Next Government

[SligoBrewer]

The Health sector is in definite need of reform-true.

and education...
and crime....
and public transport..or transport in general..

i could list off the problems that ff has caused us..

[kingdom hoop]

Also the Traffic bedlam and crazy times for departure is a Dublin problem not a nationwide one.It is heavy at rush hour,granted,but we're not as misfortunate as those in certain Dublin areas.

Traffic problems pervade the country. I think it's mostly on account of some congenital defect Irish people have, we seem to have an aversion for long-term strategies. Tony Gregory touched on the lack of any clear strategy to deal with crime on Prime Time tonight. More Gardaí great, but what are they going to do?

On topic, Paddy Power now make the FG/Labour/Green Government even money favourite. Check out the odds here http://www.paddypower.com/bet?action...674&bir_index=

I'm really looking forward to the leaders debate on Thursday, 9.30, for entertainment value if nothing else. Could be pretty disheartening as well though, one of the those two boyos will be leading our country! It's a big test of Kenny's wherewithal, lets see if he can clasp the slippery slime.

[sligoman]

In all fairness, we're not in a massively bad condition. Yes hospitals are over-crowded, crime is on the up but realistically, regardless of who gets in they'll do the exact same as all politicians are in it for themselves at the end of the day.

[dahamsta]

Funny definition of success there by Conor H. I've always thought that a successful person or business was one that could manage all aspects of an operation, not one that that builds up one aspect of his business while letting another fall apart.

The building trade seems a suitable comparison, given the topic in hand. What do you call a builder with great bricklayers but woeful electricians and a terrible health and safety record?

Dunno about you, but I call 'em cowboys.

adam

[BohsPartisan]

Did your dad have a job and a car back then? Lucky him!

He was in and out of jobs and my ma had a part time job from time to time. In 1985 he got a steady job in Tara Mines where he still works to this day so that was lucky yes. In terms of cars, back then he had a series of rusty bangers. One had a hole in the floor on the passenger side. My point however was that yes in some ways we are better off. We (in general - lets not forget there have been some sectors of Irish society left in poverty despite the boom) have more disposable income. However in other ways the boom has quite clearly been wasted. With more money in the economy than ever before, it is criminal that the countries infrastructure, health service and education system are in the state they are in. It is not a "symptom of success" it is a symptom of our government being in the pocket of the property developers. The supposed alternative will change little or nothing all the same.

[Magicme]

In all fairness, we're not in a massively bad condition. Yes hospitals are over-crowded, crime is on the up but realistically, regardless of who gets in they'll do the exact same as all politicians are in it for themselves at the end of the day.

I cant believe am agreeing with you but generally speaking its true. The Civil servants run the country with a bit of support from the politicians. The government are just mainly a talking shop.

Having had my life saved on 2 occasions in the past few years by Monaghan Hospital, you can imagine the mess that Bertie & Co have made of the health system really bugs me. As a teenager, Mary Harney was a hero to me but she has totally disappointed me in recent times. That said, not sure how much could be done when you have HSE/Health Boards calling the shots. We need someone to go in and kick ass but dont think Enda Kenny is that guy either. We need Caomighin O'Caolain as Health Minister, but I wont be voting Sinn Fein for the 1st time in my voting life due to their attitude to soccer in my county.

God I want them to come knocking on my door so can have a rant, but somehow I always seem to miss the campaigners!

[pete]

Its crazy to suggest that the country not better now than 20 years ago. I can out of college in 1995 to 20% unemployment. The fact is anyone who is willing to work can find a job now.

FF/PDs seem to want to claim credit for the success of the last 10 years but no blame for the ills. I think they can claim credit to Corporate tax policy but thats about it. Ireland has little say its its economic policy as its driven by EU monetary policy & global trade. This election is about how & who spends the tax revenue. IMO FF/PDs have proven too many times they can't manage this. Its unknown if the alternative can do better.

[BohsPartisan]

The fact is anyone who is willing to work can find a job now.

Yeah on minimum wage.

40 year 100% mortgages.
Interest rates out of control.
Wage rises falling below inflation.
Race to the bottom in pay and conditions
Third world health service
Kids can't get into schools,
public transport is overcrowded

But never mind because people have a second car and a playstation 3.

[pete]

For all the problems now (i agree there are many) the country is still better off than 20 years ago. We can debate the current ills but its ludicrous to suggest it better before. 20% unemployment meant those lucky to have a job were paying high taxes to pay for those on social welfare. The only reason had only 20% unemployment was people queueing up to leave the country.

I don't want to drag this off topic but the minimum wage in Ireland is one of the highest anywhere. 20 years ago I don't think there even was a minimum wage.

[BohsPartisan]

I don't want to drag this off topic but the minimum wage in Ireland is one of the highest anywhere. 20 years ago I don't think there even was a minimum wage.

Thats a red herring Pete, in relation to the cost of living it is not one of the highest anywhere.
I'm not denying for one minute that in many ways we are better off but it is also true that in many we are worse off. We swapped one set of ills for another and the fact is it doesn't need to be that way when the country is awash with money.

[Poor Student]

Interest rates out of control.

Are interest rates not decided by the ECB?

[BohsPartisan]

Are interest rates not decided by the ECB?

Yes but successive governments have been selling the EU to us for years so they're complicit in this.

Anyhoo, my point was that our minimum wage or average wage for that matter are not so great when looked at in the context of these other factors. Also you have to factor in the record amounts of debt as to why people have more money in their pockets, the banks are throwing loans around like confetti.

[SÓC]

In all fairness, we're not in a massively bad condition. Yes hospitals are over-crowded, crime is on the up but realistically, regardless of who gets in they'll do the exact same as all politicians are in it for themselves at the end of the day.

Who says crime is on the up?

Its an age old politician's trick. John O'Donoghue did it in 1997, FG are trying their best to do it now. Crime levels in general are actually going down overall but the hype is being increased all the time.

If you get a chance have a look at Zedner's reply to David Garland's book Culture of Control and an Irish book called Crime Punishment and the Search for Order in Ireland by S. Kilcommins et al.

There should be two issues to this election IMO. 1) What parties can continue to provide the tax revenue and 2) who are better placed to spend said revenue wisely.

One of the biggest farces of this election has been the FG/Lab "joint policy documents" eg Where is their joint policy document on the Irish Language? FG and Lab dont have a hope in hell of getting in together, they'll need help, their policy documents are not worth the paper they're written on once the Greens get their hands on them and even then they could very well need help from Indys or the dreaded PDs...

[OneRedArmy]

Maybe I'm in danger of dragging this off-topic, but I get the impression some people (in addition to the parties themselves) are attempting to credit FF-PDs for the Celtic Tiger and the current general health of the country. This to me is absolute bunkum.

In the interests of disclosure, I have a vested interest in this as I did my thesis on the subject of the main drivers of the Celtic Tiger. The mere fact that I did the thesis between 1998 and early 99 is the biggest indication that the FF-PD coalition have actually very little to do with Ireland's prosperity.

Ireland's recent found wealth has more to do with accidental factors (our location, the fact we speak English and the UK not joining the Euro), supplemented by policy decisions taken mostly in the 70's and 80's (but also as far back as the 50's) such as free education and Foreign Direct Investment friendly policies such as zero percent corporation tax and government investment through the IDA.

In actual fact, when compared with the original Tiger economies of South East Asia, our reliance on FDI at the expense of indigenous start ups is our clear Achilles heel. The Asian economies were much more efficient at using inward investment as a catalyst (or simply stealing the technology in some cases!) to starting up their own companies and develop sustainable employment. The problem with relying on FDI is that it isn't particularly sticky and it is always seeking lower cost economies. Eg it would surprise me if Dell stayed in Ireland in any great numbers for any longer than another year or two. What would the impact on Limerick be if this happened? Examples like this are repeated all over the country where we are very reliant on multinational firms to whom the attractiveness of Ireland as an employment location drops day by day as prices rise.

An economist would tell you the way to beat this is to ensure that you move up the value curve, as Intel have done, by having R&D facilities in ireland so that the new, complex and high-value processes that can't be done elsewhere are kept in the country. The same can be applied to services, so instead of call centres, you have shared services centres, back off-outsourcing, sales etc as you move up the pyramid.

Bringing it back on-topic, its this area that the current coalition needed to focus on, ie sustaining the economic and taking it to the next phase. I remain to be convinced that they have actually done enough to sustain our economic performance through diversification going forward and I worry that we still have our economic eggs in too few baskets.

So basically, FF-PD had very little to do with our economic successes and as is the way with economic policies, the error of their ways may not be felt until well into the next Government or even the one after.

Rant over!

[BohsPartisan]

In the interests of disclosure, I have a vested interest in this as I did my thesis on the subject of the main drivers of the Celtic Tiger. The mere fact that I did the thesis between 1998 and early 99 is the biggest indication that the FF-PD coalition have actually very little to do with Ireland's prosperity.

If you have an electronic copy of your thesis I'd be interested in reading it.

[OneRedArmy]

If you have an electronic copy of your thesis I'd be interested in reading it.

I think I have a copy somewhere...........on floppy disk!!! I'll try and dig it out and PM you if I find it.

[BohsPartisan]

I think I have a copy somewhere...........on floppy disk!!! I'll try and dig it out and PM you if I find it.

Cheers

[pete]

Maybe I'm in danger of dragging this off-topic, but I get the impression some people (in addition to the parties themselves) are attempting to credit FF-PDs for the Celtic Tiger and the current general health of the country.

I don't think anyone was suggesting that. There was small debate on whether we better off now than 20 years ago.

Interest Rates controlled by the EU. Without the EU we would be living in mud huts. Where was Ireland in 1973?

[Magicme]

Where was Ireland in 1973?

Awaiting my birth!

[BohsPartisan]

Where was Ireland in 1973?

Roughly the same spot as it is now.

Without the EU we would be living in mud huts.

The house my parents live in was built in 1938. Its certainly no mud hut, in fact its better built than my house which was built in 2002.