Games moved for Live TV

**Steve Bruce** · 12/04/2007, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Don't Setanta pay �5k to the home team for every game they broadcast ? In which case, you'd need to lose more than c.350-450 off a gate for a rescheduled game (depending on balance between adult and child tickets) before it started to be financially detrimental for the clubs involved.

The weather you can't legislate for, so shouldn't be factored in. It could just as easily been sh!tty Friday and brilliant Monday, so is pointless worrying about.

Also - over on the Irish league threads, they're saying most people in the North are off Easter tuesday as well (?), so it's not like people had work to worry about next day.

I would say our rubbish form would have had a bigger impact on the crowd than having it on a Bank Holiday Monday. We're due a slump, given that our poor performances are starting to trend. I wouldn't be surprised if losing to Glentoran Reserves at home wasn't the start in such a slump.

On Easter Tuesday Linfield brought in excess of 2000(if not more, the Linfield end was packed) to Newry. Last season Easter Tuesday we brought in excess of 2500 to Lurgan. Obviously the distance isn't as great but I think this highlights the attitude difference between NI and ROI supporters.

I'm not going deride the LOI at all because it superior to the IL in so many ways eg Marketing, Overall standard, overall crowds & prestige. Although I don't think your facilities are that great, but that's something that seems to be improving in LOI football.

Anyway, back to what I was getting at. I think LOI are content on watching the home games only. Obviously you get your hardcore band that goes to every game, but on the whole compared to your home attendances the away support is very minimal.

Linfield for instance, we bring the vast majority of our home support away with us. If we play Institute there would be 2500 at the game in Drumahoe and the ground has been sold out more times than not when Linfield has visited.

When we play Ballymena or Coleraine we would take 1500+ to them games.

We went down to Dublin on a Monday night to play Shelbourne last season in the Setanta there was in excess of 1000 Linfield supporters that made the trip, bearing in mind people had to take time off work/school to make the trip down. Not a bad showing. We would double possibly treble that if the game was played on a Saturday.

Anyway my point is, the attitude of IL supporters is a lot different, the vast majority of people travel to away games, possibly down to routine.

Linfield and Glentoran aside, we might not be very many but what we do have travels.

Can I also make another observation?

----------------------------------------------------

The LOI is ahead of the IL, I admit that and accept that. There's no denying that. But a few things that I have noticed from traveling to Setanta cup games with Linfield, that I think could be improved.

1) Facilities(as I said before), I think a lot of grounds aren't quite up to scratch. I find that most grounds haven't the right standard of facilities for away fans and the grounds don't seem to have the capacity for even 1000 away fans for which if we where to have an all-island league it would be a major stumbling block as Linfield for instance would have a big demand that would be in excess of a 1000. Tolka Park is the best ground I have been in so far down south.

2) Security arrangements aren't great. I have never heard of an away support being held up for 15 minutes to let the home support away. This happened at Drogheda. Fortunately the crowd that came round to our end where not waving bats at us but gave us an applause, which was suprizing and pleasant especially after losing to us.

3) Every team gets a decent following in LOI football in excess of 1000 and often in excess of 2000. But it seems even for derby matches your crowds don't come close to 5 figures. Which to me I cannot understand and suprized about. Is it down to lack of facilities? Up here, although well behind Linfield vs Glentoran this boxing day had over 12,000 at it. Last season was the same and hte season before that there was 13000 on Boxing day and 14000 at the Oval(although there was only 11000 tickets, many people paid at the gate)

Again I'm not putting you down, just making a few observations and giving my opinion from the outside looking in.

I know the flaws of IL football(basically everything) so although I'm giving a few critisisms(which I hope comes across as constructive) I'm still slightly jealous that your league has got so many good things going for it eg tv, marketing, good standard(although not better than Linfield

) and getting a lot of exposure especially when some one does well in Europe.

**OneRedArmy** · 12/04/2007, 10:19 AM

A) Linfield are not a valid proxy for the rest of the Irish League; and

B) the "province" can be traversed in less than 90mins, with most away games being less than 45 mins away.

Anyone trying to cross Dublin alone will take over an hour on a Friday evening.

Derry are playing Waterford on Friday, which is a 7 hour journey down in Friday traffic. Try that a few times a year and see how many you bring.

Valid point on facilities though.

**Dodge** · 12/04/2007, 10:20 AM

From my IL experience, only Windsor park is better than anything down south. You can't honestly say that Shamrock park or Strangmore are btter grounds than Flancare or Dalymount or Turners Cross (the best IMO)

**David** · 12/04/2007, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by Dodge

From my IL experience, only Windsor park is better than anything down south. You can't honestly say that Shamrock park or Strangmore are btter grounds than Flancare or Dalymount or Turners Cross (the best IMO)

Never been to Turners Cross. Dalymount, Flancare and indeed Tolka are better than the rest of the IL. Others though do struggle and what frustrates Linfield supporters is the inability to cope with our travelling support.

**Dodge** · 12/04/2007, 10:30 AM

Which is fair enough, but I put most of that down to Garda incompetance than anything else

**David** · 12/04/2007, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Dodge

Which is fair enough, but I put most of that down to Garda incompetance than anything else

Well with Drogheda there is simply not the space for a large travelling support.

**Dodge** · 12/04/2007, 10:41 AM

Yep, hence the reason the ground is due to be demolished (see all the other threads for the Drogs ground debacle)

Apparently they're giving Shamrock 150 tickets for the upcoming leage game

**NY Hoop** · 12/04/2007, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by Dodge

Yep, hence the reason the ground is due to be demolished (see all the other threads for the Drogs ground debacle)

Apparently they're giving Shamrock 150 tickets for the upcoming leage game

Who?

I dont agree with changing fixtures at the drop of a hat. For example UCD are playing tonight instead of tomorrow because of a dinner! You cant blame the clubs for this as they have been trying this on for years. But the league should step in and say no. Same goes for thursday night fixtures.

As regards live tv playing on monday nights is daft. How about playing live on a saturday night. Guaranteed good crowd and with sizeable away support too. Even a sunday night is more acceptable.

As someone said the cork fans must have been livid with last mondays game. Why must we copy everthing in england? Just because they show live football on mondays does it mean we have to.......

KOH

**Steve Bruce** · 12/04/2007, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

A) Linfield are not a valid proxy for the rest of the Irish League; and

B) the "province" can be traversed in less than 90mins, with most away games being less than 45 mins away.

Anyone trying to cross Dublin alone will take over an hour on a Friday evening.

Derry are playing Waterford on Friday, which is a 7 hour journey down in Friday traffic. Try that a few times a year and see how many you bring.

Valid point on facilities though.

I wouldn't expect us to bring thousands to Waterford or Cork if it was an annual thing, but I would certainly expect 4 or 500.

**Steve Bruce** · 12/04/2007, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by David

Never been to Turners Cross. Dalymount, Flancare and indeed Tolka are better than the rest of the IL. Others though do struggle and what frustrates Linfield supporters is the inability to cope with our travelling support.

I agree, although I would have Mournview and Ballymena showgrounds up there as well.

**mypost** · 12/04/2007, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Good Friday was a holiday

Where?

Originally Posted by dodge

Crowds didn't/don't travel on Saturdays or Sundays either. You may get a few more but loads work at the weekend. We get that you despise Friday football but it obviously works for the majority so quit trying to make out that everyone hates it

As people work 24/7, the games have to be played sometime during the week. It doesn't take an Einstein to know that the majority of people work on Friday than Saturday, so logic dictates that you play games at the time when the most amount of people can go. That is not a Friday night, never was, and never will be.

We are the only league in Europe, to hold the main weekend's programme on Friday nights. Even the IL won't play then, and they have only short distances to travel.

**Dodge** · 12/04/2007, 12:08 PM

The reason that games were changed to Fridays was to avoid competition from tv ball and from junior soccer, where a sizeable percentage of LOI fans are involved. There's no doubting that changing to Fridays saw Dublin clubs receive a boost to their attendances in the late 80s, early 90s. It doesn't suit you, or away fans but changing to Sunday afternoons kills most attendances. Do you sacrifice 500 home fans for an extra 20 away fans? Friday nights work for Pats, Bohs, Shels, Cork etc

Oh and who cares if we're the only european league to play on Fridays?

**OneRedArmy** · 12/04/2007, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

I wouldn't expect us to bring thousands to Waterford or Cork if it was an annual thing, but I would certainly expect 4 or 500.

We face a 7 hour plus away journey 3 times a season. Do you have that many unemployed or otherwise so committed fans that they will take 3 days off work and another 10-15 half days off?

Don't get me wrong, we've brought 500 plus to Cork a few times for big cup games, but its normally in the 50-150 bracket and I can't see any Northern club bringing more once the novelty wears off.

How many do you bring away in Europe?

**pete** · 12/04/2007, 12:41 PM

LOI facilties not great but I think a lot better than the IL. Setanta Cup travelling support is not a reliable indicator of away support than an all-ireland league would bring.

Its funny to hear fans of dublin teams suggest Linfield don't have far to travel for away games when other dublin based fans complain about bus routes for lack of cross dublin support.

**ndrog** · 12/04/2007, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

Yep, hence the reason the ground is due to be demolished (see all the other threads for the Drogs ground debacle)

Apparently they're giving Shamrock 150 tickets for the upcoming leage game

all rovers fans will get into utd park for the game .Where do you get your info from

**Steve Bruce** · 12/04/2007, 1:16 PM

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

We face a 7 hour plus away journey 3 times a season. Do you have that many unemployed or otherwise so committed fans that they will take 3 days off work and another 10-15 half days off?

Don't get me wrong, we've brought 500 plus to Cork a few times for big cup games, but its normally in the 50-150 bracket and I can't see any Northern club bringing more once the novelty wears off.

How many do you bring away in Europe?

I for one have already taken days off this season to watch Linfield in the Setanta cup and so have many other people. Although I cannot give you anything concrete to back up my point because we dont have them distances. But it works both ways, you have anything concrete to back up your opinion that we wouldn't.

I would say that Linfield will always bring 4 or 500 to any away ground on this Island if we are allowed.

In Europe it fluctiates each season. It really depends on the draw. We brought 3 or 400 to Cyprus a while back. There was 120 or so in Norway, There was 87(i think that was the number) in Slovenia. There was around 1000 in Copenhagen(could be slightly more, not too sure). So it really depends on the draw. We had a couple hundred go over to England to watch a friendly against Harlow Town a week or so before our European game.

I hardly think European attendances really come into the equation. When it is a big amount of money to splash out on.

**eamo1** · 12/04/2007, 2:08 PM

did setanta publish a full list of up coming live games they will be showing???id appreciate somebody putting up a list.as i understand it they have the next 10 live games and then TG4 after that.
this is a good and lively debate on this thread,many valid points.it does get the casual fans talking though when they see their local team on t.v.a few fair weather galway utd fans after seeing the game vrs cork city on t.v asked me when is utd's next home game and then they came to it.its like they suddenly woke up from their appathy when they seen them of t.v.