Irish Sunderland fan here. Debate very interesting

[Billy Lord]

I wouldn't regard myself as a mercenary quite frankly, if I hopped between clubs then yes I would be.

Clubs like Forest have support well outside the city and county boundries I know the people I go to games with come from all over England, there are also Norwegian, Swedish and Belgian Branches to name three.

It still all comes down to personal choice and people having the freedom to spend money as they see fit. Being dictated to and told your lesser by certain supporters makes absolutely no difference to me or the other thousands who support clubs outside this juristiction.

As I said before its no different to the GAA Taliban having a go at soccer supporters for chosing a foreign game over THE national sport.

Association Football has been played in Ireland for longer than the GAA games so it could hardly be described as 'foreign'. I grew up in a football family and, if anything, gaelic games were 'foreign' to me. Besides, the GAA picks and chooses what it calls 'foreign' as golf, American football, boxing, basketball and - as Thomas Davis had on Paddy's Day in their clubhouse - American Wrestling all seem to be okay, but football and rugby union are verboten.
I'm not knocking you for supporting a football club, I just can't understand why you'd place your loyalties in somewhere as obscure as Nottingham rather than at home. What's the point? It's not about 'spending money' either, as you couldn't equate supporting a football club with buying a book or a pair of jeans.
There's a dichotomy at the heart of your support for Forest that cannot be dismissed as mere consumerism given that the club isn't up to much these days. If you're making a choice, how come you continue to make such a poor one? And why support a rubbish English club when there are plenty of rubbish Irish clubs, some much better than Forest, that you could support on a weekly basis? There must be more to your support than something as bland and meaningless as 'choice'.
For example: if England are playing Ireland, who would you be up for? Would it be your 'choice' to support one over the other?
If football isn't about a sense of place and identity then it's just a game. Maybe that's the difference between you and I. To me, Shamrock Rovers is a way of life and not a matter of choice.
You chose Forest; I am Rovers.

[jebus]

Association Football has been played in Ireland for longer than the GAA games so it could hardly be described as 'foreign'. I grew up in a football family and, if anything, gaelic games were 'foreign' to me. Besides, the GAA picks and chooses what it calls 'foreign' as golf, American football, boxing, basketball and - as Thomas Davis had on Paddy's Day in their clubhouse - American Wrestling all seem to be okay, but football and rugby union are verboten.
I'm not knocking you for supporting a football club, I just can't understand why you'd place your loyalties in somewhere as obscure as Nottingham rather than at home. What's the point? It's not about 'spending money' either, as you couldn't equate supporting a football club with buying a book or a pair of jeans.
There's a dichotomy at the heart of your support for Forest that cannot be dismissed as mere consumerism given that the club isn't up to much these days. If you're making a choice, how come you continue to make such a poor one? And why support a rubbish English club when there are plenty of rubbish Irish clubs, some much better than Forest, that you could support on a weekly basis? There must be more to your support than something as bland and meaningless as 'choice'.
For example: if England are playing Ireland, who would you be up for? Would it be your 'choice' to support one over the other?
If football isn't about a sense of place and identity then it's just a game. Maybe that's the difference between you and I. To me, Shamrock Rovers is a way of life and not a matter of choice.
You chose Forest; I am Rovers.

Altogether now everyone.....*slow hand clap*

A couple of points there, who in Ireland are better than Forest? The standard of the league this year is muck, pretty much everyone around here agrees to that, and Forest aren't that bad a League One side, one that could easily be a Championship side by next week.

If football is solely about a place and identity than surely there is a point to be made as regards what identity Ireland as a whole has taken on today? We live in a country that is British in culture, so surely it could be argued that since we grew up in this culture that it doesn't take much of a leap to start supporting a British football team?

When you ask if you're making a choice how come you make such a poor one, well that's really just your opinion, most football fans in Ireland think we make a poor choice every week we go to watch our respective teams

I'm assuming that this Forest supporter initially started watching them when they were a 1st Division/Premiership team? If so then I think he should be applauded fro sticking with them through the rough patches, surely thats the hallmark of someone who isn't a 'barstooler'? For my part I've been a Sheffield Wednesday supporter for 15 years now, a Limerick supporter for 5, would it not be idiotic of me to say that I've dropped my support for Wednesday, just because I go to Limerick games more frequently? Up until two years I would have probably said that I still support Wednesday more than Limerick, thats changed because of the obvious reason that I watch Limerick more, enjoy the atmosphere (especially on away trips) and talk about Limerick's fortunes more, but I wouldn't go around castigating anyone for choosing to support a British club, especially as I still watch English football probably the most of any other country in this world, and I still rank myself as a Sheffield Wednesday supporter

[Mental Man]

Just my two pence worth here, on local radio this morning there was a DJ on from Sunderland talking to our own local Dj and "our" link with this foreign club is Daryl Murphy, now i wish Daryl well dont get me wrong but even down here there is people going around wearing foreign jerseys and some with Murphy on the back of them.
There was a good few Blues heads texted in saying If these Gob****es spent their money on home clubs instead of UK clubs then the league would be the better for it , 1 particluar guy who texted in said to the DJ " who do u want to see - a successful Blues or a successful Sunderland. "
I have no time for foreign clubs, f**k it if you cant support your own local team then u aint a footie supporter,supporting your local club is about who you are, nothing compares as we all know in going week in week out around the countryside following "your" team and when you do that you can proudly call yourself a soccer supporter!

[The Dublin Red]

Association Football has been played in Ireland for longer than the GAA games so it could hardly be described as 'foreign'. I grew up in a football family and, if anything, gaelic games were 'foreign' to me. Besides, the GAA picks and chooses what it calls 'foreign' as golf, American football, boxing, basketball and - as Thomas Davis had on Paddy's Day in their clubhouse - American Wrestling all seem to be okay, but football and rugby union are verboten.
I'm not knocking you for supporting a football club, I just can't understand why you'd place your loyalties in somewhere as obscure as Nottingham rather than at home. What's the point? It's not about 'spending money' either, as you couldn't equate supporting a football club with buying a book or a pair of jeans.
There's a dichotomy at the heart of your support for Forest that cannot be dismissed as mere consumerism given that the club isn't up to much these days. If you're making a choice, how come you continue to make such a poor one? And why support a rubbish English club when there are plenty of rubbish Irish clubs, some much better than Forest, that you could support on a weekly basis? There must be more to your support than something as bland and meaningless as 'choice'.
For example: if England are playing Ireland, who would you be up for? Would it be your 'choice' to support one over the other?
If football isn't about a sense of place and identity then it's just a game. Maybe that's the difference between you and I. To me, Shamrock Rovers is a way of life and not a matter of choice.
You chose Forest; I am Rovers.

Your point about the GAA would get my agreement however the argument you make is similar to the narrowness that sections of the GAA support hold. For them you are a lesser irish person as you've chosen to support a foreign game. I don't agree with it but that viewpoint exists.

However your views of me I see as being exactly the same and another reason why the LOI may unfortunately remain small. You make the point that my club is "rubbish" and why do I stick with them. You are now beginning to sound like a barstooler. I hear this from Man U and Arsenal fans, as Forest are rubbish why stick with them??? I've explained in previous posts why I support Forest, in summary it began at 12 years of age in 1988 and influenced by Brian Clough, Robin Hood, my Grandad and a new schoolbag! Once I began making the trips over I was hooked and although I was a LOI season ticket holder during my teens both experiences could not be compared. I'm sure its different for others but that is MY choice.

The England V Ireland point is ridiculous. I support Ireland but I don't hate England for that matter.

As for Shamrock Rovers, is it for Dublin people only then? or Tallaght people? or what?

I'm going to the City Ground for the last match of the season (hopefully) I cannot wait to go and the day will be a total buzz from pre-match pints to a 30,000 crowd! The fact remains English football is exciting and for many of us we are addicted. In what other league in the World could a 3rd division football club command a 30,000 gate?

[The Dublin Red]

Just my two pence worth here, on local radio this morning there was a DJ on from Sunderland talking to our own local Dj and "our" link with this foreign club is Daryl Murphy, now i wish Daryl well dont get me wrong but even down here there is people going around wearing foreign jerseys and some with Murphy on the back of them.
There was a good few Blues heads texted in saying If these Gob****es spent their money on home clubs instead of UK clubs then the league would be the better for it , 1 particluar guy who texted in said to the DJ " who do u want to see - a successful Blues or a successful Sunderland. "
I have no time for foreign clubs, f**k it if you cant support your own local team then u aint a footie supporter,supporting your local club is about who you are, nothing compares as we all know in going week in week out around the countryside following "your" team and when you do that you can proudly call yourself a soccer supporter!

That's your perogative but with attitudes like this those interested in football will remain in the bars and packing them out when the Champions League is on!

Sell the LOI to all football people, its a great product but don't make it exclusive, if people have an English club respect it and don't turn into GAA style bigots.

[Fingal hoop]

depends if a big club got relegated 2 divisions

[Erstwhile Bóz]

As for Shamrock Rovers, is it for Dublin people only then? or Tallaght people? or what?

Rovers is for any and all people who want to KOH, regardless of geographical persuasion, as long as they are not well in the head and they don't bring mandarins and satsumas to the match.

[BohsPartisan]

depends if a big club got relegated 2 divisions

One division is OK then?

[NY Hoop]

The internet is a breeding ground for every lunatic and this is hardly representative.

Have you ever seen the Irish section on **********? Paints a sizeable number of Irish as racist scum.

Some good points made there by the real fans. Because of the idiot paddies who ignore their own league going over in their droves like sheep the prices have gone up and real fans there cant get tickets.

Bottom line you're not from nottingham so you can never have any identity with them. It's got nothing to do with narrow mindedness, bigotry or who is the better Irishman.

KOH

[passinginterest]

Some good points made there by the real fans. Because of the idiot paddies who ignore their own league going over in their droves like sheep the prices have gone up and real fans there cant get tickets.

Bottom line you're not from nottingham so you can never have any identity with them. It's got nothing to do with narrow mindedness, bigotry or who is the better Irishman.

KOH

By that logic the famous Wexford fan who goes to every Shelbourne game is not a real fan and never will be. It's a flawed logic.

I spend an awful lot of time in Tallaght and for the last few years I planned on buying a Rovers season ticket when the stadium gets finished. It still might happen but you make me have doubts. I will probably live in Tallaght in the long run as that's where my girlfriend of the last 4 years is from. Am I not allowed to support your club?

[osarusan]

Bottom line you're not from nottingham so you can never have any identity with them.

KOH

How do/would you feel about Rovers fans who were not from Dublin, and didnt have any link with the team, but, when growing up, liked what they saw of Rovers on the tv/news, and followed them?

[NY Hoop]

By that logic the famous Wexford fan who goes to every Shelbourne game is not a real fan and never will be. It's a flawed logic.

I spend an awful lot of time in Tallaght and for the last few years I planned on buying a Rovers season ticket when the stadium gets finished. It still might happen but you make me have doubts. I will probably live in Tallaght in the long run as that's where my girlfriend of the last 4 years is from. Am I not allowed to support your club?

Wrong. My point is that he's not english so why support an english club? I couldnt care less where in Ireland you're from if you support Rovers. Even from limerick

You're more than welcome to support us when we get into Tallaght.

BTW see the star today for news that should blow the Thomas Bigots theory on the pitch out of the water.

KOH

[passinginterest]

Wrong. My point is that he's not english so why support an english club? I couldnt care less where in Ireland you're from if you support Rovers. Even from limerick

You're more than welcome to support us when we get into Tallaght.

BTW see the star today for news that should blow the Thomas Bigots theory on the pitch out of the water.

KOH

You said he's not from Nottingham in the original post. Where do you draw the line? I just think taking such an idealistic viewpoint is likely to drive people away rather than attract more badly needed support.

[paul_oshea]

he doesnt passinginterest, he never debates with the point in hand. just circles round it.

[The Dublin Red]

Some good points made there by the real fans. Because of the idiot paddies who ignore their own league going over in their droves like sheep the prices have gone up and real fans there cant get tickets.

Bottom line you're not from nottingham so you can never have any identity with them. It's got nothing to do with narrow mindedness, bigotry or who is the better Irishman.

KOH

Absolute rubbish.

So you think on the bais of a few fools on the internet that the Irish have driven up prices and keep the real fans out Are you having a laugh? What evidence have you for this?

Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal certainly get the tourist fans who come from all OVER the world. I never though a country with 4 million people could dominate the national support of a country with 50 million.

Bottom line is you're narrow minded and have more in common with the GAA taliban than you think. I'm a Dublin GAA supporter do I look down my nose at you for supporting foreign games. No off course I don't I respect your views.

To suggest I can never have any identity with Nottingham Forest is patronising in the extreme. What next Ireland for the Irish? I suppose you object to foreign players in the LOI? or foreign supporters? I know where my loyalty lies and the fact that only someone from Dublin could question my "identity" is laughable.

[Erstwhile Bóz]

Some good points made there by the real fans. Because of the idiot paddies who ignore their own league going over in their droves like sheep the prices have gone up and real fans there cant get tickets.

Bottom line you're not from nottingham so you can never have any identity with them. It's got nothing to do with narrow mindedness, bigotry or who is the better Irishman.

KOH

But if people in Meath or Lucan or wherever support Bohs and the Bohs family includes them and they can share the Bohs "identity", and people from the Northside or outside Dublin support Rovers and the Rovers family includes them and they can share the Rovers "identity", is it not the stark reality that since the '70s English clubs' "identities", shared by all their fans, include international fan clubs?

Rovers isn't an Irishtown/Ringsend club for working-class Irishtown/Ringsend people any more. When it was founded the idea of the club one day fighting tooth and nail for a support base in the then sleepy country village of Tallaght would have been preposterous. Things change. Over the course of your history lots of other types of supporters have become part of what Rovers is. I'm sure there's one or two supporters who still live in their grandads' houses on Shamrock Avenue who think that they're the only ones who can rightfully call themselves supporters but the simple fact is that it's not their club any more.

Part of what you support, as a Rovers man, includes some hypothetical gloryhunting gobsheen in deepest, darkest Longford whose brudder had digs out near Milltown and saw you win all round you in the '80s and wrote letters home about it that the parish priest would read out for the family, the mammy subsequently knitting him a "Newtown Forbes Hoops" scarf. That's part of your identity.

Liverpool is no longer solely for the people of Anfield, United no longer a club for Salford. There is a well established foreign element to their identity, just as there is a well established identity in Ireland that consists of meeting your mates and arguing about English football and probably going over to the matches once in a while.

Just as there is an established identity in singing cringeworthy rip-offs of English fans' songs at Irish football matches and aping their hooligan escapades. Where do these wonderful, pure, native Irish, real football fans get these tunes from, I wonder?

[BohsPartisan]

Bottom line is you're narrow minded and have more in common with the GAA taliban than you think. I'm a Dublin GAA supporter do I look down my nose at you for supporting foreign games. No off course I don't I respect your views.

We've already pointed out that association football has been on this island longer than the Gaelic code, but its not about foreign sports or national sports its about supporting something you have a genuine connection with, something that you have the ability to pe part of week in week out. I follow Everton as my second club but I can't go their every week so you don't become part of it. To paraphrase Billy, I follow Everton but I am part of Bohs. Thats where the difference lies. As you said you support the Dublin GAA team. Why not support Kerry, Armagh or Meath?

[jebus]

Some good points made there by the real fans. Because of the idiot paddies who ignore their own league going over in their droves like sheep the prices have gone up and real fans there cant get tickets.

Did you just say there was some good points made on ********** Now I know you're a bit of a fool and all Hoop, but jesus christ

[osarusan]

To paraphrase Billy, I follow Everton but I am part of Bohs. Thats where the difference lies.

But thats only the difference lies for you. That encapsulates how you see the difference in your support for Bohs and Everton.

NY Hoop is saying, that by virtue of his not being from Nottingham, it is impossible for DublinRed to feel the same affinity as he would with a side he sees week in and out.

There is no way that NY Hoop, or you, can make that statement for him.

[NY Hoop]

Did you just say there was some good points made on ********** Now I know you're a bit of a fool and all Hoop, but jesus christ

Jesus man I didnt mean ********** I meant the original link to football365.com.

Forest fan if you think it's just "a few fools on the internet" who think like that good luck. Cant help what you think but you're wrong.

Erstwhile Irish clubs should be supported not ignored by Irish people but thanks for the history and geography lesson.

Passinginterest do you honestly think that because of what I or others think will drive people away from the league?

KOH