Election 2007: Is Bertie a liability?

[passinginterest]

Just realised this is gone totally off topic.

Was thinking the same thing about it being a big mistake having Bertie on all the posters. Like many I have a feeling he's going to come out of this smelling of roses and have a massive surge of public support in the days leading up to the election.

[Bald Student]

I'm not so sure. I thought up untill about a month ago that FF were gonners but now the election seems to be almost turning into a referendum on whether you like Bertie. I think that's to the disadvantage of FG and Lab because they had the election won on the important issues.

If stronger evidance comes out over the 2 weeks or if the opposition can prove that the PDs are or someone in FF is behind the leaks Bertie will loose. If this rumbles on like it is at the moment for 2 more weeks or if Bertie can show his innocence FF could well come out of this looking good.

[pete]

She looks impressive on the posters, but, this appears to be an act of the magic airbrush. Closer inspection of other FG canvassing rubbish in the letterbox shows her to be far from a pretty sight.

Disappointing to hear that. Only seen her posters. She must have used same air brush as Bertie & Enda.

I believe it was O'Snodaigh but can't remember the exact details. Maybe he was just hiding in the long grass.

btw please post Election Totty pictures here

[republicofwhite]

I'll attempt to veer this slightly back on topic... Although not in relation to financial irregularities... I met Bertie about two weeks ago and was distinctly unimpressed, granted I did catch him off guard. Tongue in cheek, I wondered why he chose to host the GE smack in the middle of pretty much every university's exams across the nation and teased him whether it was a tactical maneouvre and part of his overall plan. He didn't really know what to say and just kept asking me where I was based, when I'd come up with another conundrum for him. You could see he was just as unimpressed with me as I was with him. I heard a succinct analogy re: Bertie...He's like a Chinese Takeaway... At the time its very pleasing and satisfying, but as soon as your finished with it/him you feel sick, unsatisfied and uneasy. I implore anyone to read the latest issue of Mongrel. Wonderful expose article on the bureaucratic pathway of getting to Bertie by Eoin Butler. Not so much frightening, but quite enlightening!

[kingdom hoop]

I'll attempt to veer this slightly back on topic... Although not in relation to financial irregularities... I met Bertie about two weeks ago and was distinctly unimpressed, granted I did catch him off guard. Tongue in cheek, I wondered why he chose to host the GE smack in the middle of pretty much every university's exams across the nation and teased him whether it was a tactical maneouvre and part of his overall plan. He didn't really know what to say and just kept asking me where I was based, when I'd come up with another conundrum for him. You could see he was just as unimpressed with me as I was with him. I heard a succinct analogy re: Bertie...He's like a Chinese Takeaway... At the time its very pleasing and satisfying, but as soon as your finished with it/him you feel sick, unsatisfied and uneasy. I implore anyone to read the latest issue of Mongrel. Wonderful expose article on the bureaucratic pathway of getting to Bertie by Eoin Butler. Not so much frightening, but quite enlightening!

Great post! Wonderful flow, broad vocabulary usage, made a strong point and entertaining to boot. With such precocious aptitude I wouldn't be surprised if Mongrel came a knocking at your door! I'd pay to read that, only Mongrel is free so I won't have to!

[Calcio Jack]

Bertie has finished delivering his speech in the House of commons. Not a bad effort on his part....but IMO he made one major error and he has let down badly the memory of millions of Irish men and women... he said "...emigration was for too long a recurring theme of the great Irish saga, from the horrors of the Great Famine to dark economic times in the 20th Centuary..."

IMO such a passing reference to the famine is a disgrace... I know it is in the past etc but I feel that he should of had the confidence and the decency to state clearly that the British were the cause...sure we have moved on but a historical fact is a fact. The British, every time a member of the Japanese Royal family visit the UK often ask why don't they apologise for
the treatment of British soldiers and civilians during WW2... I think we are long overdue such an apology and our outgoing Tshock should of done more today , regretfully he let us own.

[Dodge]

Noticed in my constituency that some of the "Bertie's Team" posters have been taken down and replaced with diamond shaped boardds with just the names of the candidates.

[Poor Student]

IMO such a passing reference to the famine is a disgrace... I know it is in the past etc but I feel that he should of had the confidence and the decency to state clearly that the British were the cause...sure we have moved on but a historical fact is a fact. The British, every time a member of the Japanese Royal family visit the UK often ask why don't they apologise for
the treatment of British soldiers and civilians during WW2... I think we are long overdue such an apology and our outgoing Tshock should of done more today , regretfully he let us own.

I think you're well off the mark here. If the British government would like to apologise for policies which lent to the severity of the famine, then that's welcome but it's not the Taoiseach's place to create open conflict about the matter in such a time of reconciliation and progress.

[pete]

I think you're well off the mark here. If the British government would like to apologise for policies which lent to the severity of the famine, then that's welcome but it's not the Taoiseach's place to create open conflict about the matter in such a time of reconciliation and progress.

I did not hear the speech but agree with that comment. It would be insulting to raise the issue on such an invite when he has had numerous other opportunities to raise.

[Ringo]

Bertie has finished delivering his speech in the House of commons. Not a bad effort on his part....but IMO he made one major error and he has let down badly the memory of millions of Irish men and women... he said "...emigration was for too long a recurring theme of the great Irish saga, from the horrors of the Great Famine to dark economic times in the 20th Centuary..."

IMO such a passing reference to the famine is a disgrace... I know it is in the past etc but I feel that he should of had the confidence and the decency to state clearly that the British were the cause...sure we have moved on but a historical fact is a fact. The British, every time a member of the Japanese Royal family visit the UK often ask why don't they apologise for
the treatment of British soldiers and civilians during WW2... I think we are long overdue such an apology and our outgoing Tshock should of done more today , regretfully he let us own.

Tony Blair already apologized a few years back. I think you'll find the cause was actually potato blight. The British reaction didn’t help.

[Calcio Jack]

Tony Blair already apologized a few years back. I think you'll find the cause was actually potato blight. The British reaction didn’t help.

Wow..talk about revisionism.... sure the potato crop failed because of blight... the fact that millions were then allowed to starve was the result of inaction by the British....

I must of missed Blair's apology.... but still feel that Bertie should of said something stronger...was not looking for him to cause conflict...sure he was able to mention murder of Aiery Neive and indeed referenced black and tan killings in Croker.... just feel he had an opportunity to point out that despite the fact that 3 million died in the famine and the cause was British inaction today as nations we have reached a position of great friendliness etc... I think if we are now mature "neighbours/friends" we should also have the maturity on both sides to recognise our chequered past and as part of doing that I feel he could of honoured the millions that died... it would of also acted as a refernce point for many British people who IMO have no idea as to the horrific severity of the famine and thus don't understand what was one of the main planks of motivation for generations of Irish men/women for their "dislike" of Britain... so we're all entitled to our opinion but for me I felt let down by Bertie... but sure why am I surprised when he is a man who appears to be hold more concern about the goings on in Old Trafford rather than the fact that in the so-called great sucessful Ireland to which he referred yesterday 1 in 5 of our citizens live in poverty and the gap between the rich and poor in Ireland has risen by 270% during the last 10 years ie the period during which Bertie has been Taoisceach .... so hopefully yesterday was another notch on Bertie's lap of honour before he retires to concentrate on his tax affairs.

[Ringo]

Wow..talk about revisionism.... sure the potato crop failed because of blight... the fact that millions were then allowed to starve was the result of inaction by the British....

I must of missed Blair's apology.... but still feel that Bertie should of said something stronger...was not looking for him to cause conflict...sure he was able to mention murder of Aiery Neive and indeed referenced black and tan killings in Croker.... just feel he had an opportunity to point out that despite the fact that 3 million died in the famine and the cause was British inaction today as nations we have reached a position of great friendliness etc... I think if we are now mature "neighbours/friends" we should also have the maturity on both sides to recognise our chequered past and as part of doing that I feel he could of honoured the millions that died... it would of also acted as a refernce point for many British people who IMO have no idea as to the horrific severity of the famine and thus don't understand what was one of the main planks of motivation for generations of Irish men/women for their "dislike" of Britain... so we're all entitled to our opinion but for me I felt let down by Bertie... but sure why am I surprised when he is a man who appears to be hold more concern about the goings on in Old Trafford rather than the fact that in the so-called great sucessful Ireland to which he referred yesterday 1 in 5 of our citizens live in poverty and the gap between the rich and poor in Ireland has risen by 270% during the last 10 years ie the period during which Bertie has been Taoisceach .... so hopefully yesterday was another notch on Bertie's lap of honour before he retires to concentrate on his tax affairs.

That was a party political broadcast on behalf of the rake up the past party. Maybe its time you moved on. You are using the famine & those deaths to further your political issues, shame on you.You obviously have an axe to grind with Ahern. Use the ballot box.

[Calcio Jack]

That was a party political broadcast on behalf of the rake up the past party. Maybe its time you moved on. You are using the famine & those deaths to further your political issues, shame on you.You obviously have an axe to grind with Ahern. Use the ballot box.

Sure do have an axe to grind.... the one about him letting down the memory of those who died in the famine and for that I make no apology ... But if you and others are happy with the content of what he said, good for you ,doesn't mean I have to be. So no need to tell me to move on or dare say I'm using the deaths of my and others forefathers to further my political issues... I'd of made the same comments if a similar speech was made by any member of any party.

[bennocelt]

[QUOTE=Ringo;686636]. I think you'll find the cause was actually potato blight.QUOTE]


and africans are dying of famine cause there is absolutely no food in africa, i suppose

[GavinZac]

and africans are dying of famine cause there is absolutely no food in africa, i suppose

And of course, the monetary and logistical realities of Ireland-Britain in the 1800s is absolutely the same as those in africa today. I suppose.

[SÓC]

And of course, the monetary and logistical realities of Ireland-Britain in the 1800s is absolutely the same as those in africa today. I suppose.

Not too different actually.

Economist (I think) at the time reported that the Irish famine had a positive effect on the British economic situation.

Exploitation of another country on a genocidal scale for economic gain...

[pete]

Will Bertie get a boost in the polls from the House of Commons speech?

[Erstwhile Bóz]

Will Bertie get a boost in the polls from the House of Commons speech?

He only gets a boost if he admits to serious ethical wrongdoing, so no.

[Ringo]

Sure do have an axe to grind.... the one about him letting down the memory of those who died in the famine and for that I make no apology ... But if you and others are happy with the content of what he said, good for you ,doesn't mean I have to be. So no need to tell me to move on or dare say I'm using the deaths of my and others forefathers to further my political issues... I'd of made the same comments if a similar speech was made by any member of any party.

Most of the Irish with money did nothing, what about them?

[Ringo]

Not too different actually.

Economist (I think) at the time reported that the Irish famine had a positive effect on the British economic situation.

Exploitation of another country on a genocidal scale for economic gain...

Would would America be the place it is now not for the irish Famine. Ameriaca probably gained most.