QuoteAnd sorry for basing a large part of my argument on it when I didn’t check it out. Even if it didn’t happen in Sweden still think it’s a decent model given where we are and need to be, but enough of that one ……Originally Posted by Diggs246
I cant see the Swedish stuff anywhere
I've no idea where I got that from?
its seems these mergers happen at clubs the whole time, but apologies Sweden is not on the list
List of football club mergers - Wikipedia
And sorry for basing a large part of my argument on it when I didn’t check it out. Even if it didn’t happen in Sweden still think it’s a decent model given where we are and need to be, but enough of that one ……
And sorry for basing a large part of my argument on it when I didn’t check it out. Even if it didn’t happen in Sweden still think it’s a decent model given where we are and need to be, but enough of that one ……
I think in many areas in life I think it's fair to say we should be more like Sweden
Pat Walker gave a great talk at Birkbeck College years ago when I was involved in their Sports Business faculty. I think there was a thread on it here way back "Debate on Youth Dev...". Pat is a Carlow-man, ex-Boez, who made a post-LOI name for himself as player and then manager in Sweden, and whose kids became footballers and one became a media star. Really engaging fella, great life story and a great talk...
This thread: https://foot.ie/threads/174697-Debat...Irish-FootballI think in many areas in life I think it's fair to say we should be more like Sweden
Pat Walker gave a great talk at Birkbeck College years ago when I was involved in their Sports Business faculty. I think there was a thread on it here way back "Debate on Youth Dev...". Pat is a Carlow-man, ex-Boez, who made a post-LOI name for himself as player and then manager in Sweden, and whose kids became footballers and one became a media star. Really engaging fella, great life story and a great talk...
A Celtic League or Irish-based EPL side will sort it all out.
All this talk about clubs joining together and the news this morning is that Bray and Cabinteely have held talks about a possible merger.
This post sums up quite a lot for me.
One failed experiment proves more than any alternative that has been provided. And it's quite a few examples that have been given. It's only Dublin that has a few teams within a single population centre. Everyone else generally represents a much larger area.
Many other countries with similar populations maintain a higher standard league for three main reasons. Facilities, funding and support. Each of the three is lacking in Ireland, and regularly held as a criticism of the league by people who don't attend the league, helping to underfund clubs which in turn curtails investment in facilities.
In terms of attendance, ~30,000 people would be seen as regular attendees of LOI in Ireland on average, or if you must, ~15,000 per game week. It's a long way from being the worst in European football, but always has room for improvement.
Getting to the group stage of Europa League is pretty much the equivalent of winning the world cup for a LOI side. A few million euro in the bank is unprecedented stuff for the majority of sides. Just because it's a drop in the ocean to top European sides, doesn't mean it's still a massive achievement for a smaller league. The LOI isn't alone in this regard.
And the standard isn't good, we know and recognise that ourselves, but maintaining a league equal in standard to League One in England, as suggested by several managers and players who have been involved in both, with a fraction of the budgets and facilities of clubs in League One, shows there's a hell of a lot of potential in football here if people were to get behind it.
https://kesslereffect.bandcamp.com/album/kepler - New music. It's not that bad.
Future Ireland manager? Can someone please explain Duff's big issue with the FAI? He said he'd swim the Irish Sea to work at his beloved Celtic but soon returned to embrace the great Stephen Kenny vision. Then he walks again, apparently because of the silly Videogate spat. Now he's vowed to "give his life" to Shelbourne which I welcome in the hope it curtails his turgid, monotone punditry. Duff's senior management journey is beginning to resemble that of his mentor Brian Kerr - all tip and no iceberg.
Great response. It really annoys me to see the merger/franchise football notion bandied about when it comes to Dublin teams. Talk of merging the top 4 teams is such a nonsense. All it would do is alienate the existing support base of those clubs, to be replaced by who exactly ? You think there are 5/6000 new supporters going to come out to watch these new Frankenstein clubs every week ? Good luck with that one. And without significant support of at least that volume facilities ain’t going to improve either. So all you will have done is kill two of the strongest teams in the league.
Out for a spell, got neglected, lay on the bench unselected.
I don't want to step on toes (well, not when the ref is looking anyway) but aren't many of these clubs, dearly loved by fans of course (and rightly so), legacies of when the LoI was a well supported league? Being much loved is great, having hsitory is great, but it doesn't make the club or the league viable. I'm not for sweeping them all away, but I thinkthe attachment might be overplayed.. to the point where maybe it becomes harmful to the development of the league?
Well the four best-supported teams in the league should, by definition, be its most viable clubs. More so if they've already been around 100 years. Those would be the last clubs you'd think need merging tbh
Fair enough point. I come at LoI from a strange angle to more regular LoI fans. Former shams supporter from the Milltown days and if I had to pick a team now it would be rovers, BUT for the past ten years, I really only watch LoI teams in Europe. This has me thinking about the league as a whole rather than thinking about it as a fan of any particular club. So it's easy for me to downplay fans' attachments to their clubs.
BTW, I followed a link you shared to UCD match programmes yesterday (think it was on this thread.. maybe not) and I noticed a banner that said something like 'Set Your match Calendar for 2017!' Do you run that site or know who does? That banner needs changing. Small thing to fix, but at the same time I can see visitors being put off by it (and others having their negative preconceptions reinforced).
Yes, the website is an issue alright. I've mentioned it, but I think we're effectively running off Twitter/Facebook now and the website is largely idle. I completely agree with your views on that alright.
I remember the days when it was a well-supported league. My family were Shamrock Rovers supporters and on an occasional Sunday I would be brought to Milltown to see a LOI game. I kid you not when I tell you you could not get into the ground for some games - it was so packed. Rovers v Waterford, Bohs, Cork or Shelbourne would see lines of supporters going down the street outside the turnstiles.
May parents tell me of how they'd go to Dalyer and Milltown in the 50s and they'd be packed. I started going in the late 70s and after a while you'd recognise all attendees' faces!
I vowed to leave this one alone, but stadia are a big point. Theoretically when Dalyer and Milltown had decent capacity there was potential for growth, but the growth potential of all LOI clubs is now effectively capped by the much smaller ground capacities. If (and here I reopen the proverbial can of worms) there were mergers or restructuring, I admit it would need to include and enable massive investment in stadia. Of course the status quo lobby will say this is not going to happen, but it’s definitely not going to happen without a restructure, but it just might if any new league model was underpinned by a credible business model, and a body that wasn’t the FAI. Something more akin to the Premier League.
I take the point about Dublin clubs being the best supported etc, but if we’re ruling out mergers, at the very least we need ground shares, and a more ambitious approach to accommodating a growing spectator base.
S
I suppose you’d include me as part of the “status quo” lobby (and I don’t even have any of their albums !) but I’d love to know what you ideas for restructuring are. Tinkering with the size of the league, an All Ireland league ? I’ve been seeing this debate for as long as I’ve been attending matches, and it keeps going round in circles. Merging teams I think is not going to work, for reasons set out above. Ground sharing has similar problems in my view. How many will follow Shels to Dalymount if it goes through ? Similarly, I’d imagine Pats would lose a lot of their base if they moved to Tallaght. Would these be replaced by new supporters ? I’d very much doubt it.
In truth there are no easy answers. The crux is how to make the game here more attractive to people. If people are expecting English Premier league standards, either on the field or off the field, then they are inevitably going to be disappointed. We have to sell the league as something that belongs to us, somewhere you can experience good standard live football on your doorstep. A lot of work needs to be put into community work to start to achieve this. Bohs have done great work in this regard to be fair to them, and seem to be reaping the rewards. We also need the media to be more engaged, to act like the games actually matter. There is a huge element, in my view, of, if you act like it’s important it becomes important. Then people want to attend. If we can crack the attendances issue, everything else will fall into place in my view. Whether we can do that is another question.
Oh, and by the way, Damien Duff, eh ?��
Last edited by TonyD; 10/11/2021 at 3:07 PM.
Out for a spell, got neglected, lay on the bench unselected.
I don’t think anyone is expecting to see Premier League standards in the LOI, but at the moment our teams do less well in Europe than Cyprus despite having nearly 10 times the population. I just we think we should be aiming to have a domestic league at least on a par with European countries with similar size populations, but we’re way behind. If we don’t improve the standard then we are unlikely to improve the performance of the international team by developing the talent base. That’s my concern, and frankly there are more people in Ireland interested in the international team than support the LOI.
Well, there's a lot of Russian money in Cyprus. Probably not all of it entirely legit. Maybe not the best comparison.
But yes, the LoI can do a lot better
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