Rugby World Cup

**paul_oshea** · 15/10/2007, 9:33 AM

expected england to beat france to be honest, but RSA shoould be grand so long as they dont get complacent.

Argentina looked tired, still though as piennar said the scoreline did not reflect the match, mistakes made that they normally wouldn't make, either through tiredness or trying too hard, they gifted RSA the game. The first half though they deserved at least ot be ahead ( against Ireland they would have been, as chances would have been taken ). Whats most frustrating is though, Ireland wouldn;t have made as many stupid errors as Argentina did and thats whats annoying about watching the more minnow sides, they are always prone to these things yet they only showed it in this match.

**gustavo** · 15/10/2007, 9:39 AM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Ireland wouldn;t have made as many stupid errors as Argentina did and thats whats annoying about watching the more minnow sides, they are always prone to these things yet they only showed it in this match.

We made countless errors against Namibia and Georgia never mind any of the bigger teams, also this more minnow side would that be the same one that beat us 30-15 ?

**paul_oshea** · 15/10/2007, 10:16 AM

sorry i shoudl have said the ireland of "old"!

**PinBallWizard** · 16/10/2007, 9:50 AM

It's going to be a very interesting final. England won't dominate the South African pack like they did the Australian/French packs. South Africa are damned if they do, damned if they don't having already whitewashed the English by 36 points. South Africa do however give up a lot of territory/posession during games and Jonny is running into a bit of form.

Can't wait.

Predict South Africa, but only just, with a bit o genius from Habana to win it.

**OneRedArmy** · 16/10/2007, 10:17 PM

I'm hoping for a victory for rugby.

If England win again it would be the lowest point in the history of the sport.

Never has a team with so little ambition or skill gone so far. Its a triumph for effort and planning over excitement and ability.

Plus they are English......

**paul_oshea** · 17/10/2007, 9:09 AM

ya, too true. you have been reading george hook but its true, and it made me think back to how limited they really were in 03 as well. not even 1 try scored in the semi final that year either yet they muster up 27 points. They are the real spoilers of how the game started i.e. running.

**joeSoap** · 17/10/2007, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by baileban

I think 4 of them played in 03 final and in Wilkinson they have a matchwinner with balls of steel and no little courage.

Try 8. Of those in Saturdays 22, Lewsey, Robinson, Wilkinson, Vickery and D'Allaglio all started the 03 Final, whilse Corry, Moody and Catt all came on as subs. It is a 22 man game after all...unless you're Irish.

**gustavo** · 17/10/2007, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

I'm hoping for a victory for rugby.

If England win again it would be the lowest point in the history of the sport.

Never has a team with so little ambition or skill gone so far. Its a triumph for effort and planning over excitement and ability.

Plus they are English......

To be fair to England you have to admire the way they went about things ,I mean they must have known if they played free flowing expansive rugby they wouldnt last long so they have a plan of action that plays around their strengths so fair play to them

**OneRedArmy** · 17/10/2007, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by gustavo

To be fair to England you have to admire the way they went about things ,I mean they must have known if they played free flowing expansive rugby they wouldnt last long so they have a plan of action that plays around their strengths so fair play to them

I don't admire it.

You respect how they have stuck to a rigid plan, but in a similar way to any Dermot Keely led side in the EL, in no way do I respect the way they play or indeed want them to succeed, as it is so hard to watch and devoid of any real excitement.

**joeSoap** · 17/10/2007, 11:04 AM

So you had no respect for Ireland during Germany 88, Italia 90 or USA 94 either then ? Nor did you want them to succeed?

**paul_oshea** · 17/10/2007, 11:19 AM

ORA i quoted your line about "lowest point in history" and sent it off to an english mate, who defines your typical example of an english supporter. and its ****ing me off, i got this back and the worst part is he is almost 100% right:

"Tell me about it I've predicted 99% of the results all the way through......

Mate, any good team would always play to their strengths. You don't win any cups for entertaining the crowd.
Remember rugby is a team game, and you can't deny England are not playing as a team.

It makes me laugh you going on about the lowest point in the history of the sport.
No one in your country new anything about the sport until a couple of years ago.

Go on Paul, support England on Saturday!!!!!"

**paul_oshea** · 17/10/2007, 11:21 AM

So you had no respect for Ireland during Germany 88, Italia 90 or USA 94 either then ? Nor did you want them to succeed?

gimmie that any day and lets deal with the naysayers and protaginsts on this site about jack charlton. Bring him back I say!!! And lets start qualifying and "compete" in championships.

**OneRedArmy** · 17/10/2007, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by joeSoap

So you had no respect for Ireland during Germany 88, Italia 90 or USA 94 either then ? Nor did you want them to succeed?

Funny I was going to bring up that example.

I think our soccer team under Big Jack deserve some leeway for being a small nation and making up for our poor standard of domestic football, limited playing pool, resources etc. The best rugby comparison I can think of is that everyone was heartened by the Georgians performance taking into account similar limitations as mentioned above, but when you analyse it, they play a very boring brand of rugby.

England don't have these excuses. They have the richest domestic League in the world, have one of the biggest player pools and yet, taking this into account have made it an objective to play an extremely limited game. Ergo they get little respect.

Oh and lastly I'm Irish, so, like the England rugby fans I'm hardly objective when it comes to my own country's success in any support.

Plus, to mention again, they are English and lord their achievements over all and sundry, so I am predisposed to them failing miserably.

**paul_oshea** · 17/10/2007, 11:30 AM

Plus, to mention again, they are English and lord their achievements over all and sundry, so I am predisposed to them failing miserably.

It took me a good few years and I Just figured it out this morning reading the Metro. The reason for this is, because they no longer have armies conquering the world, they rely on their sportsmen to do it for them, so they can look down and be all supreme. It really has turned me another way to loathe them, the english mentality has not changed at all, just evolved to match current day things.

**joeSoap** · 17/10/2007, 2:48 PM

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

England don't have these excuses. They have the richest domestic League in the world,.

Wrong. The French do...by a country mile.

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

have one of the biggest player pools and yet, taking this into account have made it an objective to play an extremely limited game. Ergo they get little respect.

Their huge player pool is populated by almost 40% foreigners, so its not as big as you think, yet still big enough. And they you use one great word there 'objective'. Being objective has got them to the final. That, and a sense of pride and togetherness sadly lacking in our game at the moment. They play to other teams weaknesses...did it against France, did it against Australia and they'll do it again on Saturday. Its called doing what needs to be done to win. That in my book deserves respect. You can respect the All Blacks or the French for all their attacking and flair. Gets you nowhere. I for one respect and admire good tacticians more so than the hugely talented. I just envy them.

**Soko** · 17/10/2007, 5:10 PM

40% of people playing rugby in England are foreigners? Interesting stat

**Bald Student** · 17/10/2007, 10:39 PM

Originally Posted by baileban

Joe Soap - spot on, in a nutshell, nuff said, on the button.Nobody would complain if Ireland played like England and got to the final!

The proof being that no one complains about Munster's style of play.

**OneRedArmy** · 18/10/2007, 7:42 AM

Originally Posted by baileban

Joe Soap - spot on, in a nutshell, nuff said, on the button.Nobody would complain if Ireland played like England and got to the final!

Replace "nobody" with "most people".

As I've stated many times in the thread already, a vocal minority of rugby people have been extremely critical of Eddie O'Sullivan over the last 3 years, through our "success period", over his rugby by numbers approach.

Are people that thick that they can't get it into their heads that comparing Ireland getting to the final (when we have never got beyond a QF and have won how many 5/6 nations?!!) to a country with infinitely more players, resources and track record is like comparing apples and oranges?

England are destroying the game, bottom line, and I for one hope they get torn to pieced and absolutely humiliated on Saturday.

**paul_oshea** · 18/10/2007, 8:19 AM

England are destroying the game, bottom line, and I for one hope they get torn to pieced and absolutely humiliated on Saturday.
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surely that will have a detrimental effect and a big let down for a world cup final, given that England have gone against all the odds, got to a final and get hammered. What would it then say about the RWC and the quality of rugby at the moment?

**OneRedArmy** · 18/10/2007, 9:10 AM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

What would it then say about the RWC and the quality of rugby at the moment?

It would say that the team that plays an exciting 15 man brand of rugby with a strong pack combined with pace and skill behind the scrum will dominate a slow, ponderous, one-dimensional game-spoiling sloth of a team who succeed through negative tactics.

Also high time for the IRB to reduce penalties, drop goals and conversions to 2 and 1 points respectively.