Irish Sunderland fan here. Debate very interesting

**OneRedArmy** · 27/04/2007, 3:45 PM

Having lived in England for almost 10 years I'm bemused as to how anyone can get attached to the anodyne, antiseptic, US-influenced "product" that Premiership football has become over the last 10-15 years.

I used to regularly attend games at various clubs when I lived there (and enjoyed it) but having been to a couple of games recently, I find it impossible to grow in any way attracted to the whole atmosphere, or lack of it.

The increase in ticket prices, added to the Taylor report changes, influx of foreign occasional visitors and the general gentrification of football has made it, as an experience, akin to an evening at the cinema. It has become very passive rather than interactive and the behaviour of the overpaid primadonnas on the pitch also increases this detachment.

Its just not real enough for me.

**monutdfc** · 27/04/2007, 3:50 PM

Originally Posted by Cymro

It's not like he's against the Irish league, but just chooses to support a team outside of Ireland, maybe because of family history or some other ties there.

Fair enough, but the vast, vast majority of supporters of overseas clubs in Ireland have no real link to justify why they support their chosen team.
Personally, I have enough sense to know that you cannot tell somebody who to support, and don't really care.

**barney** · 27/04/2007, 3:50 PM

Originally Posted by NY Hoop

You're from Stillorgan and you "support" sunderland. How pathetic. When you go abroad and someone asks where you're from and who you support do you not get embarrassed? If you're not from sunderland you cannot be a supporter.

That's unfair and it's a bit snobbish. The guy supports Sunderland. Fair play to him, he's entitled to that and not be called pathetic.

I prefer supporting my LOI team and going to the games live but it isn't for everyone. A lot of people want to see better players and a better product and maybe don't have the time, resources or inclination to go and watch a game every Friday. Like it or not, English football fills that void.

No need to be so condescending about it.

**Dotsy** · 27/04/2007, 4:13 PM

I am fairly sure I played GAA with Irishboy and football for the same junior club. In fact if it's the guy I'm thinking of we were both taken to the same Liv v Sunderland match all those years ago during a GAA trip to play some teams in Liverpool. Unlike him I succumbed to the influence of the fans on the Kop. He took alot of stick over the years for following Sunderland when all the guys we played with followed the usual suspects in the English first div and then the premiership.

Whether you agree with his choice of following an English club I can assure you he knows his football and was probably one of the better players I played with over the years. He also put alot of work into helping to run the UCL team we both played for providing an outlet not just for ourselves but for many of the younger kids in the area.

To be honest LOI football wasn't on the radar among the kids in our area at that time. Unless you had an older family member to get you interested (as I did) you weren't likely to get much exposure to it at all.

That said things have improved alot since then in terms of facilities and the standard of the football. I would encourage him to give it a try. It doesn't have to be a choice between Sunderland and LOI. You can choose both.

Give it a try and maybe the bug will bite.

By the way CharlesThompson - more 40ish than early to mid thirties.

**TonyD** · 27/04/2007, 4:47 PM

Originally Posted by Dotsy

To be honest LOI football wasn't on the radar among the kids in our area at that time. Unless you had an older family member to get you interested (as I did) you weren't likely to get much exposure to it at all.

That said things have improved alot since then in terms of facilities and the standard of the football. I would encourage him to give it a try. It doesn't have to be a choice between Sunderland and LOI. You can choose both.

Give it a try and maybe the bug will bite.

What's interesting about the discussion here so far is the number of people who didn't start out as die hard supporters of their local team, but would now classify themselves as such (myself included). What it shows is that people can be converted. I'm not particularly knocking Irishboy. Of course he, and anyone else, is free to support(or follow, which I would argue is more accurate) anyone he chooses, but if more people were just willing to give their local team a try I'm sure the vast majority would find there really is no substitute. In fairness to Irishboy at least he doesn't seem overtly hostile to the local game, which is something that has always astonished me. Anyway, I'm off to watch Pats/Rovers shortly, and I can't bloody wait

**CharlesThompson** · 27/04/2007, 5:43 PM

Originally Posted by TonyD

What's interesting about the discussion here so far is the number of people who didn't start out as die hard supporters of their local team, but would now classify themselves as such (myself included). What it shows is that people can be converted. I'm not particularly knocking Irishboy. Of course he, and anyone else, is free to support(or follow, which I would argue is more accurate) anyone he chooses, but if more people were just willing to give their local team a try I'm sure the vast majority would find there really is no substitute. In fairness to Irishboy at least he doesn't seem overtly hostile to the local game, which is something that has always astonished me. Anyway, I'm off to watch Pats/Rovers shortly, and I can't bloody wait

I would go along with this. Irishboy seems to be a receptive kind of character albeit a bit misled

. Thing is I would never bring along somebody 'just for the one game' because sure as black is black the game will be sh!te and they'll turn around and say 'I told ye so'.

I would absolutely encourage him to come along with me to a few Bohs games and understand the whole package as it were. Whether he does that with me as a Bohs fan or somebody else as a Pats or Rovers fan is irrelevant in fact, but people like Irishboy are the types of football fans we should be attracting to our games here.

As I've said before and has been said already by others. Supporting a team in another league DOES NOT preclude you from supporting a football team from the eL.

**SkStu** · 27/04/2007, 6:21 PM

[QUOTE=Dotsy;674705]To be honest LOI football wasn't on the radar among the kids in our area at that time. Unless you had an older family member to get you interested (as I did) you weren't likely to get much exposure to it at all. [QUOTE]

good point Dotsy but it also ties in with what TonyD said below you. It is possible to have people who have been fed premiership football, and who might be almost oblivious to the Eircom League, to go to a match and convert. It is what happened with me, BohsPartisan (i supported everton too

) and Charles Thompson to quote just a few of the posts on here. I suppose these are the type of people to focus on. A real soccer lover will appreciate the passion of a night of supporting your team, winning, losing, singing, chanting, cheering, booing, drinking, laughing, arguing, judging and analysing. How do we get them to experience it? Drag em along to a game and see what happens.

**Dotsy** · 27/04/2007, 7:37 PM

[QUOTE=SkStu;674765][QUOTE=Dotsy;674705]To be honest LOI football wasn't on the radar among the kids in our area at that time. Unless you had an older family member to get you interested (as I did) you weren't likely to get much exposure to it at all.

good point Dotsy but it also ties in with what TonyD said below you. It is possible to have people who have been fed premiership football, and who might be almost oblivious to the Eircom League, to go to a match and convert. It is what happened with me, BohsPartisan (i supported everton too

) and Charles Thompson to quote just a few of the posts on here. I suppose these are the type of people to focus on. A real soccer lover will appreciate the passion of a night of supporting your team, winning, losing, singing, chanting, cheering, booing, drinking, laughing, arguing, judging and analysing. How do we get them to experience it? Drag em along to a game and see what happens.

I couldn't agree more. You just can't beat the atmosphere at a live match and I think many newcomers would be pleasantly surprised at the standard of football on offer in the EL but it's getting them to take that first step that is the problem.

**Gaillimh Al** · 27/04/2007, 8:04 PM

Latest score Sunderland 1-2 Burnley.....oh-oh. Play offs beckon.

Spoke too soon 2-2. Murphy and Connolly on the score sheet.

Carlos Edwards 3-2. Premiership awaits.

**Boh_So_Good** · 27/04/2007, 11:44 PM

I would love to offer an opinion on this issue - but the moderators only want real Irish soccer supporters to express the truth to a certain level and then no further than that.

So I am keeping my mouth shut so that the Keano Cult on foot.ie do not have their religion offended. He is a deity after all...

This is why the LOI supporter is a lowlife in the eyes of the "sports mad Irish public" - very few of them have the balls to stand up for yourselves. If we all did, we might get listened to rather than hiding in fear in the corner like cowards.

**GavinZac** · 28/04/2007, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by Boh_So_Good

I would love to offer an opinion on this issue - but the moderators only want real Irish soccer supporters to express the truth to a certain level and then no further than that.

So I am keeping my mouth shut so that the Keano Cult on foot.ie do not have their religion offended. He is a deity after all...

This is why the LOI supporter is a lowlife in the eyes of the "sports mad Irish public" - very few of them have the balls to stand up for yourselves. If we all did, we might get listened to rather than hiding in fear in the corner like cowards.

You're on my ignore list, but I clicked "view this post" because, given your hatred of Keane, I assumed you would spend a bit of time preparing a damning indictment of his tenure there, of the cynical nature of some of the marketing, and some sharp cuts into his cash-laden credibility.

Instead you've opted for "i wont say anything, but..." weasel words, as they're called over on Wikipedia, and targeted them at other foot.ie members rather than the guy you obviously have some bizarre Freudian paternal betrayal complex for. I'm half tempted to write a firefox extension that completely removes your posts so that I never give you the benefit of the doubt again.

**BohDiddley** · 28/04/2007, 8:02 PM

Originally Posted by robbiesdrogs

the best one of all is a guy in work moved to drogheda and started going to games eith us.hes getting stick in work for being from dublin but following the drogs

Traitor

Check this out - bandwagoning goes global

with renewed and enhanced eire connections it is not supprising our fanbase is growing not just in the Republic of Ireland, but also elsewhere around the world.

When I last looked at my statistics for the Sunderland AFC blog I was supprised to see such diverse readership from countries like Kuwait, Finland, the Russian Federation, Canada, France and even from our Trinidadian support following Dwight and co. (you know who you are, and thanks for dropping by).

**Dr.Nightdub** · 29/04/2007, 3:03 AM

Was in the Rathfarnham Orchard last night after the game and the place is festooned in Sunderland paraphernalia - not surprising, as the owner (Charlie Chawke) is one of the Drumville crowd. Ads up as well for whatever Sunderland game they were showing live next week.

I'm not saying this is evil as such, but it is insidious and more than likely will build some kind of base for Sunderland in that area. Same goes for Goatstown if he's doing the same in the Goat Grill.

It's just competition and like competition in anything else, if you're competing against someone bigger, you've just got to be cleverer. Our trump card is localism in its best sense - pride in what's nearby cos it's yours. Any tangents down xenophobic roads (or being xenophobic towards fellow-travellers of foreign teams) will get us nowhere.

**Kildare Lad** · 29/04/2007, 10:19 AM

I have mixed feelings on this thread...

I think most of youse are beig very harsh on irishboy99, youse all say that he only goes over once a season, but in fairness, Id imagine he would go over to every home game if he could, but its very expensive and sometimes hard to get tickets. Thats not his fault. He feels a passion for Suderland, we all have a passion for a certain club aswell (2 clubs in some cases), so why argue with him? Maybe instead we should try to incourage him to come to LOI games. (I know some of you are trying to do this in the thread)

Then again, I dont understand really why he doesnt attend LOI games regularly, if your such a football fan, and your willing to travel to another country why not drive down the road to watch a match? Im sure you would enjoy it.

I have no problem with people who support foreign clubs, but I hate the people who criticise the LOI and irishboy99 is not doing that so I havent got a problem with him.

Its always easier to support big foreign clubs, watch them on TV in a lovely warm sitting room, have a chat with people in school/work about them, the quality is much better than Irish football and then when you do go over, the facilities are top notch. But nothing, and i mean nothing, compares to being with the fans of your own club watching your team when things go right on the pitch, that feeling is something the barstoolers will never have.

**Da Real Rover** · 29/04/2007, 1:20 PM

Originally Posted by GavinZac

You're on my ignore list, but I clicked "view this post" because, given your hatred of Keane, I assumed you would spend a bit of time preparing a damning indictment of his tenure there, of the cynical nature of some of the marketing, and some sharp cuts into his cash-laden credibility.

Instead you've opted for "i wont say anything, but..." weasel words, as they're called over on Wikipedia, and targeted them at other foot.ie members rather than the guy you obviously have some bizarre Freudian paternal betrayal complex for. I'm half tempted to write a firefox extension that completely removes your posts so that I never give you the benefit of the doubt again.

That time of the month??

Fact is that i started supporting Merchandise united first and the Leeds United, but with neither did i feel a significant bond. I did love to see them win but then when i put that feeling of 'my' team in england winning in comparison with Rovers winning it is just dwarfed completely by the elation of seeing my local team win. There is no comparison, but if i was told that when i supported Merchandise United i would have told you that its ridiculous, i am just as passionate about 'my' english team as someone who supports their local team. In the end the only way for people to see this is to participate in the passion yourselves, there is no replacement for some terrace banter.

I always look on supporting a club no different than supporting your country. Your club is the team for your locality, with its heritage and community links. While your national team is the team for your nation. So why would someone choose a team that is not form their locality?? It is no different than going to england games to support england even if you are irish through and through.

**osarusan** · 29/04/2007, 1:59 PM

Originally Posted by Da Real Rover

I always look on supporting a club no different than supporting your country. Your club is the team for your locality, with its heritage and community links. While your national team is the team for your nation. So why would someone choose a team that is not form their locality?? It is no different than going to england games to support england even if you are irish through and through.

To be fair though, while your country will field eleven players who are from that country (at least according to FIFA's regulations), a club side, as we have see a few times in England, may field 11 players who are not from that city, or even country.

I know that the club is the local side, and the community and history are there, but the loyalty felt by most club players doesnt approach that of most international players. I'm sick of watching a player who has just signed for a club kissing the badge etc, in a show of love or loyalty which is clearly (usually) just for show.

**BohsPartisan** · 29/04/2007, 2:39 PM

Originally Posted by osarusan

I know that the club is the local side, and the community and history are there, but the loyalty felt by most club players doesnt approach that of most international players.

That would be a good arguement if it wasn't for the fact half our national team is comprised of mercenaries who never considered themselves Irish until international football came knocking.
However its not just the players and where they are from, its primarily the club and being part of it yourself.

**Da Real Rover** · 29/04/2007, 5:25 PM

Originally Posted by osarusan

To be fair though, while your country will field eleven players who are from that country (at least according to FIFA's regulations), a club side, as we have see a few times in England, may field 11 players who are not from that city, or even country.

I know that the club is the local side, and the community and history are there, but the loyalty felt by most club players doesnt approach that of most international players. I'm sick of watching a player who has just signed for a club kissing the badge etc, in a show of love or loyalty which is clearly (usually) just for show.

Nah i dont buy that. Players are just a small part of the whole club set up, players come and go but its the heritage that stays behind.

**OneRedArmy** · 29/04/2007, 6:29 PM

Another thing I don't understand about the English football phenomena is how Irish fans can feel part of the same cultural group as the local fans.

Eg having gone to uni with 2 mad mackems, hating Newcastle United and Geordies is a core tenet of who they are and the really do hate them. How can someone from Ireland who goes to the odd match ever get close enough to even understand this?

Similarly, I always find it amusing when an Irish Man U/Liverpool fan announces their dislike for Scousers/Mancs. Why do they dislike them? Because they feel they have to? Totally ridiculous really when you think about it.

**Dr.Nightdub** · 29/04/2007, 7:18 PM

Couple of questions for Irishboy99 (and not put in a hostile tone either):

Everything you say about supporting Sunderland involves "I" or "me" i.e. it's a singular thing. I'm sure you meet up with other Sunderland fans on the way to games but you see the point. Everything LoI fans say involves "us" or "we" - i.e. it's a collective thing. Do you not feel that you're missing out on the shared experience of supporting a team?

Just out of curiosity, have you watched any of the live LoI / Setanta matches on TV and if so, what's your impression? If you haven't, then hold that thought, watch Cork v Pats on Setanta next Thursday then come back and answer it.