Angel signs for the Red Bulls

[Dodge]

Yep, Celtic were keen until they found out Toronto play on an artificial pitch (probably not the best surface for a player returning from a knee injury)

Lots of failed managers in New York. GEt the impression though that if they did win something it could really kick off in New York

[Poor Student]

I see that a playoff has been introduced between the Oceana champion and the J-League champion for the next competition.

[dcfcsteve]

So because they are few in number they don't matter?

Where did I say that ?

I merely said they had few fans (as well as no history etc), for which you accused me of being "ignorant". I've provided anecdotal evidnece to back this up - but now I'm somehow saying that fans don't matter...?

Yee see - that's just your UCD insecurities coming out now....

[dcfcsteve]

Few is relative Steve. They get bigger crowds than any LOI crowd.

And for a country 75 times bigger than ours, I should fcuking think so too !

NY Red Bulls only average 10,000 at a game. For a metropolitan area of about 15m people, that is p!ss poor

[jebus]

I think it is possible that the MLS could one day challenge European hegemony of the game but only if they continue to take incremental steps. There's talk of LA Galaxy going for Zidane which would blow the arse out of this "one marquee" player rule. Hopefully they'll stick with that for a while instead of going boom and bust on the back of the Beckham deal.

I heard its more likely that Zidane will sign for Chicago, given that every club is allowed break their wage structure for one player (the Beckham rule) that will enhance their club and the MLS in general. Chicago's owner said that there are only four foreign players in the world that America gives a damn about, Beckham, Zidane, Ronaldinho and the real Ronaldo, and since Ronaldinho is on the verge of signing a new deal at Barca, and Ronaldo will see out the next two years of his Milan contract that just leaves Zidane to come out of retirement

[Dodge]

Honest to christ steve, have you no sense at all

FFS

[Metrostars]

I've been away so I havent had a chance to read this thread until now. Just some background on me, I'm from Galway and supported GUFC (still do from afar) until I moved to the US 15 years ago.

I love the game of soccer as all of us do here but for me it is important to support my local team. So as to the Franchise versus Euro-Style club debate, I and many more like me dont have any choice. It's either support NYRB or just follow the Man Utds or Milan or Barcelona by watching on TV. It's like the whole LOI argument. Why do more Irish people support English teams than Irish teams? Sure, I would prefer to have a local club that is not owned by a fizzy drink company. But thats all there is for me here.

It did hurt when the fizzy drink company bought the Metrostars. But what were the Metrostars anyway? A franchise. The original team back in 1996 was created by the Metromedia company and aptly named it the Metrostars. It was then sold to AEG, an entertainment company who also owns a few other MLS teams as well as the LA Kings hockey and a few more hockey teams in Europe. Red Bull unashamidly is using the team as a marketing tool. We the fans do not have much choice in the matter. We can either go along for the ride or sit at home at watch teams play 3000 miles away on TV. But to disparage the fans who go to games regulary and know the game just as much as other fans around the world do as "goonish", "no support or identity" and "don't give a sh!t" would be the same if I said the same thing about Cork City or Drogheda etc.

I must say however that Red Bull have done more in 13 months then the other owners did in the previous 10 years. They brought in the best US manager (Arena), the best US player (Reyna) among others and started builing a new stadium: http://www.redbullpark.com/stadium_vision.html

As for the small crowds. Well there are a ton of reasons that would take all day to explain. MLS suffers from a lot of the same stigma that the LOI does especially regardin the standard of play. Add into the mix the ANTI-soccer types and the ones who ignore it because "its a foreign game" and it is always facing an uphill battle.

[dcfcsteve]

Honest to christ steve, have you no sense at all

FFS

Clearly not. So enlighten me, oh wise one.....

[dancinpants]

OK. So explain to me then please the detailed history and tradition behind NY/NJ Metrostars - a club that was in existence for barely over a decade, yet who's team colours and name still managed to go through a number of iterations. Or maybe it only takes a decade to deliver history and tradition these days.... .

So steve, are you saying that if Derry faced oblivion in 1995 after 10 years in the LOI, ye'd have understood if other fans thought, "sure f**k'em, they've only been here barely a decade and have nowt tradition, or history here"...?

[kingdom hoop]

NY Red Bulls only average 10,000 at a game. For a metropolitan area of about 15m people, that is p!ss poor

How wonderfully disingenuous of you!

OK. So explain to me then please the detailed history and tradition behind NY/NJ Metrostars - a club that was in existence for barely over a decade, yet who's team colours and name still managed to go through a number of iterations. Or maybe it only takes a decade to deliver history and tradition these days....

[dcfcsteve]

So steve, are you saying that if Derry faced oblivion in 1995 after 10 years in the LOI, ye'd have understood if other fans thought, "sure f**k'em, they've only been here barely a decade and have nowt tradition, or history here"...?

You know the answer to this one yourself Dancin' pants, so I've no idea why you're using such a poor example.

Derry City began playing senior football in 1928. We had 45 years in the Irish league under our belt before we joined the EL, and the whole saga over us leaving the IL shows clearly that we are a club with a strong and eventful history. Therefore, if we'd left the EL in 1995, this would still have been the case. You know this yourself.... !

Accrington Stanley would be another case in point, as they are returning to the senior ranks again next season. A team with plenty of history, events and tradition under their belt - even if they are born-again newcomers. Like energy, history can be neither be magiced-up nor destroyed, because the problem with history is that once it's happened - it's happened !

A more appropriate example would be Kildare. They only joined the senior football ranks in Ireland in 2002, have won nothing since then, have never been promoted, have a very small fanbase, and have been really rather unspectacular throughout. If they fell out of the EL tomorrow, or in 5 years time, then it would be completely fair to say that they had no history or tradition. An uneventful 5 years plying their trade in our first division has created neitehr for them. The same could not be said of Bray or Longford, for example - who in 22/23 years have carved out a corner of the historyu books for themselves via cups, promotions, titles, European exploits (inclspectacular failures) etc. Hell - Longford even have a tradition now of being rubbish in Europe !

That's the pain in the arse thing about history and tradition you see - you need time and events to develop/create them. Becoming a senior football team does not magicallty bestow either upon a team - as the likes of NY/NJ Metrostars, Dublin City (who ignored their history) and Kildare County have shown....

[dcfcsteve]

How wonderfully disingenuous of you!

How ?

Is 10,000 a good crowd for a metropolitan area twice the size of London, in a country 75 times the size of Ireland ???

[Metrostars]

Sorry Jebus, didn't get what you meant originally...

I still don't see it happening. Far too many club are built on being the best in a particular area. A competition of this magnitude would mean they'd have to devote so much time to it and they'd have too much to lose nationally.

Apart from the fact UEFA etc wouldn't allow it (I know, I know... naive etc)

PS... Toronto's current manager is Mo Johnstone

No need for MLS teams to join the CL. First off, they are not up to that level. Secondly we have the CCC - the Concacaf Champions Cup the equivalent of the CL. The winners of that go to the WCC.

On Mo Johnstone, he seemed to be a good manager during the course of a game but his talent assessment ability is very questionable.

[Dodge]

Clearly not. So enlighten me, oh wise one.....

No point you never listen to anybody...

[Metrostars]

How ?

Is 10,000 a good crowd for a metropolitan area twice the size of London, in a country 75 times the size of Ireland ???

Well of course you are right. 10,000 is a pitiful attendance. But I don't give a shyte whether 10,000 come to a game against Columbus or 80,000 fill up Giants Stadium like when we played Barcelona last August. The 10,000 fans who do come are not any less of a fan than the 2000 who go to see Derry City every other week. They still have the same commitment.

[Dodge]

Spot on metrostars. In fact they've the same commitment as the 8-900 that supported Derry (or Pats ot Galway etc etc) when they were rubbish a few seasons ago

[dcfcsteve]

No point you never listen to anybody...

Woo-hoo ! I only listen to those with something of value to say Dodge. Some day you'll surprise me....

Want a hand putting those toys back in yer pram...?

[dcfcsteve]

Well of course you are right. 10,000 is a pitiful attendance. But I don't give a shyte whether 10,000 come to a game against Columbus or 80,000 fill up Giants Stadium like when we played Barcelona last August. The 10,000 fans who do come are not any less of a fan than the 2000 who go to see Derry City every other week. They still have the same commitment.

I don't disagree with you.

This whole bullsh!t series of posts arose because Poor Student accused me of being "ignorant" for saying NY/NJ had poor support, no history and no tradition. When the facts clearly support this assertion, and I've posted the rationale to show that (I note that he's gone quiet since then...).

So can we quit with the whole bleeding heart 'one of my fans is just as good as one of yours, sniffle' nonesense, as it's not the issue here.

[Dodge]

This whole bullsh!t series of posts arose because Poor Student accused me of being "ignorant" for saying NY/NJ had poor support, no history and no tradition

Wrong as usual, he called you ignorent for saying their "goonish fans don't care"


But believe your own little story...

[kingdom hoop]

How ?

Is 10,000 a good crowd for a metropolitan area twice the size of London, in a country 75 times the size of Ireland ???

Look up the meaning of the word and it might make some more sense.

10,000 people is a reasonable crowd for a franchise that as you say is so devoid of history and tradition.


exacerbated by the anonymity and lack of community spirit of such a big city