a history lesson to our political friends

**dalo** · 13/02/2003, 2:49 PM

I wrote this up to counteract some of the awful history "lessons" we are receiving here from crc, macy and conor74(surely he is taking the mick {collins}) on the roy keane judas nonsense

sorry but you are ignorant of your own history.

the partition of ireland was already sanctioned thru the 1920 goverment of ireland act and that was pre-agreed by the english goverment and the irish home rule party as far back as 1912.
the treaty debates had nothing to do with NI' the issue at stake was one of the oath of allliegance. it was believed the issue of the north was to be solved the setting up of the 1925 boundary comission and that the re'partioning of the north would occur thru political-religous lines.

This never happened as the rep of the free state - Eoin Mc Neill was outweighed by Justice feetham and the NI representive.

Btw Conor you have to admit FF since the Lynch era up to recently were always content to play lip service to a Untied nationalist ireland knowing fully well it could never be acheived unless the Unionist population were forcefully coerced into it. therefore they knew it could never really occur but were always content to play the green card to the electorate of the south.

fitzgerald and hume were the only ones with a enough cop on to realise in the 1970\s and 1980's that untity of constent best served all political interests in this ireland. this is a fact that adams also realises and that in effect prov Sf and the ira are doomed to fail, hence there willingness to a participate in the NIAssembly.

**dalo** · 14/02/2003, 7:53 AM

Originally posted by Conor74
Aye yi yi caramba.

Go back through my posts. I never mentioned the North. The partition of the island was not really of central importance to the Treaty debate, so I would never blame the Free State for the boundary. They did RATHER mess up on the old Boundary Commission though.

As for Garret Fitzgerald, he didn't so much do anything as take whatever bone Margaret Thatcher flung in his direction before crawling back to the corner with his tail between his legs. Hume deserves credit alright, but it was all plodding nowhere until a certain leader by the name of Albert Reynolds strode into town. And by some miracle the work he did was so monumental, that it suvived the uter uselessness of John Bruton's government thereafter...

I love the sound of the a impartial FF supporter.

ye made college debates so refreshing

**Macy** · 14/02/2003, 8:47 AM

Originally posted by Conor74
until a certain leader by the name of Albert Reynolds strode into town.

Don't get me started on that waster...... His main legacy is the Longford Bypass, but he couldn't be @rsed doing the things that were really important like getting jobs to the region...... Well I suppose he was decent enough to pass his seat on to an equally inept person.....

**pete** · 14/02/2003, 10:10 AM

Originally posted by Conor74
Ah, but there was nothing so interesting as FF committee elections at college. It was like the Gang of Four and the Night opf the Long Knives and a coup in some small South American country all mixed together, every year. Great stuff...

Good practice for any future FF political careers i presume.

Originally posted by Macy
His main legacy is the Longford Bypass...

First of all why would anyone want to bypass Longford & i've never seen any traffic worth talking about from Kinnegad to Longford.

**fosterdollar** · 14/02/2003, 11:03 AM

Originally posted by Macy
Don't get me started on that waster...... His main legacy is the Longford Bypass, but he couldn't be @rsed doing the things that were really important like getting jobs to the region...... Well I suppose he was decent enough to pass his seat on to an equally inept person.....

Macy, whether you like it or not, that is pure gratuitous criticism of, not the best, but certainly a once great leader of this country. What exactly did u think made him inept?

**fosterdollar** · 14/02/2003, 2:57 PM

Originally posted by Conor74
I presume she...

hehe

**fosterdollar** · 14/02/2003, 2:58 PM

he won't be heading to portlaoise at the end of the month i suppose so

**Aberdonian Stu** · 14/02/2003, 4:59 PM

Lads I know I don't usually get involved but one of the main problems with the Boundary commission was that it was sort of designed to fail. Y'see with most land negotiations of the era (Versailles being the obvious one) they used only one criterion for each region. However in the case of the North they used 3 criteria, two of which were geographic and cultural (I've forgotten what the third was). By complicating the process they ensured a delay on the findings and thus a relatively peaceful albeit buggered solution. It obviously didn't work in the long run but it was meant to be a short term solution (ie bugger it now sort it out later).

**pete** · 14/02/2003, 5:09 PM

Jeez spot the Potics/History students in this thread.

de Valera -> backstabbing traitor.
Micheal Collins -> irish hero not appreciated in his lifetime.

Did no one see the Michael Collins movie?

**dalo** · 17/02/2003, 7:54 AM

Originally posted by Conor74
It never really went into his bisexuality. Did you know Collins was bisexual, Pete? To quote Michael Caine, not a lot of people know that. Or else they don't believe it. But he was, apparently.

The funny thing is, it might have spiced up what was a crap film whose origins were probably more founded in Fianna Fail's decision to cut funding to the film board when director Neil Jordan was working in Ireland in the early 80's than the life of the fellow that tried to sign my country away... (that was a dig, of course...)

crap film alright.

bisexual ? never heard of that but then sure wasn't Pearse a cross dresser, Casement a abuser of young congolese boys and Dev a coward who got a breakdown in bolands mills in 1916.

honestly guys couldn't ye keep the rumours for the football

**Macy** · 17/02/2003, 9:32 AM

Originally posted by Conor74
I presume she's

F*ck off conor...

Originally posted by Conor74
I presume she's from a long line of blueshirts or smoked salmon socialists, Magoo. They're always the most bitter. You can identify them by saying "Fianna Fail, the Republican Party" within earshot and watching their reaction...

Magoo knows that I do consider myself a socialist, most definitely not a blueshirt, but I've listed my valid reasons for being anti-fianna fail on here many times to you before.... At the moment the main ones would be - the continued reduction in the Corporation Tax rate, whilst at the same time telling the rest if us that they can't afford to widen the tax bands/ reduce the lower rate of tax... The fact that McCreevy is just a PD puppet, and the way that the reductions to the top rate of tax benefitted so few so much (The pre-election budget the bottom 60% 6% better off, the top 6% 60% better off)... The eP/Bertie Bowl farce, and the continual @rse kissing of the bogballers... The lack of a coherent ayslum policy.... Allowing that racist cork candidate to remain within the party after his pre-election outburst... The plans to privatise the bus service (Lived through this in Manch when the Tories tried it - it doesn't work!!!).... The continued mess that is the health service... The fact that they have produced a vastly disproportionate number of corrupt members... The way that they are putting Irish Jobs ahead of Iraqi lives in support of the US.... The continued fudge that are the tribunals, instead of dealing with the issues... Still bitter about Nice - surely it's only 1 all in terms of referendum results... The way that they are allowed to flaunt the rules of law in this country (eg speed limits).... CJ Haughey...

**Macy** · 17/02/2003, 3:58 PM

Wouldn't think you're the man to talk about obsession, as you're obviously extremely keen to have Bertie's/ Dev's/ Reynolds infact anyone high up in Fianna Fail's love child(ren)....

Actually I think there's none of the mainstream parties that do enough to tackle real issues, hence the swing to percieved radical parties, and the increase in general apathy....

Inreality the only difference between Fianna Fail and Fianna Gael, with the possibly the past and present corruption within Fianna Fail, that seperates the two main parties....

**pete** · 17/02/2003, 4:45 PM

Originally posted by Conor74
...our forefathers were right in the Civil War, and theirs were wrong...

who says the minority are never right...

**an 'rock'** · 18/02/2003, 9:50 AM

the big difference is that our forefathers were right in the Civil War, and theirs were wrong...

Forgive conor lads he was brought up thinking that any one who disagrees with him is a blue shirt or a crusty... either way not to be listened to.

It's well he lives in the past (albeit a distorted past of political one up manship!) because if he took off the blinkers and lived in the present he might realise that our government are making us the only "neutral?" country actively defying the UN and helping a genocidal despot to tighten his grip on world oil in a vein effort to stablise his own fortune 500 run economy.

that said I'll be in portlaoise getting drunk for free and maybe even a getting a brown envelope or two!

If you can't beat them take advantage until they come into rifle range!

**an 'rock'** · 18/02/2003, 7:08 PM

designed to provoke those who would actually believe that people could still be stuck in civil war politics

IN THAT CASE CIVIL WAR POLITICS ASIDE WHAT EXACTLY IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FINE GAEL AND FINNA FAIL????????????

quote:
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Originally posted by Macy
Inreality the only difference between Fianna Fail and Fianna Gael, with the possibly the past and present corruption within Fianna Fail, that seperates the two main parties....
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DO I HEAR THE SOUND OF AGREEMENT IN THE FORUM.... IT'S OKAY CON IT'S JUST ANOTHER FAUX PAS BY A BLUE SHIRT!

**James** · 18/02/2003, 7:21 PM

Mammy whats a Blueshirt

*points at Conor*
"is he one?"

**sadloserkid** · 19/02/2003, 9:13 AM

So boys... what do ye think of the Green Party!

**pete** · 19/02/2003, 9:45 AM

Originally posted by Conor74
One glaring difference is the priority afforded to the situation in the North.

Nobody cares about the North anyway. Beyond me why anyone would want to share their country with those animals - give me those kerry animals anyday.

dinny · 24/02/2003, 8:23 PM

Any one heading to Portloaise ?

There will be a real dodgy ****er called Denis Ryan looking for your vote

VOTE DINNY
VOTE OFTEN

**an 'rock'** · 25/02/2003, 8:42 AM

.. you responded to this tread, i suppose the fear of political dicussions made you wary but your unquenchable desire for votes just sucked you in!

you've got my no.1 as often as I have been given a "vote"!