QuoteCome on Owls fan. When Keane and Giggs played for their country they gave it their all. Certain players are not needed for friendlies to be honest.
The most hilarious interview of the year yesterday. It was Ryan Giggs retiring from international duties. Said how sorry he was, what a difficult decision it was etc etc. And he kept a straight face. This from a guy that delayed playing his first friendly until he was 29. And was selective about other games he played in.
Chalk up another name on the long list of footballing frauds.
In the words of a friend of mine:
Yeh, he must be exhausted from all those games he missed for Wales.
He made RK look like he was obsessive about turning up for ROI
Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.
Come on Owls fan. When Keane and Giggs played for their country they gave it their all. Certain players are not needed for friendlies to be honest.
In Trap we trust
If Giggs were actually allowed to play those friendlies he would have done so. It's practically written into his Man Utd contract that he can't travel more than 100 miles for a friendly, it would seem.
"Life is like a hair on a toilet seat. Sooner or later you are bound to get pi$$ed off."
"In this league, a draw is sometimes as good as a win" - Steve Morison
What are you saying? Some players are above playing for their countries in friendlies which are only for the "little people". Either you want to play for your country or you don't. Or are people allowed opt out and say "I'll only play when it matters and the second raters can play in the friendlies because I can't be ars*d". ?Originally Posted by NeilMcD
Giggs was a joke. Age 29 before he played his first friendly. Then we have the crocodile tears about retiring from playing for Wales.
Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.
everyone knows giggs can do it and friendlies enable you to see more about your team. for all his faults, staunton at least experiments in friendlies rather than playing his strongest XI and learning nothing, a la Brian Kerr. I'm glad we played who we did in the US, because now its clear who has a future and who doesn't.What are you saying? Some players are above playing for their countries in friendlies which are only for the "little people". Either you want to play for your country or you don't. Or are people allowed opt out and say "I'll only play when it matters and the second raters can play in the friendlies because I can't be ars*d". ?
Giggs was a joke. Age 29 before he played his first friendly. Then we have the crocodile tears about retiring from playing for Wales.
...and Marcello Lippi. Kerr used the friendlies well imo.
seeing how he played against us, I think he made the decision to retire before the game........he made john o shea look good for fux sake!!!
I guess he didn't want that as his swansong.
Except when Brazil came to town.It's practically written into his Man Utd contract that he can't travel more than 100 miles for a friendly, it would seem.
He only had to take a trip down to London for that one.
Except when Brazil came to town.
I genuinely believe he'd have played more games for us if he hadn't been so successful and important at club level. But we'll never know.
"Life is like a hair on a toilet seat. Sooner or later you are bound to get pi$$ed off."
"In this league, a draw is sometimes as good as a win" - Steve Morison
Giggs and Keano were prone to injuries at the best of times hence the need to watch how many games a season they played. Friendlies should be used to blood in youngsters once you have a good idea of your preferred team.
Giggs was (still is) a great player and I hope he does the business for us Saturday.
"If God had meant football to be played in the air, he'd have put grass in the sky." Brian Clough.
You'll NEVER beat the Irish.......you'll just draw with us instead!!!
or if wales had been more successful at international level... it was simple prioritisation... maybe he looked at wales and thought "nah, ****e, i'll never qualify with these clowns, why bother unless i have to." look at it, he only starting playing friendlies when they started to look semi-competitive again and nearly qualified for a couple of things. now whether wales might have been more successful if he had been more 'committed' (and i think he was committed to wales, but some buy the theory he wasn't), we'll never know, it may have been a horrible vicious circle that not bothering leads to worse results leads to less bothering etc etc etc, but i doubt it.
if your theory is right, then players like him at worse clubs would play more games... like jason koumas, who only has 22 caps at the age of 27. now i know he has had injury troubles and is fairly injury prone (especially if his continued and disastrous run of injuries he got in my west brom game of football manager is anything to go by. promoted, relegated, promoted, relegated, and in each premiership season he missed four fu*king months with a torn hamstring), but giggs had his worries too earlier in his career when he kept doing his hamstring and it affected his united games too, so its hard to say. that said, reading roy keane's autobiography, he recalled the days when players turned up for international duty with minor knocks and played through them, and maybe that is the problem giggs had in terms of commitment. i think its probably a bit of both in fairness.
Koumas is actually a legitamate case of maybe an attitude problem, but he does seem fully committed to us since Toshack took over. He is actually playing superbly for us lately and is probably our best player, even better than Bellamy and Giggs.
As for your point about Giggs, he had to try hard to balance his club career with his international one. It's all well and good to say he wasn't committed to us but I think he was just being sensible. If say he'd got injured in a friendly against a small international side he could potentially have missed out on winning major European trophies and Premiership medals.
If he'd been playing for a team with no hope of achieving those things, he'd probably have turned up for all our games. As it was he was there for the ones that really counted and I respect that he couldn't always be there for the ones that maybe weren't so important.
"Life is like a hair on a toilet seat. Sooner or later you are bound to get pi$$ed off."
"In this league, a draw is sometimes as good as a win" - Steve Morison
When all is said and done, Giggsy has been and still is a classy player.His past attendance record is exactly that...past!
I for one hope he has the game of his International life against the Czechs, playing alongside his Country's new inspirational,law abiding, role-model of a Captain....
Firstly, it wasn't the case of the manager experimenting. It was Giggs crying off with hamstrings, calf injuries, knee ligaments, sore testicl*s etc etc. I have no problem with a manager experimenting in friendlies but the squad (the whole squad) should get together for a whole host of reasons which are obvious.
Secondly, how many English players feigned injuries on a constant basis to get out of playing for their country? Very seldom and I include the Man U players here.
International football is under threat and if the big clubs had their way it would be scrapped. I have no time for the pick and choose international players.
Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.
I agree and Giggs was one of the worst of the bunch in this respect. People seem to cloud the lines between his ability (which he undoubtedly showed on some of the occasions when he did represent his nation) and his enthusiasm to play. A similar situation exists with Keane IMO among the Irish fans as indeed when he did play he was always one of the best players on the pitch due to his unquestionable ability and his will to win but he would more often than not be unavailable for friendlies when it didn't suit.
Considering the relatively few international games per season friendlies IMO are an often overlooked but excellent opportunity to give your senior players the chance to familiarise themselves with the team and the tactics. Instead of this we are usually treated to a team of inexpierenced youngsters many of which will play little, if any part in our upcoming competitve fixtures. When you look at club football it's often claimed that new players can take a dozen or more games before they 'gel' with the rest of the team. If you look at the current team Ireland, McShane, McGeady and Kevin Doyle have only a handful of caps between them and I've no doubt a few friendlies with the senior players would have been extremely beneificial for them and the rest of the team.
It sums up the whole game these days that many players would rather keep themselves fit and play for their clubs than turn out for their country in the hope that they can negotiate even more lucrative pay deals for themselves the next time their contracts are up.
The amount of withdrawals for Stan's summer tour of the US was an absolute disgrace. It shows how little regard many of our senior players (and even some of the not so senior ones) have for the national team when they won't take a few days out from their 2 months summer holidays to represent their country. It's sickening and there's no excuse.
Last edited by youngirish; 01/06/2007 at 12:31 PM.
I'd love to bring a large banner to our home games:
"Representing your country is an honour, not a chore.
You know who you are."
I don't know the ins and outs of the Ryan Giggs no shows but he appears to be an extreme case.
Times have changed.
In the past friendlies had a profile here when there was féck all else to aim for. I have done a reverse turn with all the furore about friendlies under Kerr, the achievements of winning them meant little. The main purpose of a friendly is to prepare a squad, in particular new players, for the serious games.
There has to be some give and take. Like when Souness was justifiably raging that Duff, just about match fit, played nearly 90 mins of some friendly, turning it on against some 3rd rate full back.
stutts i know well what ye mean if we could get it to take up one whole goal end and you stand oneside, ill stand the other and a few in the middle!!!
just look at the reaching for glory thing and you see the contrast in how much rugby players love playing for their country, something that has more than a little to do with how little they get paid compared to their soccer counterparts.
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
I really don't see the problem with the way Kerr used the friendlies. We played our strongest team with maybe 1 or 2 players added to the mix for each friendly. I think it's more important to use the friendlies for the likes of Keane and Doyle to gain and understanding together. The defensive unit is even more important. Also a player may look great playing in a 2nd string team but when he plays with the big boys he can look out of his depth.
Kerr mainly stuck with the same squad players for the 1 campaign, like you'd do at underage level. When he took over he had only 1 friendly to try things out so he decided to mainly stick with McCarthy's tried and trusted. That meant Gary Breen at centre half, Ian Harte at left back, Kilbane left wing, 2 of Holland/Kinsella/Carsley/Healy for the rest of the midfield, Duff up front half the time...
That all then changed in the friendlies between the 2-0 defeat to Switzerland and the world cup campaign. O'Brien and Cunningham had formed a very good partnership. O'Shea was the new left back. Duff was back to his best position on the left wing. Morrison and Keane had formed a decent partnership. Kilbane's most influential role was found and he was a regular as the work horse in central midfield, winning Ireland player of the year. Andy Reid became a regular...
If any young player deserved a place in the team they would have got the chance in a friendly. He'd never give a player their debut in a competitive. Andy Reid, Liam Miller, Stephen Elliott, Alan Quinn, Aiden McGeady and Alan Lee was the best of the quality coming through in Kerr's time in charge. Kevin Doyle began to make a name for himself at the end of Kerr's reign and he was brought into the squad.
As I said, Lippi was the same with Italy. He'd always play his strongest squad in friendlies and it worked wonders, he won me over a grand.
Kerr's problem with Richard Dunne is another matter but with the partnership O'Brien and Cunningham it wasn't really important.
Last edited by eirebhoy; 01/06/2007 at 12:58 PM.
ya because he was too cautious, and in that sentence you have summed up his failure. This cautiosness cost us qualification. you have spelt it out there yourself eirebhoy!!He'd never give a player their debut in a competitive.
If Lippi won ye grand, how much did kerr lose ye
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
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