20 car pile up on M7 @ Naas

**Block G Raptor** · 27/03/2007, 10:14 AM

http://www.aaroadwatch.ie/traffic/story.asp?id=83920

**the 12 th man** · 27/03/2007, 10:37 AM

Seems a bad one.The County emergency plan in operation.Really bad fog the problem.

**Peadar** · 27/03/2007, 2:18 PM

Read that 28 people were injured.

**the 12 th man** · 27/03/2007, 2:33 PM

Some people that were stuck behind the crash didn't move for over 4 hours

**Over the post** · 28/03/2007, 10:56 AM

First in the history of the state, apparently. Sign of the times.

**Roadend** · 28/03/2007, 1:47 PM

Originally Posted by the 12 th man

Some people that were stuck behind the crash didn't move for over 4 hours

In the great entrepreneurial tradition, some guy arrived on in a chippy van to the traffic jam.

**Peadar** · 28/03/2007, 1:54 PM

Driver error should be made public here so that everyone can be made aware what the real cause of the carnage was. People need to have their responsibility, as road users, drilled into them.

Tragically, one person has lost their life in this but it could have been so much worse.

**Macy** · 28/03/2007, 2:30 PM

Clearly driver error was the main cause, however, there's a few contributory factors as well.

People not having lights on and not leaving a big enough gap shows up driver education in this country, as does the number of people this morning driving around with their fog lights on when visibility was fine as a result of the coverage of the crash.

Now that barriers have been put on the motorways and duallers, can they finally be brought up to a proper standard with electronic signage that can give information like "fog ahead" or speed limits/ recommendations?

Should dipped heads be a requirement all the time, as many drivers (going back to driver education) simply can't grasp the difference between being able to see where you are going, and other's ability to see you?

For so many drivers to be so poor, it must be down to more than driver attitude. The minor frustrations that we all experience such as lane discipline on motorways/ dual carriageways and indication at roundabouts are just symptoms of the wider problem of education that results in pile ups like yesterday.

**dfx-** · 28/03/2007, 4:48 PM

I'm waiting on someone to blame the government and demand that de Minister is hauled out before PrimeTime/LateLate Show/Questions and Answers/Bryan Dobson to explain what happened.

**dahamsta** · 28/03/2007, 5:50 PM

I blame the government and demand that de Minister is hauled out before PrimeTime/LateLate Show/Questions and Answers/Bryan Dobson to explain what happened.

**Macy** · 29/03/2007, 7:25 AM

Originally Posted by d f x-

I'm waiting on someone to blame the government and demand that de Minister is hauled out before PrimeTime/LateLate Show/Questions and Answers/Bryan Dobson to explain what happened.

Because failure to address the licencing/ testing system or the road signage is clearly not the responsibility of the people that have been in power for 10 years? Bertie, Cullen, McDowell, Noel Brett and Gay Byrne et al are quick enough to take credit when road deaths are down why shouldn't they be held responsible for contributory factors within their control?

**Newryrep** · 29/03/2007, 2:18 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

Because failure to address the licencing/ testing system or the road signage is clearly not the responsibility of the people that have been in power for 10 years? Bertie, Cullen, McDowell, Noel Brett and Gay Byrne et al are quick enough to take credit when road deaths are down why shouldn't they be held responsible for contributory factors within their control?

Macy i believe the vast majority of accidents are due to 3 reasons

1. Some people are just as thick as 2 short planks
2. Some people are just bad drivers
3. some people are both 1 and 2.

Regarding signage and recommended speed limits for fog, if you cant see far ahead of you slow down for fcuks sakel. I was travelling from Armagh to Monaghan to work one day and the fog was particulality bad in fact the worst i had ever seen and i was down to 10m/h as I litterally couldnt see past the end of the car.

An articulated truck passed me must of been doing 50m/h. the driver was one of the 3 options. You dont need the law to tell you to turn on your windscreen wipers when it is wet and you dont need to the law to tell you to slow down, keep your distance, turn on your lights when there is bad visibility, it is common sense.

**Macy** · 30/03/2007, 7:22 AM

I did say contributory factors, the main one being the appauling level of driver education. Drivers have to take responsibility, but that doesn't absolve the law makers and the RSA from any responsibility now. How long were we told there was no need for median crash barriers? How long after the fuss has died down before they quietly start introducing electronic signage on motorways too?

**Student Mullet** · 30/03/2007, 2:29 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

How long were we told there was no need for median crash barriers?

A mate of mine from college works in road design and he's quite angry about this. He's adamant that the original decision was correct, that crash barriers reduce safety in a lot of cases and that they're being put in because the politicians were embarrassed into doing it, not because it's the correct thing to do.

**pete** · 30/03/2007, 5:52 PM

Originally Posted by Student Mullet

A mate of mine from college works in road design and he's quite angry about this. He's adamant that the original decision was correct, that crash barriers reduce safety in a lot of cases and that they're being put in because the politicians were embarrassed into doing it, not because it's the correct thing to do.

Sorry but that is ********. The NRA based their original decision on 30 year US research. How can anyone suggest that an open median is better than a median with a crash barrier. How can a car to stopped by a hedge at 60 mph. Central barriers prevent head on collisions.

**John83** · 30/03/2007, 7:10 PM

Originally Posted by pete

Sorry but that is ********. The NRA based their original decision on 30 year US research. How can anyone suggest that an open median is better than a median with a crash barrier. How can a car to stopped by a hedge at 60 mph. Central barriers prevent head on collisions.

If you're going to call someone's opinion on a something so factual in nature *******, quote your reference. Otherwise, you're trolling, which is rich coming from a mod.

**Student Mullet** · 30/03/2007, 8:46 PM

Originally Posted by pete

Sorry but that is ********. The NRA based their original decision on 30 year US research. How can anyone suggest that an open median is better than a median with a crash barrier. How can a car to stopped by a hedge at 60 mph. Central barriers prevent head on collisions.

I'm only quoting what I was told but the argument is that central barriers prevent head on collisions but increase the number of collisions with barriers. After that it's a question of numbers, in what proportion do the two collisions occur and what are the chances of a death or serious injury in each one.

**dahamsta** · 30/03/2007, 9:49 PM

I don't want to see any more posts on road safety in this thread without references and links. I'll delete anything that doesn't.

adam

**pete** · 03/04/2007, 5:35 PM

Dail reply to question on crash barriers

Previously the NRA policy was to fit crash barriers to medians of less than 15 metres. A lot of new roads built with narrow medians so crash barriers fitted. However the NRA retro fitted roads already built with no crash barriers with no explanation.

IMO 15 metres is still not enough to stop a truck let alone a truck travelling at 60mph. At least if it hits the barrier & the traffic behind car see & has greater chance of avoiding. A vehicle moving at speed through a hedge into on coming traffic means a head-to-head collision (speed with naturally be higher) & almost no chance to avoid.

**compo** · 09/04/2007, 10:40 PM

Originally Posted by Peadar

Driver error should be made public here so that everyone can be made aware what the real cause of the carnage was. People need to have their responsibility, as road users, drilled into them.

Tragically, one person has lost their life in this but it could have been so much worse.

Gardai investigate and make reports on all road accidents they're called to. In the case of a plane crash or "incident", the report is made available to the public. Maybe the same should be done in the case of road traffic accidents. That way, we'd have statistical verification of how most accidents are caused. Might even embarrass people into being more careful. BTW, I think the main cause is the nut behind the wheel!