Match Programmes

[The Donie Forde]

Was there anything in the City programme this season that you enjoyed or seemed to work well?
What about the stat pieces - worth their place or not?

Donie

[BigDan]

A stats page like they used to have a few years back with a complete listing of the team for each game across the middle pages. You know the one I'm talking about I hope. The same column used to also give the subs that were used and the goalscorers. Don't know if it used to tell ya about bookings. The reason this would be good is for people who collect programmes. A few years later and you still have a full listing of who played in what games and who scored against who. Just an idea. The matchday programme at the cross isn't too bad and is probably one of the best in the country, some of the away ones are shocking. Not meant as a crticism but things can always be improved and I think any new manager has to do a column to keep us up to date with whats happening in the squad and views on other things EL.

[fonzi]

bohs have the best programs.
theyre big full colour and are informative.
city's ones are not any of the above
informative sometimes yes but is compleatly full of endorsements

[Pat MacGroyne]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by niamh

Originally posted by The Donie Forde





Would you buy one at City away games (Why/why not)?
Not ususually. Although I did at St Pats because of the unique nature of the content.

I collect programes and have been told that in about 20 or 30 years time that programe(Pats game) and the Bayern Munich game one are the ones most likely to increase in value.

A few ones with autographs ie 98 cup final with Daly or Coughlan signatures could be worth money too in the future!!!

I think the city programe is good but as I already stated and am glad that others agree the Jim Murphy and Noelle pages are crap.
Rico ( hopefully) might do manager notes even Mountfield done them why couldnt Gunther. The Stats page is one of the best pieces in the programe and is good for settling bets with drunk fathers ( mine tried to convince me it was Morley who scored at Musgrave v Bayern Munich)

[The Donie Forde]

Originally posted by fonzi
bohs have the best programs.
theyre big full colour and are informative.
city's ones are not any of the above
informative sometimes yes but is compleatly full of endorsements

Bohs is black and white throughout, doesn't even have a full colour cover!

Completely full of endorsements????

When did you last see one, fonzi?

Donie

[The Donie Forde]

Originally posted by Conor74

Well, I'm a cynic, so I don't think they're a good source of info. Again, the City one may well be value for money and clearly the producers put a lot of effort in.

If you were not a regular programme buyer, what would persuade you to become one?
A little less of the official propaganda and little more irreverance.

A big thing to be aware of here is that progs and zines are distinctly different. For either to become more llike the other more or less defeats the purpose.

If you argue that zines include rumours, you have to accept that properly edited programmes trade in facts - not hearsay. I'd say put the two together, any issue you choose to compare, and the prog will always contain more genuine information than the fanzine.

Anyway, I don't have any beef with fanzines other than that they are, by and large operating to an 'anti' formula and are fairly unimaginative. A lot of the stuff is recycled etc...

They are of course ad free, though you have to agree that the club requires the revenue received from advertising. Show me a magazine that doesn't have advertising...?

Irreverance, you say? Check out your back issues over the years and you'll see the City prog got stuck in a lot stronger into the rights and wrongs of Irish football than most fanzines ever do.

If your gonna be critical, as least be aware of the facts - and don't simply reply on pre-conceived notions.

Donie

[Casegrande]

Originally posted by The Donie Forde
Anyway, I don't have any beef with fanzines other than that they are, by and large operating to an 'anti' formula and are fairly unimaginative.

Can.
Worms.
Open.

[WeAreRovers]

Originally posted by The Donie Forde
Bohs is black and white throughout, doesn't even have a full colour cover!

Completely full of endorsements????

When did you last see one, fonzi?

Donie

Exactly! You can tell you lot never leave the Deep South, otherwise you would know that, yet again, Rovers programme won the Programme of the Year award.

Rovers programme is light years ahead of everyone elses, as the amount of awards it has won testifies. In fairness Cork City's effort is one of the better ones and I saw every club's programme last season.

KOH

[Casegrande]

The Shams fanzine is a lot better too!

[Gone Away]

Originally posted by The Donie Forde

Anyway, I don't have any beef with fanzines other than that they are, by and large operating to an 'anti' formula and are fairly unimaginative. A lot of the stuff is recycled etc...

Would you be part of a programme Donie, becasue that is a very pro programme?

I dnt think that the City zine is unimagintaive. I feel it tackles issues which dont necessarily pull the party line. Cant see how that is an anti formula, its merely stating facts, and maybe a few opinions. Its alot better than reading Spillanes rubbish anyway.

And im not against the programme either. There is some very good, very funny and very informative stuff involved in it. Okay, there is a lot of ads, but compared to some other clubs, its not as bad.

My only beef with the ads is the quality of them. Silly small little corner shops who cant be paying good money. Look at the Pats one and there are ads for ESB, Electrolux and other well recognized brand names. This isnt only the programmes problem, but a problem of CCFC as a whole. Look at the hoardings. Who cares about Duhallow Aluminium, some fishmarket, Goal. When last were these paid for. I reckon some of them have been there since the late 80s! Again look at Dublin, u will see hoardings for good brands like Guinness, Vodafone and plebty other brands as well ( im aware Guinness have onre at our ground, but u get my point).

All in all, and to get back to my original point, i dont see why the fanzine and the programme have to be swiping, im sure they complement each other quite well. I know i buy both every time anyway. One for a laugh and the other for some hard info.


anyway *yawn*!

[Verdi]

Originally posted by Gone Away
I feel it tackles issues which dont necessarily pull the party line. Cant see how that is an anti formula, its merely stating facts, and maybe a few opinions.

it seems to me that there are a lot of the older members/supporters of Cork City who view any sort of opinion as personal criticism and they hold a view that "how dare those feckers say or do anything against me"

people in the club like Noelle feeney think they own CCFC and the opinion of a supporter is seen as a threat.

i can see why truths in the fanzine would be seen by some in the club/supporters club as threats to their little positions. but if they are not prepared to listen to advise and suggestions from the supporter then their positions become untenable.

[dalo]

the fanzine isn´t bad but nothing too hot either.

when I first read it it was pretty dire I have to say littered with spelling mistakes, bad grammar and jokes that were obviously lifted off the internet.

it has however improved a lot in the last few issues but given that it´s viewpoint and style was based around the anti'gunther (yawn yawn) thing and was in all likehood written by the same people who regularly post here you have to wonder how representive of fans it were? a bit too undergradish just yet though, some parts reminded me of the college gazette


as for the club programme it was declined a lot I felt. that said it is still better than the rubbish produced by bohs and few others.

the best programme I have read was cobh's one a few years ago and pat's present one

[Colm]

Originally posted by The Donie Forde
I don't have any beef with fanzines other than that they are, by and large operating to an 'anti' formula and are fairly unimaginative.

Thats right yeah Donie! Stupid unimaginative fanzines. The programme is just soooooo imaginative.

[The Donie Forde]

Originally posted by Colm
Thats right yeah Donie! Stupid unimaginative fanzines. The programme is just soooooo imaginative.

Colm, I never claimed the programme was overly imaginative, but I do believe that the pro-fanzine people (?anti-programme) would wanna get a life and realise that a lot of what fanzines are about is hardly original. A lot of it is repetitive and done elsewhere...a lot of what is done in fanzines (generally) is just anti-stuff, or even insulting stuff - it's not particularly creative. Some of it is very funny, I agree, but, like it's nothing to write home about a lot of the time.
There have been fair criticisms of the programme in this thread, and a few that I would consider to be off the mark (just my opinion), but you know, fanzines have their flaws and drawbacks too, and their limits.
The original fanzines were great, they were of their time and filled a necessary gap in the culture, like punk if you like. But in many cases they have had their day or are merely attempting to emulate their predecessors... course that's just my opinion too!

Donie

[A face]

Originally posted by The Donie Forde
Colm, I never claimed the programme was overly imaginative

Phew, you had me sweatin' for a while there fella, it is good .... but you just couldn't lie about something like that

I do believe that the pro-fanzine people (?anti-programme)

Would you call them that ?? To coin a phrase "different horses and different courses" .... ** my take on that ** You cant compare, they both do different things, they aint in the same race, they appeal to different people, you do not put one against the other

would wanna get a life and realise that a lot of what fanzines are about is hardly original. A lot of it is repetitive and done elsewhere

Likewise sir ... alot of programs are repetitive and done elsewhere as with gardens books, and motorcar mags and even white water rafting manuals i'll have you know. I'll actually go so far as to say that if you have more than one piece of writing on a given topic then those pieces of writing will be about the same topic.

** Hold on there A face, think about what you are saying, if something is the same topic as something else then .... it .... is .... errr ..... the same ??? **

Sorry TDF .... can you explain your point again

...a lot of what is done in fanzines (generally) is just anti-stuff, or even insulting stuff - it's not particularly creative. Some of it is very funny, I agree, but, like it's nothing to write home about a lot of the time.

Not creative, depends .... i wont say you are making a sweaping statement but if you were to apologise for making one then i would accept it

Just anti stuff, if a fans opinion is anti stuff then there is nothing you can do about it, but i actually think it is OK, it being a fans opinion and all, remember, Fanzine = Dont sit on the fence.

There have been fair criticisms of the programme in this thread, and a few that I would consider to be off the mark (just my opinion),

And praise .... you'll have to agree. I have defended it at times and for good reason. Again ... advice is not always welcome, no matter what its intention ... i think we all know that.

but you know, fanzines have their flaws and drawbacks too, and their limits.

"A fanzine is only as good as the last letter it has recieved"

The original fanzines were great, they were of their time and filled a necessary gap in the culture, like punk if you like. But in many cases they have had their day or are merely attempting to emulate their predecessors... course that's just my opinion

Yeah, your opinion ... Kewl.

"You can never beat the originals" said your grand-dad trying to prise his jaws apart from his Werthers toffee, "you just cant beat them"

Again ... Fanzine are compiled with nothing but fans opinion, they may be repeating themselves but surely is that not fans repeating their concerns aswell. More often than not you wont find "if it aint broke then dont fix it" between their covers but that would only be because a fan could imagine something better for their club. In my opinion, where a program is PC, a fanzine is honest. Either way, we are only there for the game.

C'mon City

[James]

well said face
different things for diiferent markets
the programme ppl buy for team sheets and that kinda thing like the john o flynn exclusive they covered at the last game
the fanzine caters for a different market
i get both normally but for different reasons

[The Donie Forde]

Originally posted by James
well said face
different things for diiferent markets
the programme ppl buy for team sheets and that kinda thing like the john o flynn exclusive they covered at the last game
the fanzine caters for a different market
i get both normally but for different reasons

I agree, James, I agree. I started the thread asking what people thought about the programme - its strengths, weaknesses and so on. I didn't ask for a comparison with the fanzine and my (subsequent) comments were about fanzines in general, not any one in particular, and only because somebody else threw it on the table.
Further back the thread somebody drew that comparison and I pointed out that if either were to become more like the other only defeated the purpose.
I also stated that criticisms made about the programme were fair, but that some were not and I challenged some of those.
I think that many posters here have opinions about programmes that *may* be misinformed (because they don't buy it), and that fanzines *do* have flaws also. I think that's fair to say?
Incidentally, I also always get the fanzine when it's available at games.
My belief is that if you want to know more about City then you will find more about the club in the programme. I ask anyone to disprove that. Thus, IMO, if you claim to be a City fan, you should buy the programme. If you only want (which is your entitlement) to consider what is in the fanzine as being info about the club then go ahead. I'll lose no sleep over that...
Finally, as raised in my initial post, I stated that money raised by the programme goes directly to the club - where does money raised by fanzine sales go?

Donie

[dalo]

Originally posted by The Donie Forde
My belief is that if you want to know more about City then you will find more about the club in the programme. I ask anyone to disprove that. Thus, IMO, if you claim to be a City fan, you should buy the programme. If you only want (which is your entitlement) to consider what is in the fanzine as being info about the club then go ahead. I'll lose no sleep over that...
Finally, as raised in my initial post, I stated that money raised by the programme goes directly to the club - where does money raised by fanzine sales go?

Donie

Iam all for the club programme 100%. it is cerainly more important than any fanzine and given a choice I would buy the programme first and foremost. from my point of view it is the only link I can gain information in regard to the club and anorak I am I do like collecting them. the fanzine even in comparsion to other fanzines is only ok but fair play to the guys who write it ' even though their viewponts are certainly not those of the fans.

as for the programme i do feel it has declined in the last season. like the club itself I would prefer a greater association with the programme and the wider cork football public. the stats stuff is very good but less about the boys in green please and more about what the club are doing to become more community oriented. also a bit more colour wouldn´t go amiss. as i said before pat´s and rovers are excellant programmes.

nevertheless great credit is due to the writers and contributors

[The Donie Forde]

Originally posted by dalo


as for the programme i do feel it has declined in the last season. like the club itself I would prefer a greater association with the programme and the wider cork football public. the stats stuff is very good but less about the boys in green please and more about what the club are doing to become more community oriented. also a bit more colour wouldn´t go amiss. as i said before pat´s and rovers are excellant programmes.

nevertheless great credit is due to the writers and contributors

How do you feel it has declined, dalo? I'm genuinely interested to know what people feel are its down points.

I think the extra colour is a cost thing?

Donie

[dalo]

i do feel the look and feel of the programme is a small bit tired.

1. the manager should have a column in the programme as well as BL. the failure of gunther to do this was shocking
2. less anaylsis of the boys in green. perhaps a wider look at how the league race is faring' not just the bohs of the world but the athlones as well
3. print headings and so on -appearance needs to be looked at all times. any graphic design student would do the job at half the price and with twice the flair

4. what about a players piece where by a player tells us every week about his routine etc

5. tell us what city are doing to promote themsleves as a genuine club of the citizens of cork- this is vital. we should see ourselves as the team of the city and of the people

6. maybe even a slightly more fanzine approach to the programme. this can be acheived without undermining the intregity of the club and the programme. a interview with city´s more well known and less well known fans' i am sure creedon and son would like to write a few words

7. more focus on the underage teams and the players

8. a nostaglia piece on games past written from the perspective of fans who were there. a piece on famous players. we have a rich soccer past- promote it

9. more definite focus on the marketing of the club- aim higher than tony´s fine clothing

10. promote all the items that in their own way promote the club www.foot.ie, 4-5-1- together we are stronger.

11. more emphasis on promoting qulaity merchandise.

I wrote all thses off the top of my head' maybe it´s all b*** I don´t know. a difficult balance I know to be both inclusive, local and professional. however the programme is a vital link between club and fan and should be kept fresh at all times.

in fact the programme should reflect the ethos ofthe club and also promote it.