Irish Sunderland fan here. Debate very interesting

[Jerry The Saint]

The debate is about Keane v McCaerthy

It is

Maybe you got mixed up with another thread from five years ago...?

[Calcio Jack]

It is

Maybe you got mixed up with another thread from five years ago...?

I should of stated more clearly (guess I was victim of a McCarthy moment of poor commms) this part of the debate is about Keane v McCarthy

[Calcio Jack]

yeah like collins keane is a traitor too -good comparison

Well, you know what they say one Blueshirts hero is a Shinners traitor..

[Fingal hoop]

Well, you know what they say one Blueshirts hero is a Shinners traitor..

[TonyD]

Collins v Dev to ruin another good thread ?

[OneRedArmy]

I should of stated more clearly (guess I was victim of a McCarthy moment of poor commms) this part of the debate is about Keane v McCarthy

Isn't that one of the banned list of topics on here (along with a certain British football club)?

If it isn't it should be at this stage.

[cavan_fan]

Slightly off topic here, What annoys me about Sunderland is hearing their results on the radio and not hearing the other Championship scores. Or when Setanta show a EPL game @ 3.00, Sunderland's score pops up in the corner and no other Championship score. I find it embarrassing, Everyone in Ireland is all of a sudden a Sunderland supporter, joke. Its like every Irish person is suppose to support Celtic, well, I do not.

To be honset as a fan of the Irish team I am more interested in the Sunderland scores than most other chapionship ones. I suspect the interest is 20% Irish players, 30% Quinn and 50% in Keane. On the other hand I dont support Sunderland any more than I do Ipswich, Reading, Wolves or other teams with significant Irsh players.

[NY Hoop]

Cash rich ??? as I mentioned he spent a net £1.1m on players having inherited a the remenants of a squad put together by McCarthy that managed 15 points last season and was languishing in 23rd spot when he took over.

The debate is about Keane v McCaerthy and Colchesters managers performance has nothing to do with that but if you want to rate it fair enough.

The article said the team went for RnR... however the point is McCarthy in advance of going to Saipan didn't discuss that option with his captain, also when they got to Saipan they were expected to train on the dangerous (remember Finnan damaged his ankle on it) and of course the skips with the training gear hadn't arrived.... so if I was a player I'd understand from that,that I was supposed to be there to train.... and it was that complete failure by McCarthy to communicate that was one of the roots of why Keane got frustrated... still good ol' Mick played the part of the boozy sterotype "we're here for a laugh Paddy" to perfection , instead of like Keane believing we had the ability to win the World Cup and wanting to intensly focus on that. difference is Keane knows when to act the maggot and play the "sterotype Paddy" ie his highly lucrative (money to charity btw) apperence in the Walker ad as against McCarthy doing it at a crucial time and ruining our chance of winning the W/C.

McCarthy's problem I suspect was that he recognised in Keane a vastly more brilliant and committed individual than him and instead of being able to manage and focus all Keanes powers for the good of the team instead because of his lack of self belief and self doubt issues ended up getting rid of Keane to try and fool himself and the world that he was in comand .When people call Keane a traitor it makes me laugh as the real traitor was McCarthy because of his cowardice of been unable to accept he made a mistake and acknowledge that to Keane... IMO McCarthy is to Keane what Dev Valera was to Collins except this time around our hero has survived and prospered despite been shot in the back and his nemisis has been shown for what he is a "second rate manager" destined to trawl the backwaters of the lower divisions.

ps... maybe it's time to listen to my missus and "get over it" !!! but ther'd be no fun in that

It is amazing even after 5 years how you can still believe this rubbish. Is your missus deaf by this stage?

KOH

[Calcio Jack]

It is amazing even after 5 years how you can still believe this rubbish. Is your missus deaf by this stage?

KOH

She's neither deaf nor blind like some who are still in denial about both the facts and McCarthys role

[NY Hoop]

Another thing I don't understand about the English football phenomena is how Irish fans can feel part of the same cultural group as the local fans.

Eg having gone to uni with 2 mad mackems, hating Newcastle United and Geordies is a core tenet of who they are and the really do hate them. How can someone from Ireland who goes to the odd match ever get close enough to even understand this?

Similarly, I always find it amusing when an Irish Man U/Liverpool fan announces their dislike for Scousers/Mancs. Why do they dislike them? Because they feel they have to? Totally ridiculous really when you think about it.

Totally agree with you there. You can hear them in pubs referring to an english team as we and us etc.

True story: A friend went for a cure sat lunch time in a certain northside hostelry unaware that the premiersh1t was on that early. At the bar ordering where he stumbles upon a debate between 2 locals. One was slagging the other over who was the better manure fan!

Rainman 1 was saying that he was a real fan cos he had been to sold trafford twice this year and rainman 2 hadnt

Anyway things got heated enough for one rainman to chuck his pint at the other mensa candidate and for the 2 savants to get thrown out.

The sunderland manager is a traitor but he is joined by legions here.

KOH

[NY Hoop]

She's neither deaf nor blind like some who are still in denial about both the facts and McCarthys role

You and facts?

KOH

[Red&White]

Totally agree with you there. You can hear them in pubs referring to an english team as we and us etc.

True story: A friend went for a cure sat lunch time in a certain northside hostelry unaware that the premiersh1t was on that early. At the bar ordering where he stumbles upon a debate between 2 locals. One was slagging the other over who was the better manure fan!

Rainman 1 was saying that he was a real fan cos he had been to sold trafford twice this year and rainman 2 hadnt

Anyway things got heated enough for one rainman to chuck his pint at the other mensa candidate and for the 2 savants to get thrown out.

The sunderland manager is a traitor but he is joined by legions here.

KOH

In Derry I believe there have been fights between rival groups of Liverpool and Man United supporters.

I'm sorry, I'll just repeat that again, let the words sink in...

In Derry I believe there have been fights between rival groups of Liverpool and Man United supporters.

[OneRedArmy]

Graham Kavanagh said on last nights Off the Ball that there were 4,000 Irish Sunderland fans at a recent home game.

World class bandwagoning, do we get in the Guinness Book of Records for it?

Re Red & White's comments above, I believe this is a regular occurance now after Liverpool v Man U games in Derry. This in what is still supposedly a Republican city. Trying to explain it to foreigners and seeing them try to get their heads around it shows it up for what it is.

[galwayhoop]

yep, i met a true as life lad from Finglas one night in Phibsboro only for him to tell me
'Well I'm a scouser but I think Keane was right and that pr1ck McCarthy is only a mug!' when I polietly informed him that he was not indeed a scouser and could legitimately only claim to be from Finglas, Dublin or Ireland he looked at me as if I were possessed!!!

[gustavo]

yep, i met a true as life lad from Finglas one night in Phibsboro only for him to tell me
'Well I'm a scouser but I think Keane was right and that pr1ck McCarthy is only a mug!' when I polietly informed him that he was not indeed a scouser and could legitimately only claim to be from Finglas, Dublin or Ireland he looked at me as if I were possessed!!!

You should have told him that you werent aware that Tranmere fans usually bore such resentment towards Roy Keane and that it was good of him to ignore such tendencies this time.

[NY Hoop]

Graham Kavanagh said on last nights Off the Ball that there were 4,000 Irish Sunderland fans at a recent home game.

World class bandwagoning, do we get in the Guinness Book of Records for it?

Re Red & White's comments above, I believe this is a regular occurance now after Liverpool v Man U games in Derry. This in what is still supposedly a Republican city. Trying to explain it to foreigners and seeing them try to get their heads around it shows it up for what it is.

Same sh1t in Dublin. Complete embarrassment. When blackburn were the rage here one blackburn "fan" was killed by his manure loving friend outside a pub.

KOH

[red bellied]

You should have told him that you werent aware that Tranmere fans usually bore such resentment towards Roy Keane and that it was good of him to ignore such tendencies this time.

Dont think they class themselves as scousers across the river in Birkenhead

[wiseman]

This is great an eight page thread (mostly on topic, I skipped 6&7) started by a "real Irish-based Sunderland supporter" complaining about the way "real Irish-football supporters" are tarring all Irish-based Sunderland supporters with the same brush because of recent band-wagon jumpers and expects sympathy and a distinction between the two. Priceless.

[The Dublin Red]

You aren't a soccer supporter, you are a customer. People don't support Sunderland, they consume it. Give it up like! If you don't like what you are seeing you can switch the channel. If the TV goes bust you can't even see the team you "support". If a TV channel doesn't deem their matches worth showing, you can't see them in action. It's like any TV show. The Premiership is just like the OC at this stage, excepth the Premiership gets repeated more often.

Sunderland is an end product, just like most big English clubs. The only link you have to it is your wallet - and that's all they want too.

There are about 20,000 soccer SUPPORTERS in this country. You'll find them standing out in whatever the conditions are on a Friday or Saturday night. They don't have the pleasure of action replays or alternate angles, but they get to be there and support a real club, their club.

Don't forget to re-new your Sky Subscription.

Whilst I haven't had a read through the entire thread to extent I can understand both sides of the debate.

I, for the record, am a Nottingham Forest supporter I get over to around 10 games a season and I help run our supporters club which has over 100 members. The Irish Branch of the Supporters club is heading towards being the biggest individual branch through hard work and developing links with supporters from England.

I make no apologies nor will I try and justify my support, it began as a 13 year old in awe of Brian Clough and taken off since then, after 17 years of memories, great trips and life long friendships I'm hardly going to give it up for the sake of national pride.

In saying that however I'm involved in Junior Soccer and have ran a club for 7years, I also attend the occasional LOI game if I have a chance and am a Bray Wanderers fan.

I suppose my main point is whilst I wish the LOI every success and hope that the league does develop we still live in a consumer society and people are free to spend their money how they so wish. If we don't like the fact that people support English football and regard it as an affront to our sense of Irishness why support foreign games anyway? Surely Gaelic Games are the one true support in this country? Should we also stick to supporting only Irish music and Irish culture? I never see this debate before a sold out Police or Rolling Stones gig?

[monutdfc]

Same sh1t in Dublin. Complete embarrassment. When blackburn were the rage here one blackburn "fan" was killed by his manure loving friend outside a pub.

Is that true? Literally killed?

There was the case of the Tipperary hurler who glassed an Irish fan of another team (one was Liverpool and the other was Man Utd) while they were drinking in England.