Nurses Strike

**pete** · 12/04/2007, 4:11 PM

Originally Posted by Clifford

Not even close, the mineshafts were mild in comparisson at times. You don't have to accept it, I'm giving my wife's experiences, she left before she was beaten or bullied out of it like many before her. No word of a lie, no exaggeration. She used come home from work and pass out, physically sick most of the time. I accept she was one of the "honest" ones, cut out for the vocation from the age of 12, but it's not acceptable. In England where she nursed it was a treat in the much maligned NHS.

I have no personal knowledge so accept your comments. I suppose like many jobs its the people that care who get abused & overworked.

**soccerc** · 12/04/2007, 4:18 PM

Originally Posted by anto1208

BTW i didnt write those demands they are from the INO website dont see how i can be blamed for talking ****e .

Sorry to hear about the relapse but wouldnt you prefer the nurses to be looking after your friend rather than answering phones , opening buildings , cleaning toilets or sitting in pointless meetings ?

From the way it was posted there is no reference to where it came from so I took it as your view.

I would prefer nursing staff to nurse for their shift and if a meeting is required as a nursing matter then yes they should attend.

**Clifford** · 12/04/2007, 5:40 PM

Originally Posted by pete

I have no personal knowledge so accept your comments. I suppose like many jobs its the people that care who get abused & overworked.

Exactly sadly.

I meant to put a smilie thingy by the mineshift thing as well obviously as it's not that bad. There are too many issues, assaults/threats, management issues, staffing levels, colleagues who are shocking and should not be left dress themselves let alone a wound, colleagues who are fed up to the back teeth with the treatment so don't care/don't show up and at the very end in my opinion they would all like less hours and more money (shure wouldn't we all). As I say this strike has continued cos they are at such a low ebb.

One simple anecdote from my wifes experiences was that they were not allowed bring in their own lunch or even a bottle of water to take on refreshment when melting from the heat in a ward. So if she didn't eat what was on offer in the disgusting canteen, it was tough luck. I do not jest. That's what it boiled down to, no toilet breaks sometimes in a 12 hour shift, 1 person looking after a 25 patient ward on nights - happened my missus twice. Who would have been blamed if something went wrong? She went through the complaints procedure and is still awaiting an answer 16 months later, all she got was abused for being so "outspoken", the cheek of her.

**osarusan** · 13/04/2007, 1:31 AM

Originally Posted by pete

. Unfortunately its the private sector workers who will end up with pay increases to fund all these claims.

Is that what you meant to say?
Pay increases?

**GavinZac** · 13/04/2007, 1:36 AM

Originally Posted by Clifford

who think they have the right to walk all over someone because they chose to devote their lives to helping sick people.

I'm sorry but that sort of deification helps nobody. its a job. its a well paid job. its a rewarding job. its a sociable job. they are no more "devoting their lives to help sick people" than a pharmacist or your local copper. if people want to be treated like charity cases, start acting like it.

**Clifford** · 13/04/2007, 8:15 AM

Originally Posted by GavinZac

I'm sorry but that sort of deification helps nobody. its a job. its a well paid job. its a rewarding job. its a sociable job. they are no more "devoting their lives to help sick people" than a pharmacist or your local copper. if people want to be treated like charity cases, start acting like it.

Well that's your take on it, thanks for that. Still doesn't entitle people to treat them so badly. Cop's don't deserve to be treated like that either - they are and they are devoted to saving peoples lives as well in my book. Credit where credit is due.

You put it in the same catagory as someone selling pills, I don't to be honest, but there ya go.

No deification needed, just a small bit of response would suffice I'd imagine.

**pete** · 26/04/2007, 10:23 PM

Breaking News

Was reported on RTE news tonight that nurses unions rejected a 35 hour working week as not given a start date.

How do they think the HSE can remove 10% of the worked nursing hours from the system overnight?

I think they should take that offer & sell it as a victory as they won't get a better one. How long before someone dies during work stoppage? If patient care not affected by reduced nurse numbers maybe they not needed so much anyway?

**Macy** · 27/04/2007, 7:18 AM

Originally Posted by pete

How do they think the HSE can remove 10% of the worked nursing hours from the system overnight?

Did they ask for the start date to be tomorrow?

They're looking for a start date for the implementation, I've never heard them say they want it immediatly. Do you really expect them to take a wishy washy promise from Harney/ HSE at face value? They've one of those that goes back 27 years already. They are right to insist on a laid out time frame, as Harney and co don't know the meaning of good faith.

**pete** · 27/04/2007, 12:22 PM

FF/PDs may not be in government so is it correct that they negotiate a deal the a new government would be stuck with? For arguments sake FF/Pds could agree to 10% reduction in hours & 10% increase in pay. When a potential new government come in they have a queue of public sector unions queuing up for similar increases as the economy slows down...

Do nurses get 1 hour off every month to cash their pay cheque like the rest of the Dept of Health? Heard this first hand a few years ago that this was still given to staff despite everyone using direct debit.

How many new nurses would be needed to be employed to retain existing hours?

**Dodge** · 27/04/2007, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by pete

Do nurses get 1 hour off every month to cash their pay cheque like the rest of the Dept of Health? Heard this first hand a few years ago that this was still given to staff despite everyone using direct debit.

Not all staff. Just those recruited before a certain date (don't know it off hand). Its a civil service thing

**Clifford** · 10/05/2007, 11:00 AM

From eircom.net

Ms Harney also addressed the conference and said she hoped the protracted dispute between the Health Service Executive (HSE) and nursing unions the INO and Psychiatric Nurses' Association (PNA) would not get worse.

She also urged them to use the Government's National Implementation Body (NIB) and the benchmarking process to pursue their claim for a 10.6 per cent pay rise and the introduction of a 35-hour working week.

In a sometimes hostile atmosphere, Ms Harney was heckled and received no applause after the speech.

The nurses have been continuing a work-to-rule and have staged a series of work stoppages. Tomorrow, three-hour work stoppages will be staged at eight hospitals in Dublin, Cork, Galway and Sligo.

The HSE has given nurses until 5.30pm today to call off their work-to-rule or face a 13 per cent pay-cut.
The INO is holding a private session until 3pm when other politicians will address the meeting in Jury's hotel Ballsbridge. Speakers include Enda Kenny, Liz McManus, Caoimhghin O'Caolain, Joe Higgins, John Gormley and a representative from Fianna Fail.

No 1: Is this threat not bullying of the highest order?

No 2: So it's ok for them to play around with pay out of benchmarking, but not the other way round?

Good grief, they just don't get it do they?

**BohsPartisan** · 10/05/2007, 11:04 AM

Its comical the HSE feigning concern for the patients when it has been their mismanagement in conjunction with government policy that has lead to the sorry state of the health service.

**pete** · 10/05/2007, 11:28 AM

I don't know the details but apparently the Nurses Unions signed a deal some time ago whereby they got a pay rise in exchange for agreeing to deal with all pay disputes through the benchmarking process.

Assuming this is true then the current dispute is in clear breach hence the threat of pay cut?

**BohsPartisan** · 10/05/2007, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by pete

Assuming this is true then the current dispute is in clear breach hence the threat of pay cut?

Yeah but I'm for breaking these agreements. Did you see the guys that made it? Why are the representatives of the nurses old men, when a clear majority of nurses are women, most on the young side?

**GavinZac** · 10/05/2007, 1:09 PM

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

Yeah but I'm for breaking these agreements.

You think every public employee should be able to negotiate their own wages? it'll be chaos.

**BohsPartisan** · 10/05/2007, 1:11 PM

Originally Posted by GavinZac

You think every public employee should be able to negotiate their own wages? it'll be chaos.

No I believe in Free collective bargaining.

**GavinZac** · 10/05/2007, 1:21 PM

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

No I believe in Free collective bargaining.

All that leads to is "If the nurses get X, we want Y" - as already seen in this dispute, by na gardai. Union leaders are elected and if thats who the young women voted for, they can't then go on to claim oh, well, we didnt really mean it when we signed this agreement.

**BohsPartisan** · 10/05/2007, 1:27 PM

Originally Posted by GavinZac

Union leaders are elected

Don't know about the Nurses union in particular but in most cases Union General secretaries and other high officials are not elected. They are glorified bureaucrats who apply for the job the same way you and me applied for our jobs. Very hard to change this due to the undemocratic nature of many unions but needs to be done nonetheless.

As for your other point, so what? Workers in general have suffered under Partnership as their share of the national wealth substantially decreased. We did far better under FCB. Yet at the same time the country wasn't enveloped in Anarchy when we had FCB.

**pete** · 10/05/2007, 5:57 PM

I don't like unions but no point dwelling.

I also believe Benchmarking was a scam that the public sector unions got away with just as the Celtic bubble popped in 2001-02 (i think).

However based on the fact the state has entered into a contract with the public sector unions on the benchmarking we stuck with it for now. It seems the nurses previously signed a contract accepting benchmarking as the wage dispute mechanism, they accepted a significant pay rise for this.

The Labour court previously ruled on this & agreed that the nurses have to negotiate within benchmarking. If the nurses want out of benchmarking then fair enough but they should give back their pay rise & start separate negotiations outside that process.

The massive downside of benchmarking is that if one sector gets a pay rise then everyone else is queuing up & government current account expenditure rises by billions.

**BohsPartisan** · 10/05/2007, 9:58 PM

Originally Posted by pete

I also believe Benchmarking was a scam that the public sector unions got away with just as the Celtic bubble popped in 2001-02 (i think).

Benchmarking was a scam alright. Public servants have been ripped off royally by it. Its great for the higher grades but the ordinary schmoes get nothing out of it.