Irish Sunderland fan here. Debate very interesting

[The Dublin Red]

We've already pointed out that association football has been on this island longer than the Gaelic code, but its not about foreign sports or national sports its about supporting something you have a genuine connection with, something that you have the ability to pe part of week in week out. I follow Everton as my second club but I can't go their every week so you don't become part of it. To paraphrase Billy, I follow Everton but I am part of Bohs. Thats where the difference lies. As you said you support the Dublin GAA team. Why not support Kerry, Armagh or Meath?

I accept that point but what you'll get back is that Gaelic Games are the only true national sports and that they are the premier games.

I take your point on Dublin GAA but again for me its a different sport and that because the Ga is exclusive to Ireland and still "amateur" people will stick to their counties anyway.

I respect that you are more a Bohs supporter and feel part of it but in all honesty that what I feel for Forest as to a large extent I've lost my LOI affinity.

[The Dublin Red]

Jesus man I didnt mean ********** I meant the original link to football365.com.

Forest fan if you think it's just "a few fools on the internet" who think like that good luck. Cant help what you think but you're wrong.

Erstwhile Irish clubs should be supported not ignored by Irish people but thanks for the history and geography lesson.

Passinginterest do you honestly think that because of what I or others think will drive people away from the league?

KOH

Well forgive me for suggesting that I have a bit of knowledge on this subject as I travel over at least once a month. I've never experienced whats being described.

I see you ignored the rest of the post

You say that Irish clubs should be supported but again its down to personal choice and your views do little to promote the league

[NY Hoop]

Well forgive me for suggesting that I have a bit of knowledge on this subject as I travel over at least once a month. I've never experienced whats being described.

I see you ignored the rest of the post

You say that Irish clubs should be supported but again its down to personal choice and your views do little to promote the league

So you've talked to the real utd, chelsea, liverpool fans over there have you?

I ignored the rest of your post cos it was drivel.

Again what people say on an internet site should not sway people one way or the other from going to EL games.

KOH

[passinginterest]

Passinginterest do you honestly think that because of what I or others think will drive people away from the league?

KOH

It may be only a very small effect but possibly yes. People who read a message board like this in an effort to find out more about supporting the League of Ireland could be put off.

In fairness to you I admire your passion and commitment to your club and maybe your more extreme opinions aren't going to have any effect on people attending the league. I just get the feeling that encouraging those who grew up 'supporting' English clubs to give the Eircom League a shot would be more effective than dismissing them.

[The Dublin Red]

So you've talked to the real utd, chelsea, liverpool fans over there have you?

I ignored the rest of your post cos it was drivel.

Again what people say on an internet site should not sway people one way or the other from going to EL games.

KOH

So the supporters of three of the biggest clubs in the World are representative of 92 English Football League Clubs

And you who detests the fact the English football is so popular have spoken to supporters of how many clubs?

Your patronising and narrow minded views do nothing to sway the neutrals, in fact it would keep people away.

[NY Hoop]

So the supporters of three of the biggest clubs in the World are representative of 92 English Football League Clubs

And you who detests the fact the English football is so popular have spoken to supporters of how many clubs?

Your patronising and narrow minded views do nothing to sway the neutrals, in fact it would keep people away.

Oh dear. This is the reason I ignore you people. Truly clueless. Those 3 biggest clubs have the most Irish fans ffs. Do I have to spell everything out?

I dont detest the way english football is so popular. I just feel sorry for the stupid paddies who "support" it.

Read the last line of my last post

KOH

[The Dublin Red]

Oh dear. This is the reason I ignore you people. Truly clueless. Those 3 biggest clubs have the most Irish fans ffs. Do I have to spell everything out?

I dont detest the way english football is so popular. I just feel sorry for the stupid paddies who "support" it.

Read the last line of my last post

KOH

Yeah good man keeps up the insults, it really does progress your argument

I really couldn't care less what you think, they may be the three biggest but your statement was a blanket for all supporters of English clubs.

[NY Hoop]

Yeah good man keeps up the insults, it really does progress your argument

I really couldn't care less what you think, they may be the three biggest but your statement was a blanket for all supporters of English clubs.

Christ on a balloon. You should be under a blanket.

The majority of Irish people that "support" english football "support" one of the clubs already mentioned. In the link the real fans were complaining that ticket prices have gone up and that tickets are in short supply because of the paddies coming over. Now do you honestly think that he is referring to any club outside the ones already mentioned ffs?

Think McFly think.

KOH

[reder]

Wrong. My point is that he's not english so why support an english club?
KOH

2 points. 1 query and 1 massive post on irish PL supporters.

Firstly in response to the post above, where does that leave a guy like me? Im english born, can I support and EL club? As i said before I went to an EL game recently and enjoyed it very much and plan on attending more in the future.

Secondly, irish PL supporters are insane! FACT. As ppl here might know, I am Liverpool born and bred. Last tuesday night we qualified for the CL final again. Every travel agent the length and breadth of country has "SOLD OUT" packages for €2,800 (average) for 2 night trips. You cant actually get on a waiting list for a package. I will get a ticket for the game through the club as a result of loyalty but wont be going as travel to athens from Ireland seems to be almost impossible (bar flying via estonia). I also have a season ticket renewal at the end of the season.

Note : I would never use a travel agent ever!!!

A heck of alot of people were actually phoning travel agents on wed morning in the airport booking their place. I suggested they save their cash and go down to fulham on saturday and support the team but they looked at me like I was mad. One guy actually turned away and laughed.

I probably wont be in athens however I will be at craven cottage on saturday (game is actually on fancard sale so they have no ticket excuses) and charlton home the sunday after. I wonder which games they will be missing.

P.S.---------------------------
Sorry I am a bit annoyed at the moment with the whole thing.

[Erstwhile Bóz]

Nobody's saying that the way it is is how it ought to be in a perfect world, reder. In a perfect world the Team of the Macs, Billy Liddell, King Kenny and the rest of the non-English FA Cup team from 1986 would have all been from L4 and we'd never have heard of you because McMurrow wouldn't have got ye over in the first place.

I do genuinely feel for the Liverpool fans who have been squeezed out due to various factors over the last twenty years or so and have had the match-going experience robbed from them. Daytripping is only a symptom of the other diseases that are actually killing English football, and be sure of it.

My infrequent Drums-going uncles, for example, were also Liverpool-mad in the '60s and '70s but there was none of the packaging and commercialization of English football (or money in Dublin) that there is today and the phenomenon of daytripping just wasn't on the agenda. I'm sure all the United fans created when poor Liam Whelan died in Munich and stoked up by the predatory North-South scouting network were in the same boat. The papers and the radio and the odd cup final on telly was all they could manage. I'd like someone to explain to them that any kind of sharing they felt in Shankly's Liverpool was imagined and that they were up their own holes.

One of Shankly's more famous quotes is from before a match at Anfield and a Liverpool fan comes up to him and talks to him. Shankly says, “Where are you from, laddie?” “I'm from London,” says the kid. Shankly goes, “Well, son; what's it like to be in heaven?”

What a wonderful story it would be if he had said, “Well, son; shag off back down south and leave a ticket for a real fan, you gloryhunting little scumbag. You disgust me. You are deluding yourself and destroying football.”

On the more general point, I do think that if you gave most Irish people the choice, they'd prefer things to be how they were in the heyday of Irish soccer with big crowds and a vibrant league, but they can't be bothered getting up off their hole and making the effort to change it around when they can just laugh at the FAI. Just as most people would love to have Irish, to the point of lying through their teeth on the Census, but unfortunately not to the point of gettin up off their hole to do anything about it when they can just blame the way it's taught.

It doesn't make them nasty people or horrible people or idiots or vermin. They're just carrying on as they — we all — were brought up. Slagging them for not ‘seeing the light’ as all of us chosen ones have is very crass.

[Billy Lord]

Dublin Red: when I called your choice rubbish, it was purely in the context of consumerism. It is merely stating a fact that, if your support of Forest is based solely on choice, it makes little sense to go on making that same choice if there is better football on offer elsewhere. Ergo, it's a rubbish choice.
It is admirable that you continue to support the club when it has seen better days, but I would contend that it's not choice but loyalty that keeps you a Forest fan. Would a consumer change their choice if a product they bought regularly showed a decline in quality? But that thought wouldn't enter your head because your loyalty prohibits you from making a rational choice. Any fan worth their salt will keep supporting their club regardless of how badly things are going.
As for someone else (can't remember who) claiming that Forest are better than any club here, I would disagree. The top four LoI clubs would be better. Just my opinion, mind.

[TheOwl]

Yeah good man keeps up the insults, it really does progress your argument

I really couldn't care less what you think, they may be the three biggest but your statement was a blanket for all supporters of English clubs.

Hi Dublin Red,

If possible try and distance most Eircom League fans from the attitudes of NY Hoop, you are giving his opinions far more attention than they deserve. As an Eircom League fan myself I find his arrogant tone pathetic and embarrassing.

[Billy Lord]

Every club in England has its little Englander types who hate the Irish and that should be far more off-putting for your average Paddy than anything posted here.

[Erstwhile Bóz]

If we stopped following teams because of a distasteful element in their support we'd all be ****ed. UCD's attendances would go through the roof, though.

[BohsPartisan]

And then it would fall as the distastefull element would start supporting them and so on and so forth...

[reder]

Every club in England has its little Englander types who hate the Irish and that should be far more off-putting for your average Paddy than anything posted here.

I actually condsider "The Dublin Red" to be a good fan. He could easily has decided the move away from Forest after their fall from grace but he has stuck with his team through thick and thin. I despise forest but fair play him.

I really dont think that the comments posted on this forum regarding the PL is going to draw any PL fan towards the PL.

[dcfcsteve]

The England V Ireland point is ridiculous. I support Ireland but I don't hate England for that matter.

But why do you support Ireland ? Did yer mammy buy you a green bag when you were seven ?

And how is it ridiculous to support a domestic English team over Irish ones, but not the English team (international) over the Irish one....?

[CollegeTillIDie]

It's taken me a few days to get through all the posts on this thread.
The general thing I see coming through all of it is this... there are several strands of interest in football. From my own experience of meeting people in different walks of life and in different countries , you have the following

1) Real Fans, these support their local team . In Ireland they support their nearest ELOI team. In England they support their local team rather than be glory hunting fans of Chelsea, Arsenal etc, who by rights should not have any support in Yorkshire or the North East

2) Glory Hunting Bandwaggoners (Domestic).
These are Scottish in Aberdeen who support the Old Firm. And the Scottish fans have the same disdain for that kind of fan as we do. In England the Londoners who support Man United ,and in Ireland people from West of the Bann who support Linfield for example.

3) Glory Hunting Bandwaggoners (Overseas)
This is the group such as our Sunderland fans over here, fans of the big Premiership clubs , who go cross channel etc.
These are the people who spend a lot of money going to watch football in England or Scotland but most of whom would not cross the road to watch a game here.

4) Barstoolers
Idiots who think supporting a team involves buying a replica shirt a SKY SPORTS Subscription and or going down the pub to watch ALL YOUR games. The phenomenon we experience here of fans no longer attending matches and whole generations going to watch games in bars or only on TV in their homes is no longer a purely Irish experience. The Premiership saturation TV coverage is spreading like a Computer Virus across Europe, aided by it's allies the Primera Liga, Serie A and the Bundesliga , and this is evidenced by falling attendances at domestic League games especially in Central and Eastern Europe.


Now 1) and 3) are potential customers for the ELOI. Although category 3 may in part, by going cross channel , be trying to escape the wife/partner the kids and or the dog.
Category 2) might already be , but won't support Kildare County if they are from Newbridge, you may find them at Dalymount or Richmond instead.

4) are a lost cause and you will never attract them to a game . Even if ELOI clubs started winning UEFA Cups they still wouldn't go.

Someone mentioned marketing the strengths of the ELOI and that's a fair point . Here's one, I can meet supporters whom I know of any of the other 21 League clubs in this country , and we don't need a brigade of riot police to keep us apart. End of really.

People have spoken to here about clubs with the following initials L.F.C, M.U.F.C. and D.C.F.C.
Being Irish I am more interested in Limerick( 37) F.C. than Liverpool
I am more interested in Monaghan United than Manchester United.
And Derry City mean more to me than Derby County.

The pathetic thing about this sceptered little isle on which we live , is that I am in a tiny minority in this .

[Billy Lord]

Bored to tears with this, but I'll plough on as I've nothing better to do. The Ireland thing is relevant: why would any Irish person support Ireland when there are better international teams to choose from? If it's about choice, why choose Ireland?
Having said that, I fervently support Italy in international football, and have done since 1970. So that makes me a domestic football fan with an international barstool mentality. There's a dichotomy!
I still support Ireland by proxy, but gave up on going to games a year or so ago (after 35 years' service) because I felt it was a waste of time. And I hate the fans. The green wigs and Ole Ole chants make me want to puke, and I hate the bell-ringer on the South Terrace with a vengeance. It's like being at a GAA match.
Football is best when it has an edge.

[dfx-]

Hi Dublin Red,

If possible try and distance most Eircom League fans from the attitudes of NY Hoop, you are giving his opinions far more attention than they deserve. As an Eircom League fan myself I find his arrogant tone pathetic and embarrassing.

Seconded. Nothing you do or say will stop him posting like that, so please don't waste your time on replying. Reply to people who you can have a debate with.