Has there been a faster decline?

**OwlsFan** · 30/04/2007, 12:25 PM

Leeds United: from Champions League semi-final a few seasons back to Division One (old Division 3) next season ?

What is David O'Leary doing these days? Doesn't seem to get much punditry work.

**Lionel Ritchie** · 30/04/2007, 12:38 PM

At the risk of engaging in unbecoming snobbishness -in a few years we'll be back where we belong and Hull, Barnsley and Leicester will still be Hull, Barnsley and Leicester*.

Your team have been where we are now and I'm sure you'll agree it's not the end of the world. Leeds can bitch about it and feel sorry for themselves or they can start on the road back. I know which is more useful.

*Sincere congrats to all three are due as they went and got the results when they needed to -something we couldn't do all season long.

**pineapple stu** · 30/04/2007, 12:45 PM

Dunno - Shels' collapse from Champions' League qualification to bottom half of the First Division was fairly rapid!

Although on a serious note, it is probably the only comparison I can think of - the sheer fire sale of players, sudden change from good to rubbish and the club verging on bankruptcy brought on by their most successful spell ever on the field.

And to think they lost the play off final less than 12 months ago.

**Steve Bruce** · 30/04/2007, 1:50 PM

Charlton athletic seem to be going at a very rapid rate.

As did Forest, Wimbledon(Milton Keynes) Sheffield Wednesday.

**Stuttgart88** · 30/04/2007, 2:08 PM

I've always liked Leeds as a club but I hate Bates & Wise so much I've little sympathy for them now. Nasty characters.

**shakermaker1982** · 30/04/2007, 2:20 PM

Having watched a lot of Forest games since their fall to the 'third' division I can tell you now Leeds are gonna struggle big time next season. Every club who will visit Elland Rd will see it as their FA Cup final and up their game by 10%.

I don't have much sympathy for em. Didn't they buy Fowler for a shed load (8 million?) only to let him go + continue to keep paying his wages! Crazy.

**OwlsFan** · 30/04/2007, 3:29 PM

Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

Charlton athletic seem to be going at a very rapid rate.

As did Forest, Wimbledon(Milton Keynes) Sheffield Wednesday.

Wednesday playing a Champions League semi-final. Darn, must have been abroad when that happened!!

Actually, if it weren't for Jack Charlton, Wednesday would have dropped to the 4th division.

Yes, Forest is a reasonable comparison but their glory days weren't just a few years ago.

Apart from counting his money, as I say, what's O'Leary up to?

**kingdom hoop** · 30/04/2007, 3:45 PM

Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

I don't have much sympathy for em. Didn't they buy Fowler for a shed load (8 million?) only to let him go + continue to keep paying his wages! Crazy.

There were many stories of largesse from that time, £10,000 goldfish and offering Seth Johnson something like 4/5 times the expected salary spring to mind. Idiots

Spare a thought, neutral or otherwise, for Bradford City who got relegated to the fourth tier this weekend after three relegations in six years. Not quite Leeds proportions but paying Bentio Carbone £40,000 a week was cripplingly imprudent as well.

Swings and roundabouts. Fulham, Wigan have come from nowhere. The common constituent? Money, money, money.

I'm trying to think of similar cataclysmic episodes on the continent. But none are springing to mind. Is it the competitiveness in England's lower leagues or money playing too important a role? Or of course maybe I've missed a glaring case study or two.

**jebus** · 30/04/2007, 4:19 PM

Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

At the risk of engaging in unbecoming snobbishness -in a few years we'll be back where we belong and Hull, Barnsley and Leicester will still be Hull, Barnsley and Leicester*.

Your team have been where we are now and I'm sure you'll agree it's not the end of the world. Leeds can bitch about it and feel sorry for themselves or they can start on the road back. I know which is more useful.

All depends what Leeds do during the summer in my opinion. Wise/Poyet management hasn't worked out and they should be shown the door, Bates should be as well, given that he drove a perfectly capable manager in Kevin Blackwell out the door so his buddies could have a job. Can't see ye losing too many good players, given that ye don't have any!

All that being said, if Bates sticks to his guns (and he probably will) then I'm not sure Wise will be able to get Leeds back up on the first attempt at least

**4tothefloor** · 30/04/2007, 7:06 PM

Leeds need to put their money in to a top manager with a proven track record at winning promotions. Pi$$ing against the wind with Wise and co. If they stick with what they've got now, forget about it. Unfortunately for them that turd of a human being Ken Bates has full control at the club, so in a spot of bother I'd say......

**superfrank** · 30/04/2007, 9:38 PM

A lot of clubs like Bradford, Wendesday and Forest were undoubtedly affected by the collapse of ITV Digital (?) in 2001 or 2002, iirc. That was big money for the lower league teams like the aforementioned who had not long before dropped down from the Premiership so would've been expecting, perhaps unrealistically in Bradford's case anyway, to bounce back. That's probably what got them, imo.

Though Leeds just had a spendthrift manager and a chairman dumb enough to bankroll him.

**kingdom hoop** · 30/04/2007, 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by superfrank

Though Leeds just had a spendthrift manager and a chairman dumb enough to bankroll him.

You're spot on about ITV Digital, and I think the parachute payments have been improved of late also meaning repeat disasters shouldn't happen as readily.

As for the dishonourable Mr.Ridsdale he's come out with a few comments today;

Looking back, I would do things differently. I would challenge the manager more, run things tighter. I think I said 'yes' too often to the manager.

That was your job Peter, and were you not the one with half the Pacific Ocean's fish in your office?

He then had the gall to say;

I actually believe that had I been allowed to stay around - and it was my decision to go, but clearly the pressure was such from our supporters that I couldn't take any more - I don't believe that Leeds would be in the situation they are in now." So you're a good saver but a reckless spender? Peter 'the walking paradox' Ridsdale.

There's a bleak future in store. Though they may do one thing right by going into administration in the next week, as the ten point reduction will be enforced for this season. Whereas if they wait until after the last game it will be carried over to next season.

**Risteard** · 01/05/2007, 12:28 AM

Originally Posted by kingdom hoop

.

I'm trying to think of similar cataclysmic episodes on the continent. But none are springing to mind.

Napoli.

**dcfcsteve** · 01/05/2007, 12:31 AM

Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

As did Forest, Wimbledon(Milton Keynes) Sheffield Wednesday.

There was nothing rapid about Wimbledon's decline, - though the decline of the Milton keynes Dons (a separate but related club) has indeed been faster.

As Wimbledon, the team got relegated from the Premiership in 2000. In 2001 and 2002 they narrowly missed out on making the promotion play-offs - so certainly no sharp descent there.

After that, the plan to move the club to Milton Keynes surfaced, it went into Administration and the fan-base deserted it in droves. Since then, under its new guise, the MK Dons have thankfulyl suffered a heady slide down the tables - relegated to league 1 in 2004 and League 2 in 2006. Sadly, though, they are looking strong in the promotion play-offs for this year....

MK Dons and its supporters reached agreement with AFC Wimbledon and their supporters in October of last year for the history and artefacts from Wimbledon FC (including the miniature FA Cup) to be handed-over to the Borough of Merton (in which Wimbledon is). This was widely viewed as final recognition from MK Dons that they were a separate club from Wimbledon FC.

So a big slide for the Franchise, but not for Wimbledon FC.

**BohsPartisan** · 01/05/2007, 8:19 AM

Marseille, Juvé, Shels - but all those were through sanctions not on the field collapse.

**OwlsFan** · 01/05/2007, 9:02 AM

Originally Posted by kingdom hoop

Swings and roundabouts. Fulham, Wigan have come from nowhere. The common constituent? Money, money, money.

Fulham haven't come from nowhere. They have nearly always been there or thereabouts as regards the top flight. I do recall a FA Cup Final appearance in the not too distant past. However, I do regard clubs like Wigan and Reading as keeping Wednesday's seat warm until they return to their rightful place among the also-rans of the Premiership

Those two cup final appearances in 1993 seem a long time ago now.

**superfrank** · 01/05/2007, 9:18 AM

Originally Posted by OwlsFan

Fulham haven't come from nowhere. They have nearly always been there or thereabouts as regards the top flight.

Not really. Their recent history suggests otherwise. In 1996 they finished 17th in the bottom division. And in 1997 they were promoted from the bottom division alongside Wigan who won it. And apparently when they were promoted to the Premiership in 2001 it was the first time they'd played in the top flight since 1968.

Sorry for being a *******, it's just I remeber hearing something along those lines before.

**kingdom hoop** · 01/05/2007, 9:31 AM

Originally Posted by OwlsFan

Fulham haven't come from nowhere. They have nearly always been there or thereabouts as regards the top flight. I do recall a FA Cup Final appearance in the not too distant past.

They were in Division 4 when Al Fayed took control less than ten years ago, and hadn't been in the top flight for forty years when they won promotion a few years ago.

**kingdom hoop** · 01/05/2007, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by Risteard

Napoli.

Great to see they are in with a shout of promotion back to Serie A, seven games left and in second place, behind Juvé who look comfortable.

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

Marseille, Juvé, Shels - but all those were through sanctions not on the field collapse.

Likewise Perugia. But they got royally screwed by being disbanded, just deserves for that chairman. As ever it's the fans that suffer most though.

Back to on the field relegations, Oxford United have been notably bad. Second tier to fifth between 1998 and 2006. Trivia on Oxford is that they have the ignominious honour of being the only club to have won a major trophy, League Cup in 1987, to be relegated from the Football League.

**Schumi** · 01/05/2007, 10:54 AM

How about Foggia? I remember them being in Serie A in the mid-nineties when they were involved in loads of high-scoring games and they were in Serie C2 (fourth level) at the turn of the century.