts ahead two minutes before the break the result was rarely in any doubt."
"Germany's superiority in every department shone through"

from http://www.sportinglife.com/football...Nightlead.html

**Paddy Garcia** · 07/06/2007, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by geysir

Optimism has more come from the Czech's visible evidence of falling apart as a team. They have lost a home game and dropped 2 away to Wales. That gives us a fighting chance.
That would all but dissapear if we lose to them away.
I can discriminate between the feeling of pride in performance from a patched up side drawing at home to the Czechs to the devastation at missing the real chance to beat them.

Confidence needs to be borne from the merits of one's own team not the weakness of others.

I agree that the Czech performances have opened a door, but that means nothing if we cannot capitalise on it. I'm saying there is little to suggest we can. For all their "falling apart" they were still good enough to get a draw away to us.

The team was patched up with the likes of Carsley. The kind of patching up which forced Stan's hand into a sensible decision.

**Paddy Garcia** · 07/06/2007, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by youngirish

True I'll get back to you the end of next season when Sheridan is getting regular games for Celtic.

.. reserves.

**geysir** · 07/06/2007, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Paddy Garcia

Confidence needs to be borne from the merits of one's own team not the weakness of others.

I agree that the Czech performances have opened a door, but that means nothing if we cannot capitalise on it. I'm saying there is little to suggest we can. For all their "falling apart" they were still good enough to get a draw away to us.

The team was patched up with the likes of Carsley. The kind of patching up which forced Stan's hand into a sensible decision.

The Czechs had beaten Slov. off the park away before they came to Dublin.
I'd say with confidence that then they hadn't dropped to the level that they are at now.
Why we are stronger than 9 months ago is in part to do with the squad now compared to then.
Doyle, Kelly, Hunt and McShane all made competitive debuts.
We are a stronger squad for that, no doubt.
Carsley is a plus.
If Given comes back?
Another reasonable possibility are the Reids.
Whatever the standard of the first 11 there has never been such an abundance of good cover for missing players.
There is no doubt in my mind that we are better, I don't know if that is good enough to get a result away to the Czechs.

**tetsujin1979** · 07/06/2007, 1:04 PM

Originally Posted by Paddy Garcia

.. reserves.

He's already playing regularly for Celtic reserves

**NeilMcD** · 07/06/2007, 1:06 PM

Yeah and I dont think he will be much further than that by this time next year to be honest.

**SuperDave** · 07/06/2007, 2:57 PM

i've done a little research and can confirm that if we finish level with the czechs having drawn away with them, it comes down to:

http://www.uefa.com/competitions/eur...id=324619.html
If two or more teams are equal on points on completion of the group matches, the following criteria are applied to determine the rankings.
a) Higher number of points obtained in the group matches played among the teams in question.
b) Superior goal difference from the group matches played among the teams in question.
c) Higher number of goals scored in the group matches played among the teams in question.
d) Higher number of goals scored away from home in the group matches played among the teams in question.
e) If, after applying criteria a) to d) to several teams, two or more teams still have an equal ranking, the criteria a) to d) will be reapplied to determine the ranking of these teams. If this procedure does not lead to a decision, criteria f) and g) will apply.
f) Results of all group matches: 1. Superior goal difference 2. Higher number of goals scored 3. Higher number of goals scored away from home 4. Fair play conduct.
g) Drawing of lots.

so if we draw 0-0 against czechs, we'd lose at all square, 1-1 and overall gd would apply and 2-2 or more and we'd be through, unless we also finished level with slovaks, in which case ultra complications would arise.

**carloz** · 07/06/2007, 3:06 PM

Looking at the fixtures im a bit worried about the way they are panning out for the Czechs. Id be much happier if they were playing Cyprus away before the last game. Id generally expect Cyprus to get a draw particularly given the czchs dodgy form. but with them playing in the last round of matches, and Ireland not, if the Czechs know they need a win out there then id fully expect them to get it. Also with us playing Germany just before they play the Czechs, id fully expect Germany to do everything to get the win in Croke Park to guarantee top qualification for them.Should Germany get a result in Dublin id fully expect them to play some of their fringe players in the czech game to prepare them for the Euro Championships. To qualify i believe we need to win every game an allow for one slip, possibly a draw in Prague which is probably all we can hope for. God knows it is a hell of a long while since we got a decent away win........but we are due one.

**paul_oshea** · 07/06/2007, 3:11 PM

a) Higher number of points obtained in the group matches played among the teams in question.
b) Superior goal difference from the group matches played among the teams in question.
c) Higher number of goals scored in the group matches played among the teams in question.

None of these differentiate between a draw. I mean if you draw how can you have scored more goalss in the match than the other person, D is the only differentiater!!!! Obviously if we win at home and they win at home by more that is the only other option.

**cavan_fan** · 07/06/2007, 3:30 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

None of these differentiate between a draw. I mean if you draw how can you have scored more goalss in the match than the other person, D is the only differentiater!!!! Obviously if we win at home and they win at home by more that is the only other option.

They are not there for draws.

The first comes into play if despite the teams being level one team had won both matches or won and drawn.

The second applies if both teams win one match but e.g. 1-0 and 0-2

The third applies only if there are 3 teams involved.

**paul_oshea** · 07/06/2007, 3:46 PM

i know that. didnt realise the third one was for 2 teams though!

**mypost** · 07/06/2007, 4:46 PM

Germany
v Wales (a) Draw
v Us (a) Win
v Czechs (h) Win
v Cyprus (h) Win
v Wales (h) Win

Points: 32

Czechs:
v S&M (a) Win
v Us (h) Win
v Germany (a) Lose
v Slovaks (h) Win
v Cyprus (a) Win

Points: 26

Slovaks:
v Us (h) Win
v Wales (h) Win
v S &M (h) Win
v Czechs (a) Lose
v S&M (a) Win

Points: 21

Us:

v Slovaks (a) Lose
v Czechs (a) Lose
v Germany (h) Lose
v Cyprus (h) Win
v Wales (a) 0-0 Draw

Points: 17

Fairly clear-cut

The thick clueless puppet hasn't a hope imo of getting anything in the next 3 games, and beating Cyprus (with a full-strength side) at home is about as far as he is capable of getting us.

**eirebhoy** · 07/06/2007, 6:41 PM

Originally Posted by Paddy Garcia

And a lot further down the order after the signing of Scott McDonald and Killen. You won't see much of him next year.

Celtic will sign another striker on top of that this summer for the first team but it shouldn't affect Sheridan's chances. He's up against Venegoor and Killen for 1 spot in the team, simple as that really. I got Celtic TV last week so I can watch Celtic reserve football now.

There should be a few Irish players in their reserves next year. As I said before I wouldn't underestimate Strachan's judgement of a player. It's absolutely amazing that Sheridan played for Celtic's first team within 6 months of joining the club.

Originally Posted by Paddy Garcia

Frankly I'm not sure where all this optimism comes from. I can'y help feeling it is misplaced, with very little evidence to suggest a revival.

The Welsh game was awful, they did not even turn up. 1-0 is nothing to feel pleased about or indeed to build any confidence on.

We're usually a match for anyone at home and rarely beat the mid-ranked teams convincingly.

Originally Posted by carloz

Also with us playing Germany just before they play the Czechs, id fully expect Germany to do everything to get the win in Croke Park to guarantee top qualification for them.Should Germany get a result in Dublin id fully expect them to play some of their fringe players in the czech game to prepare them for the Euro Championships.

Well if Germany do beat us in Dublin it's almost certainly the end of our campaign anyway.