Election 2007

[jebus]

You're dangerously close to saying "They took our juuurrbs"

How am I dangerously close to that? Unless you're planning on pretending I make racist remarks, which is what you just did there.

Where I think the 44k is fictional is in saying that we have 44k per year per head, which is just untrue. I don't know anyone, skilled or unskilled, who is on that kind of money. If it shows anything then it probably shows that this country is indeed one where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. for example, for such a small island with a small population we have a surprising amount of millionaires, which probably pushes up our 44k per head average

[dahamsta]

I'm pretty sure the problem with that figure is that the very large number of people in Ireland with too much money* pull it up to that figure. If you take that bracket out, I'd imagine it would take a major dive.

Remember the old adage: lies, damn lies and statistics.

adam

EDIT: jebus got there first, so I'll add: I know plenty of people making that kind of money, but I also know that I'm in a well-paid industry and they're the exception rather than the rule.

* Yes, I do honestly believe that you can have too much money, in fact I think it's to blame for most of the ills of the world.

[GavinZac]

How am I dangerously close to that? Unless you're planning on pretending I make racist remarks, which is what you just did there.

Not racist, but ignorant.

What so they can take up our minimum wage jobs

It was a joke. You said the words "take our jobs" and it came into my head, apologies for a bit of levity!

Where I think the 44k is fictional is in saying that we have 44k per year per head, which is just untrue. I don't know anyone, skilled or unskilled, who is on that kind of money. If it shows anything then it probably shows that this country is indeed one where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. for example, for such a small island with a small population we have a surprising amount of millionaires, which probably pushes up our 44k per head average

If the rich got richer, and the poor got poorer, on average the PPP per capita (head) would either be stationary (the average of 3 and -3 is 0, the average of 6 and -6 is zero) or would go down as there are a lot more heads below $44k per year than are millionaires.

Look, I share as much concern about keeping heads above water as yourself, and the only party i've advocated voting for in this thread is the Socialist party (Mick Barry). I still think the current government have been good for the country and for its people as a whole.

[dahamsta]

They've been good for the country in the short term, and good for certain classes of people. They've been good for themselves in the medium-term, and good for nothing in the long term. They've been good for certain classes of people: the rich and themselves. In many cases they fit into both categories, by design.

adam

[GavinZac]

Remember the old adage: lies, damn lies and statistics.

To borrow from another adage - statistics are the worst way of making a decision, until you've tried anecdotes, propaganda and faith.

Or Fine Fail are the worst... etc etc

[OneRedArmy]

How am I dangerously close to that? Unless you're planning on pretending I make racist remarks, which is what you just did there.

Where I think the 44k is fictional is in saying that we have 44k per year per head, which is just untrue. I don't know anyone, skilled or unskilled, who is on that kind of money. If it shows anything then it probably shows that this country is indeed one where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. for example, for such a small island with a small population we have a surprising amount of millionaires, which probably pushes up our 44k per head average

That doesn't change the fact that the average is still probably correct.

You need another measure of statistical dispersion!

[BohsPartisan]

The average industrial wage is around 32 grand.

[OneRedArmy]

The average industrial wage is around 32 grand.

Ireland doesn't have any signficant industry in the traditional sense

Do you know what sectors this measure includes?

[jebus]

That doesn't change the fact that the average is still probably correct.

You need another measure of statistical dispersion!

Who cares if it's correct? It may very well be, but as myself and Dahamsta have been saying, the national average is probably pushed up by the few who are making big money. The average person on the street earns less that 44k a year, of that I'm positive, so that statistic is misleading, if not false

[GavinZac]

Who cares if it's correct? It may very well be, but as myself and Dahamsta have been saying, the national average is probably pushed up by the few who are making big money. The average person on the street earns less that 44k a year, of that I'm positive, so that statistic is misleading, if not false

That would be the case in smaller nations like Luxembourg and Bahamas, who have less than 1 million occupants but have PPP rates of around $80k per capita.

Unless you're suggesting there are a couple of hundred thousand millionaires in ireland, statistically we would need more than a few Bill Gates-esque millionaires to make any significant impact on the average. Also, what you cannot discount is that whether or not 44k sounds inflated, we're still higher than any other country. It is this comparison, or rather, the comparison to where we were, that we have to make to decide whether or not we're better off as a people than we were. I would've thought the answer would be obvious.

[Lim till i die]

You can't immediately turn around a country

Then why lie about it??

that is what they are in the middle of doing.

The mother of fools, she is always pregnant

In the last ten years, have things gotten better or worse?

Where I live?? Much worse

It's all built on sand anyway. Try getting an unskilled job nowadays, see what your told

[jebus]

I would've thought the answer would be obvious.

So would I, but apparantly not!

[GavinZac]

It's all built on sand anyway. Try getting an unskilled job nowadays, see what your told

You'll either be told to work for the money that the poles find so great that they're willing to move countries for, or you'll be told to use our fantastic free education system to provide something of worth to our economy.

Limerick's plight is self inflicted since its people are slaves to a stereotype they havent shown any signs of eradicating.

[Lim till i die]

Also, what you cannot discount is that whether or not 44k sounds inflated, we're still higher than any other country. It is this comparison, or rather, the comparison to where we were, that we have to make to decide whether or not we're better off as a people than we were. I would've thought the answer would be obvious.

That's a ridiculous argument

Wealth distribution mate, really this is very basic stuff...........

[jebus]

You'll either be told to work for the money that the poles find so great that they're willing to move countries for, or you'll be told to use our fantastic free education system to provide something of worth to our economy.

Limerick's plight is self inflicted since its people are slaves to a stereotype they havent shown any signs of eradicating.

And you accuse me of making ignorant remarks? I suppose you do live in the land of Irish Independent headlines, so I wouldn't expect any better

[Lim till i die]

You'll either be told to work for the money that the poles find so great that they're willing to move countries for,

Is this guy for real??

You honestly can't see the difference between an immigrant Polish worker and a native one

or you'll be told to use our fantastic free education system to provide something of worth to our economy

The grant our government so graciously provides me is €140 a month

Try and live on it for a while

Limerick's plight is self inflicted since its people are slaves to a stereotype they havent shown any signs of eradicating

LMAO

Was talking about certain areas of Limerick which are blighted by poverty rather than the city as a whole.

Nice to see there's still people out there stupid enough to believe the hype though

As for it being self inflicted

[GavinZac]

That's a ridiculous argument

Wealth distribution mate, really this is very basic stuff...........

That was my point - Ireland is top in countries with more than 1 million people. In fact, there are apparantly 4 million of us, and a few hundred thousand foreigners too. Exactly how many fat cats are there out there, and how numerous before we can count them as being "average on the street"

And you accuse me of making ignorant remarks? I suppose you do live in the land of Irish Independent headlines, so I wouldn't expect any better

I said stereotype, which is obviously a contributing factor to the lack of any real investment in anything in limerick city, be it tourism or industry. I'm up in Limerick every week these days and my girlfriend lives there. Don't think I've ever bought an Irish Independent in my life, all i need to do is look at the empty spaces accumulating rubbish along the dock road.

[Lionel Ritchie]

You'll either be told to work for the money that the poles find so great that they're willing to move countries for, or you'll be told to use our fantastic free education system to provide something of worth to our economy.

Limerick's plight is self inflicted since its people are slaves to a stereotype they havent shown any signs of eradicating.

Gav -up until that closing doozy I thought you were just a bit gullible -now I reckon you're certifiably talking out your hole.

[GavinZac]

Is this guy for real??

You honestly can't see the difference between an immigrant Polish worker and a native one

No, im not "racist" as jebus said. they live here, they buy the same stuff as us and they pay the same rent. Why can't an Irish person do the same?

The grant our government so graciously provides me is €140 a month

Try and live on it for a while

What do you need a grant for? So you get a free education system PLUS €140 more than I get, and you're complaining?

As for it being self inflicted

The image of Limerick outside of the city is that it is a no-go area full of scumbags. By self inflicted, I mean I don't see much effort to lift this stereotypical image by your city council or by the people.

[jebus]

I said stereotype, which is obviously a contributing factor to the lack of any real investment in anything in limerick city, be it tourism or industry. I'm up in Limerick every week these days and my girlfriend lives there. Don't think I've ever bought an Irish Independent in my life, all i need to do is look at the empty spaces accumulating rubbish along the dock road.

Our tourism is actually in a healthy state, come up for the Riverfest this weekend and see for yourself if you wish, as for industry, well despite the fact Limerick is currently remodelling the city we are still have some of the biggest foreign company's investing in Ireland coming to the Shannonside area.

And I'm surprised that such an obvious upper-middle class Irishman such as yourself doesn't take his opinions from the Indo, I mean your comments about the Fianna Fail gravytrain, and the Limerick docklands area alone amkes me think that that rag is your number one source for information for the upcoming election