Irish Sunderland fan here. Debate very interesting

**The Dublin Red** · 02/05/2007, 3:08 PM

Originally Posted by NY Hoop

But we cant attract people like you to our league because you are so brainwashed by your foreign club (no disrespect) that if Bray beat forest 10-0 in the CL it wouldnt turn you. You are right I dont recognise it as real support.

I used to support the Dubs but those days are gone seeing as the GAA are trying to kill off our club in Tallaght. Are you implying that EL players are not "real sportsmen"?? And if you think that inter county players are out of pocket I feel sorry for your naivety.

KOH

You can feel sorry all you like but the more I read this the less I'm inclined to follow the LOI. I haven't been brainwashed by anyone. I live in a free country and can make personal choices regardless of what certain LOI Zealouts think. I couldn't care less if you don't see it as real support. Likewise I'm sure you don't care being slagged off by GAA Zealouts for supporting the Garisson Games/Foreign Games. Both views are as bad as each other.

I disagree with what the GAA are doing in Tallaght but it reamins a fact that the GAA is the main sport in this country and the players only get expenses, I know a few inter-county players and the lecel depends on what county they're with.

**OneRedArmy** · 02/05/2007, 3:09 PM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Are you trying to say that rugby in Ireland is no more popular now than it was in 1991 ? If you're not, then clearly it's support has flowed - not ebbed.
I left school in Derry in 1991. At that time, St Columbs (largest Catholic boys school in the north) didn't play rugby -as, in fact, most Catholic schools didn't. Now it does, and has been doing for years. It's the same with a number of other Catholic schools I know in the north. Plenty of flow in-evidence, with very little ebb....

Who's to say it won't or can't all flow even further....?

Steve not sure the example related to the popularity of rugby, more to the employment of a teacher who had played in the UK and wanted to share his love of rugby, along with support from CDRFC who were trying to start cross-community initiatives back in 1993.

The Irish team was very poor at that time and rugby really started to blossom in Ireland on the back of the Heineken Cup in the late 90s and an improving national side.

But I take the point that sports ebb and flow. Domestic basketball was ridiculously popular for a while in Ireland.

**The Dublin Red** · 02/05/2007, 3:11 PM

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

If you believe this to be true, then the planes full of Sunderland supporters and bars full of Chelsea fans must contain fans who are new to the game, as they weren't there 5 or 10 years ago.

Many are in their 30s and 40s and I find it highly unlikely they only recently discovered football.

More likely they have quietly changed alliegence from Leeds, Blackburn, Liverpool or whatever team used to be en vogue.

Ah I don't disagree with you and I'm sure this is the case but again this is representative of life in general. If people do that so what? Do yuo really want them at your games and changing like the weather?

You're not alone either, Forest have sold out this weeks game with Crewe as it means something. Where have they been all season? Or when we drew Chelsea in the Cup, everyone wanted a ticket, people who hadn't gone in years. It happens in all aspects of life.

**NY Hoop** · 02/05/2007, 3:26 PM

Originally Posted by The Dublin Red

You can feel sorry all you like but the more I read this the less I'm inclined to follow the LOI. I haven't been brainwashed by anyone. I live in a free country and can make personal choices regardless of what certain LOI Zealouts think. I couldn't care less if you don't see it as real support. Likewise I'm sure you don't care being slagged off by GAA Zealouts for supporting the Garisson Games/Foreign Games. Both views are as bad as each other.

I disagree with what the GAA are doing in Tallaght but it reamins a fact that the GAA is the main sport in this country and the players only get expenses, I know a few inter-county players and the lecel depends on what county they're with.

Lecel?

Well thanks for coming but not sure why you did to be honest. You can call us all the names you want. I dont need to get on a plane to watch football. Do you cheer on england when they play Ireland?

KOH

**paul_oshea** · 02/05/2007, 3:34 PM

Yeah but Gaelic Football is a rubbish sport compared to Association Football and its rules have been utilised on this island no longer than the association rules, possibly for not as long.

The first reference to any code of football in Ireland occurs in the Statute of Galway of 1527, which allowed the playing of football and archery but banned "hokie' — the hurling of a little ball with sticks or staves" as well as other sports. However even "foot-ball" was banned by the severe Sunday Observance Act of 1695, which imposed a fine of one shilling (a substantial amount at the time) for those caught playing sports. It proved difficult, if not impossible for the authorities to enforce the Act and the earliest recorded match in Ireland was one between Louth and Meath, at Slane, in 1712.

By the early 19th century, various football games, referred to collectively as caid, were popular in Kerry , especially the Dingle Peninsula. Father W. Ferris described two forms of caid: the "field game" in which the object was to put the ball through arch-like goals, formed from the boughs of two trees, and; the epic "cross-country game" which lasted the whole of a Sunday (after mass) and was won by taking the ball across a parish boundary. "Wrestling", "holding" opposing players, and carrying the ball were all allowed.

Irish forms of football were not formally arranged into an organized playing code by the Gaelic Athletic Association (GAA) until 1887.

While it is clear even to casual observers that Gaelic football is similar to Australian rules football, the exact relationship is unclear, or even controversial. Australian rules was devised in Melbourne, in the Colony of Victoria, from 1858. Because of the Australian gold rushes, there were many Irishmen in Victoria at the time. The Australian historian B. W. O'Dwyer points out that both games have always been differentiated from rugby football by having no limitation on ball or player movement (in the absence of an offside rule); the need to bounce or toe-kick the ball, known as a solo in Gaelic football, while running; punching the ball (hand-passing) rather than throwing it, and other traditions.

**BohsPartisan** · 02/05/2007, 3:42 PM

But "Irish forms" were not peculiarly Irish. In fact they were almost identical to the English forms that spawned Rugby and Association football. Also similar to Calcio Fiorentino and other proto football type games. As you say the "Gaelic" rules were not utilised until 1887. Seeing as how Cliftonville FC was formed in 1879, the game foot.ie users predominantly know and love has more history behind it on the Island to the supposed "Irish" form.

Further reading "The Peoples' Game" by James Walvin, "Calcio" by John Foot.

**The Dublin Red** · 02/05/2007, 3:42 PM

Originally Posted by NY Hoop

Lecel?

Well thanks for coming but not sure why you did to be honest. You can call us all the names you want. I dont need to get on a plane to watch football. Do you cheer on england when they play Ireland?

KOH

Woops typed too fast! Meant level.

It's an excellent site, one of the best and most informative around and its a good debate.

The last comment is very lazy

In fairness you're better than that. It's no different from some GAA loo la slagging you off for following the evil of soccer!

I'm delighted you love your club but I object to the narrow viewpoint and disregard for those of us that have made different choices. In one way I've got to thank you as you've just made the reasons I support Forest even stronger!

**passinginterest** · 02/05/2007, 3:45 PM

I have to say I get really mixed feelings reading this thread. I can see where both sides are coming from and I really don't think the more extreme league of Ireland supporters do the league any favours with such a zero tolerance attitude to supporters of foreign teams.

Name calling and casting aspersions left, right and centre is hardly going to attract more supporters to games. Like the majority of footballers in my area (Wexford) my team growing up was an English one. Liverpool have been the team I follow since I was four or five years old and I'll always have a soft spot for them. I'd say it was only in my teenage years I realised the League of Ireland existed at all and started to take an interest. I had favourite teams over the years but never one that I stuck with like Liverpool.

I've come to realise in the last 5or 6 years (I'm 24 now) that I'm not a Liverpool supporter and never will be, I've never been to Anfield, I'll never be truly part of the club, although I'll probably always watch the results and be happy to see them win the champions league. Until recently I never felt I could be a League of Ireland supporter either. I had attended 3 games in total prior to this year. Then Wexford Youths was formed and I felt like I had a team I could really identify with, I'll still never be a hardcore supporter who goes to every game but if anyone asks who I support Wexford Youths is now my answer.

This year I've been to one pre season game, two Wexford Youths home games and a Bohemians home game. I take an interest in the league of Ireland and football in general. I'm still a casual supporter, but my alliegence has switched primarily to the domestic game. In many ways I feel like I'm exactly the kind of person that the league needs to attract and reading this thread I get the feeling I'm not wanted by a minority of 'hardcore' fans.

**BohsPartisan** · 02/05/2007, 3:45 PM

Dublin Red, You support Forest and Bray? Were you by any chance once a candidate for UCD Students' Union president?

**NY Hoop** · 02/05/2007, 3:48 PM

Originally Posted by The Dublin Red

Woops typed too fast! Meant level.

It's an excellent site, one of the best and most informative around and its a good debate.

The last comment is very lazy

In fairness you're better than that. It's no different from some GAA loo la slagging you off for following the evil of soccer!

I'm delighted you love your club but I object to the narrow viewpoint and disregard for those of us that have made different choices. In one way I've got to thank you as you've just made the reasons I support Forest even stronger!

Not lazy at all. Beats me how people go berserk with joy when england lose at anything anywhere but then cheer on an english team when they play an Irish one.

If you love forest more cos of an internet site you need to get out more.

KOH

**jebus** · 02/05/2007, 3:48 PM

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

Dublin Red, You support Forest and Bray? Were you by any chance once a candidate for UCD Students' Union president?

The Red Menace has spies everywhere I tell you

**BohsPartisan** · 02/05/2007, 3:49 PM

Originally Posted by jebus

The Red Menace has spies everywhere I tell you

No just wondering is he someone I knew at college who had those allegiances.

**The Dublin Red** · 02/05/2007, 3:50 PM

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

Dublin Red, You support Forest and Bray? Were you by any chance once a candidate for UCD Students' Union president?

Jaysus small world eh!!

Spot on my friend

**The Dublin Red** · 02/05/2007, 3:52 PM

Originally Posted by NY Hoop

Not lazy at all. Beats me how people go berserk with joy when england lose at anything anywhere but then cheer on an english team when they play an Irish one.

If you love forest more cos of an internet site you need to get out more.

KOH

Where are you getting this internet site thing from

I'm saying this site is superb and that why I've contributed to the debate.

**osarusan** · 02/05/2007, 3:53 PM

We (the royal we) criticize anybody who doesnt support eL football and supports Premiership football (or as we so wittily term it - Premiersh!t), we accuse them of having no loyalty, and no intelligence whatsoever, accuse them of being bandwagon jumpers, barstoolers, say we dont want them at our games, spoiling the purity (dont forget that eL football is the purest form of football to be found anywhere in the world), we bemoan the lack of facilites, but say we want to preserve the parochial element of our game.........a confused bunch.

**BohsPartisan** · 02/05/2007, 3:55 PM

Originally Posted by osarusan

We (the royal we) criticize anybody who doesnt support eL football and supports Premiership football (or as we so wittily term it - Premiersh!t), we accuse them of having no loyalty, and no intelligence whatsoever, accuse them of being bandwagon jumpers, barstoolers, say we dont want them at our games, spoiling the purity (dont forget that eL football is the purest form of football to be found anywhere in the world), we bemoan the lack of facilites, but say we want to preserve the parochial element of our game.........a confused bunch.

I'm intrigued by your ideas and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter!

**jebus** · 02/05/2007, 3:58 PM

Originally Posted by osarusan

We (the royal we) criticize anybody who doesnt support eL football and supports Premiership football (or as we so wittily term it - Premiersh!t), we accuse them of having no loyalty, and no intelligence whatsoever, accuse them of being bandwagon jumpers, barstoolers, say we dont want them at our games, spoiling the purity (dont forget that eL football is the purest form of football to be found anywhere in the world), we bemoan the lack of facilites, but say we want to preserve the parochial element of our game.........a confused bunch.

Not to mention that we all jump up in delight at the thought of a foreigner supporting an EL club. (this isn't a dig at Galway okay)When that Japanese girl who supports Galway came over recently loads of people on here, including some of the ones castigating Irish Premiership supporters, nearly wet themselves with well dones for her, but I ask you this, if we are being all high and mighty about people who support English teams, then why weren't we asking why she doesn't support her local Japanese team?