What is the point of Part Time football

[finnpark]

I would imagine that Wexford Youths players are getting paid just as much as Harps players. It's called expenses

I don't think your right. I know what GAA players get ine xpenses and its nowhere near the average wage at Finn Harps. Plus teh Harps players also get expenses on top orf that.

[finnpark]

Having studied it at close quarters for five seasons, I feel that
the First Division is only a cottage industry for players who are not good
enough to play in the Premier, have attitude problems.

At lot of the players appear not to be physically fit, and clubs train only
twice a week. I would be fairly sure that the county footballers of Monaghan
and Kildare (just two examples) would be fitter than their EL counterparts.

GUFC was a cash cow for locals and other regional mercenaries when we were in the First. Easy money, low expectations, and the chance of more easy money at Limerick/Athlone/Sligo if you are released.

There are clubs in the FD paying out four figure sums weekly to Leinster Senior League players just so the FD club can finish 8th or 9th. A complete waste of money.

I think you have summed it all up correctly there.

[finnpark]

Suggesting that they go amateur, then. It wouldn't work either way I'm afraid.

Players are going to want a slice of what the club makes in gate receipts, simple as. That's how professionalism came about.

Why is teh GAA such a success. You can always get new talent to replace anyone with an ego.

[finnpark]

The idea of being part time is obvious. It enables you to sign the best players who aren't pro.

But the premier division teams have all the best part time players. The palyers 1st div teams are paying seem to be of a very low standard. As pointed out by a number of others on here, many of them seem very unfit, have big "beeer bellies" and can be seen out boozing at weekends.

[finnpark]

There are a fair few players in the Leinster Senior League who would be on 300 yoyos a week !!! And a very large chunk who's be on 150.

Same a s1st div then. Some people have more money than sense.

[finnpark]

semi pro is the way to go for the smaller clubs as if your amatuer youll have rebels in the squad who wont train cause there not gettin payed, and other would proably go to the gaa as they would be respected more in some cases, also you could have free reign on where you wanna go no limits the teams would be changeing by the week, football isnt like gaa your not anchored to a certain county you can move where you like with ease, also no prem club could snatch all the players, but they would take the best, so no first div club would make any progress, wexford youths will have to go pro for the simple reason other clubs will pay the players, and they wont have a squad to pick from even mick wallace said it himself they will more than likely have to go full time in a few year to progress up the table, wouldnt look to much into them for now it could be a gimmick for a year our so, but then again it could be the real thing

Yes go full time.

So tell me what is Cobh Ramblers been getting the past few seasons for paying your palyers. Promotion? Many Cups? Huge crowds?

[GavinZac]

lose players...easy replaced in 1st division as WYs prove. Lose fans...how would you. You would have more local players and the GAA has shown that mateur players get mor esupport from the community. Just look at WYs. People like watching people play for their local pride. Who gets biggest support- Kildare GAA or Kildare County FC, Kilkenny GAA or Kilkenny City fc. I think that answers that. Same in Donegal, Galway, Sligo etc

ok. you should tell more people about this, apparantly the system of semi-pro football throughout the world is inherently flawed. please, try to read people's arguments above about what would happen if each team was amatuer. how long do you think that would last.

Errr.... quite the opposite. Their fianancial security would be guaranteed. An extension of a club's yoputh system is ESSENTIAL for this league. Just look where Norway are ranked.

Amateur players are not tied by contract and as such can leave for free. The clubs would nto make money from having a youth system.

Those days are long gone. The pro clubs are dominating. In case you ahve not noticed but Roy Keane left Cobh for 10000 when he was 17 and Murphy left Waterford for 100000 when he was 20 so Im not sure what point your making there.

the point im making is that these players signed for small clubs, because they were semi-pro. the small club then either could have, or did make a big profit from his sale, and kept the club going. that is how small clubs around the world survive.

And why would clubs not generate more local talent this way instead of playing old beer belly type players that are playing these days..

because any good players will move anywhere they can be paid, be it abroad, or at the one semi-pro team in the league.

seriously, you're starting to sound as off the wall as that time mypost wanted players booked for playing in the corner of the pitch.

So tell me what is Cobh Ramblers been getting the past few seasons for paying your palyers. Promotion? Many Cups? Huge crowds?

Firstly, Cobh have a very young team of players who probably would otehrwise have dropped out of football if they had not been given a chance by ramblers. secondly, they have had good times and bad. that is football. drastic measures do not usually translate to instant success - more than likely, it translate to rapid failure. thirdly, they've just built a fantastic new stand. it is by improving the product on show that the eircom first division will start to attract bigger crowds, not by relegating themselves to sunday league football level, giving up on any hope of success.

[finnpark]

ok. you should tell more people about this, apparantly the system of semi-pro football throughout the world is inherently flawed. please, try to read people's arguments above about what would happen if each team was amatuer. how long do you think that would last..

In most countries players who have jobs are regarded as amateurs regardless of whether they get paid or not.

Amateur players are not tied by contract and as such can leave for free. The clubs would nto make money from having a youth system.

They could still be signed on contracts. Why wouldnt they? All amateur players should have contracts regardless whether or not they get money for it.

the point im making is that these players signed for small clubs, because they were semi-pro. the small club then either could have, or did make a big profit from his sale, and kept the club going. that is how small clubs around the world survive..

Name me the clubs that are making "big profit" from the sale of its players. I cannot think of one team

because any good players will move anywhere they can be paid, be it abroad, or at the one semi-pro team in the league.

They will still do this even if they get paid. How many palyers (who are getting paid) are moving abroad or to pro clubs. Part-time is not the answer PROFESSIONAL is.

Firstly, Cobh have a very young team of players who probably would otehrwise have dropped out of football if they had not been given a chance by ramblers. secondly, they have had good times and bad. that is football. drastic measures do not usually translate to instant success - more than likely, it translate to rapid failure. thirdly, they've just built a fantastic new stand. it is by improving the product on show that the eircom first division will start to attract bigger crowds, not by relegating themselves to sunday league football level, giving up on any hope of success.

Well as long as your happy It doesnt make any sense at all to me to pay amateur players.

[don ramo]

Yes go full time.

sorry meant to say wexfrod to go semi pro

So tell me what is Cobh Ramblers been getting the past few seasons for paying your palyers. Promotion? Many Cups? Huge crowds?

same as finn harps i suppose but we just didnt invest as much money in the team this year, we slashed the wage bill and still look like we have a good squad, you said yer wage bill is E7000 a week ours was similar last year but i find you get more slackers in a squad like that than a wage bill of E2000 a week as we found out last year a lot of people were here for the money, now we've cut the slack and are off to a good start one that we should be able to maintain and finnish in the top three, we havent won a cup sonce we entered the league but then again we never had any major investment, and now this is the probably one of the most talented squads weve had in a while and things may look up

[GavinZac]

In most countries players who have jobs are regarded as amateurs regardless of whether they get paid or not.

They could still be signed on contracts. Why wouldnt they? All amateur players should have contracts regardless whether or not they get money for it.

how old are you?

[don ramo]

Well as long as your happy It doesnt make any sense at all to me to pay amateur players.

yet you have a wage bill of E7000 a week compared to ours of E2000 and wexfords whos are E00000 a week, and yet your where in the table

you should get onto your board of management so

[finnpark]

yet you have a wage bill of E7000 a week compared to ours of E2000 and wexfords whos are E00000 a week, and yet your where in the table

you should get onto your board of management so

I agree totally. I cannot believe our players get paid. I know plenty of others who are just as good or better who would love to play (for nothing). Yes, Im slating the Finn Harps board.

If your wage bill is E2000 per week (E100 per player) then you are more or less amateur then.

[finnpark]

how old are you?

Im not sure why your asking but Im old enough to understand economics and contract law.

[finnpark]

sorry meant to say wexfrod to go semi pro



same as finn harps i suppose but we just didnt invest as much money in the team this year, we slashed the wage bill and still look like we have a good squad, you said yer wage bill is E7000 a week ours was similar last year but i find you get more slackers in a squad like that than a wage bill of E2000 a week as we found out last year a lot of people were here for the money, now we've cut the slack and are off to a good start one that we should be able to maintain and finnish in the top three, we havent won a cup sonce we entered the league but then again we never had any major investment, and now this is the probably one of the most talented squads weve had in a while and things may look up

Well you are agreeing totally with my point. Maybe the Cobh Ramblers board have seen the light.

Now cut back each palyer's wage by E100 and they will try even harder. The more you pay amateurs the less they try.

[GavinZac]

Im not sure why your asking but Im old enough to understand economics and contract law.

Ok, what exactly is the player gaining from signing a contract with no pay? why would he sign that? for the right to play for finn harps?

[finnpark]

Ok, what exactly is the player gaining from signing a contract with no pay? why would he sign that? for the right to play for finn harps?

Yes, all amateur clubs should be doing this anyway. Contracts should be at least 2 years with an optional 1 year extension at the end of each season. Most young players would love to get the chance to play in the LOI when they dont make their "dream move" to those foreign clubs who treat them like dirt. If the player turns out to very good there is nothing to stop them being signed up on a pro contract where he will train a numbe rof times each day with others on pro-contracts. But I cannot see the point in paying them to train 2 nights a week and play a game at the week. How many business' work this way? None apart from Eircom League soccer.

[GavinZac]

Most young players would love to get the chance to play in the LOI when they dont make their "dream move" to those foreign clubs who treat them like dirt.

This is where your argument falls apart.

Yes, it would make sense not to pay players if you could get away with it. You can't. end of.

well, you can only get away with it for so long and you might get to play in the champions league but sooner or later you end up where you belong!

[don ramo]

Well you are agreeing totally with my point. Maybe the Cobh Ramblers board have seen the light.

Now cut back each palyer's wage by E100 and they will try even harder. The more you pay amateurs the less they try.

yes we could pay them notin but i dont think they will stick around for notin , i think semi pro is a nice step to pro as i dont think a board of management could budget for the premier division, suddenly goin form payin notin to full time the clubs finances would fall apart as youd be used to amatuer, think what would happen if the gaa went full time tomorrow, i dont agree with givin a player E300 a week maybe 3-4 of the best alright just to keep them, but only 4 max, all the other will get E100 a week until they achieve somethin, and i dont mean finnishing second in the table but premier division football then you get your payrise fair is fair if your still in the samme division why should you get more money

[sniffa]

All players, no matter what they're being or not being paid are tied down by contract.
I think some on here are getting the contract of registration confused with a contract of conditions i.e. wages, if any.
The club have to register all players including U21 players to the league. Lets not forget that they both sign the same contract. The club hold the players registration so he can't just up and leave at a whim. And as we have all seen with Cork, a player can't chop and change clubs throughout a season/year.

Looking at Shels and the players there. Most of them would get a place on most LSL sides, earn as much if not more and know that the furthest league away game is within Leinster.
Then why oh why are they playing for Shels and travelling to the likes of Ballybofey, Cobh etc.
The only reason I can see is commitment. A commitment to better themselves and to see how much higher a standard of football they can strive to. Most see it as a shop window. But a willingness to play on low wages, train at least twice a week and travel the length and breadth of the country is in itself commitment.

[TommyT]

finnpark,

You're muddying the waters with going on about more or less amateur etc but you are basically right.

Clubs shouldn't pay out big money to guys only training two times a week. I think you' d agree though that some consideration (In the contract law sense) should be paid to players so clubs can control their contracts and potentially earn transfer fees.

Clubs should only pay out large (relatively speaking) sums to the type of player I mentioned earlier, a guy who can train four times a week, but works part-time to pay the rent or studies and uses the football to pay their way through college. Providing of course that they're good enough.

In the short term of course if Harps went down that road you'd lose a lot of players to the benches of premier division clubs and the Irish League.