Better as a team without Keane!!

[galwayhoop]

Or maybe its a vindication of something thats been said for months now because I remember this dissatisfaction with Keane going a lot further back than yesterday but sure you ignore that if it suits. And the massive difference between last nights victory and Saturdays and San Marino's was the performance, which was direct, cohesive and hardworking. And who's to say we wouldn't have had that performance on Saturday without Keane playing his all over the shop superhero position. I said on other posts you don't need to write Keane off but he needs to take a look at himself and see how he fits into the side because for me we need to set up to get the best out of our wide players and that means giving them freedom and security with 3 in centre midfield.

i'm with you on this. i think it should be a direct choice of keane and s.ireland to play as the advanced midfielder / link player / creative player with doyle up front. i'm going with keane at the moment but ireland would make a good substitution or deputy if robbie is injured / unavailable.

[mickdlk]

Our best team is
Given
Finnan Dunne McShane O shea
McGeady Carsley Ireland Duff
Keano doyle

[galwayhoop]

Our best team is
Given
Finnan Dunne McShane O shea
McGeady Carsley Ireland Duff
Keano doyle

that 4 man midfield is much too weak for international football. both ireland and mcgeady are weak and exposed in a 4 man middle. and also physically they are both about 5'7" - 5'8" and very lightweight and pushed off the ball easily

[carloz]

This may sound a little strange but with Keane playing he would no doubt have been giving out about every decision to the referree, as he does in every damn game. This would obviously infuriate some refs and probably would have made it a bit more likely that he would have given the Slovaks a pnalty when Dunne pushed their player. I feel the only real reason he didnt give it was because it was a home town decision. I am a great fan of Keane when he is on form, an example of this was agaisnt Chelsea around Xmas in White Hart Lane when he tore Boulahrous to shreads. However his attitude should not be tolleratedm by managers and Stan should have the balls to bring this issue up with him. His flowing arms and constant shouting at the officials is just infuriating. How many times would you see Doyle do that....very rarely because he is a good honest pro. Keane seems to have a chip on his shoulder and having that armband on seem to enlarge the chip

[galwayhoop]

His flowing arms and constant shouting at the officials is just infuriating.

i honestly actually thought as the game started that it was going to be a nice change not to have to watch them flowing arms. seriously!

[Billsthoughts]

A small footballing nation like ourselves has to use all the talents at our disposal. IMO Doyle is the man in possesion as the main target man. He is more of a striker than Robbie. However if we are going to have a "number 10" role as well I would deffo have keane in there. But he shouldnt be captain and he shouldnt be picked unless he is playing well at club or country.but the same goes for everyone else.

[conlonn]

Robbie Keanes should be judged on his performances for Ireladn which are useless. He is living on scoring goal in WC last minute versus Germany. All his goals come against much lower ranked opposition and he never peforms against when he really has to. Given should be captain. Did you see him running to the halfway line taking to the other players and encouraging them. Keane is very self centred and thinks he is great. He needs to be reminded he has no special right to a place on the team and has to earn it

[galwayhoop]

Given should be captain. Did you see him running to the halfway line taking to the other players and encouraging them.

in fairness keane spends a lot of time running to the half way line although usually to talk to the ref!

in fairness if we employ the current formation i think keane will flourish in a role more suited to his strengths. also i think keane has struggled since quinn retired i.e. with no main target man. he is best suited playing off a big man or in a more withdrawn role.

agree with given for captain though. not helping keanes game at all and given is a natural for it.

[zinedineontour]

how fickle some people are . Robbie Keane will be back for Slovakia and rightly so. We were not world beaters we bet an average side 1-0 and played well but Keane would have added more to the side. It seems to be the current thread to slag off keane regardless of how he plays even though he did set up the goal on saturday and looked threatening. I would play doyle up front away from home with Keane behind him where Ireland played last night . The shape was much better last night yes but doesnt mean we will play better without our most talented player. The abuse Keane gets on here is over the top. Will be delighted to have him back in the team in September and those who talk of dropping him seem to be just jumping on the bandwagon. Now the one thing I would see would the captaincy should be taken from the lad as it does seem to be too big a weight on his shoulders which he does not need. Let the lad play his football and we will reap the rewards.

[zinedineontour]

Our best team is
Given
Finnan Dunne McShane O shea
McGeady Carsley Ireland Duff
Keano doyle

mc geady is still far too weak and gives away the ball far too much for international football. Hunt would be in on his recent cameos ahead of mc geady for me.

[zinedineontour]

Our best team is
Given
Finnan Dunne McShane O shea
McGeady Carsley Ireland Duff
Keano doyle

If everyone is fit the team i would pick is

given
finnan dunne mcshane oshea
s reid/s hunt carsley areid duff
keane doyle

[Irish_Praha]

On Saturday I thought "This is Wales at home, WTF are we doing with a 4-5-1??" When it is employed like it was with 2 or 3 players playing out of position it is dire to watch. However, I know it was only one half-decent performance, but I think when it's organised a bit better like yesterday with more of a 4-4-1-1 and the players in their right positions it gives us a more solid look than 4-4-2. The main reason for this is that we don't have 2 international-class players to form a decent CMF partnership in a 4-4-2. From Carsley, Quinn, Ireland, Millar, Kavanagh, A. Reid, S.Reid, Kilbane, Douglas, O'Shea there is no pair that I would trust to hold their own and create some chances for the forwards against any top side. For me the pair with the biggest potential would be Carsley and S. Reid but Reid is not very consitsent and Carsley is hardly the future. The 4-4-1-1 suites what we have available at the moment and what's exciting is that we have decent competition for most of positions. I'd persist with this formation until a decent CMF partnership is found (maybe when Garvan, Gibson and J. O'Brien have experience at playing in CMF at a higher level). We can bring out the 4-4-2 formation for playing against weaker teams.

My 1st choice 11 would be:

Given
Finnan---McShane--Dunne--O'Shea
Duff ---Carsley--S.Reid--Hunt
------------Keane--------
------------Doyle--------

Depending on form Ireland or A.Reid could play in Keane's position
and Stokes or Long could play in Doyle's position

McGeady could come on for Hunt

Again it shows we have an abundance of attacking players but are lacking in natural CMF players.
IMHO we have never had such quality available to us to come off the bench if someone is having a stinker.

[Rosco]

1) He's not a good captain because he does not lead by example, making
him captain was a bad mistake because you can't take it off him without causing problems...also he's not a leader...

2) He very rarely keeps to the positon he's asked to play...

3) Keeps falling over and crying to the ref...

4) Very rarely performs well in big matches..

My sentiements exactly, i stated number 2 on another post and got slated for it, a captain should lead from the back and move forward instead of on his arse.

[NeilMcD]

On Saturday I thought "This is Wales at home, WTF are we doing with a 4-5-1??" When it is employed like it was with 2 or 3 players playing out of position it is dire to watch. However, I know it was only one half-decent performance, but I think when it's organised a bit better like yesterday with more of a 4-4-1-1 and the players in their right positions it gives us a more solid look than 4-4-2. The main reason for this is that we don't have 2 international-class players to form a decent CMF partnership in a 4-4-2. From Carsley, Quinn, Ireland, Millar, Kavanagh, A. Reid, S.Reid, Kilbane, Douglas, O'Shea there is no pair that I would trust to hold their own and create some chances for the forwards against any top side. For me the pair with the biggest potential would be Carsley and S. Reid but Reid is not very consitsent and Carsley is hardly the future. The 4-4-1-1 suites what we have available at the moment and what's exciting is that we have decent competition for most of positions. I'd persist with this formation until a decent CMF partnership is found (maybe when Garvan, Gibson and J. O'Brien have experience at playing in CMF at a higher level). We can bring out the 4-4-2 formation for playing against weaker teams.

My 1st choice 11 would be:

Given
Finnan---McShane--Dunne--O'Shea
Duff ---Carsley--S.Reid--Hunt
------------Keane--------
------------Doyle--------

Depending on form Ireland or A.Reid could play in Keane's position
and Stokes or Long could play in Doyle's position

McGeady could come on for Hunt

Again it shows we have an abundance of attacking players but are lacking in natural CMF players.
IMHO we have never had such quality available to us to come off the bench if someone is having a stinker.

Very good post I agree totally with that.

[dr_peepee]

Eirebhoy got it right on another thread with

-----------------Given-----------------
Finnan--- McShane--- Dunne--- O'Shea-
------A.Reid--- Carsley--- S.Reid -------
---Duff----------------------- Keane---
-----------------Doyle-----------------


I think the same formation as against SLovakia with Keane in for McGeady is our best line up and offers more flexibility in terms of absorbing the loss of players and maximising what we have.

Keane wasn't great in front of goal against wales but was at the heart of what little was good about it too. People calling for him to be dropped should question their knowledge of the game.

Keane should start every game for the forseable future but under no circumstances be beyond substituting.

[OwlsFan]

Robbie Keanes should be judged on his performances for Ireladn which are useless. He is living on scoring goal in WC last minute versus Germany. All his goals come against much lower ranked opposition and he never peforms against when he really has to. Given should be captain. Did you see him running to the halfway line taking to the other players and encouraging them. Keane is very self centred and thinks he is great. He needs to be reminded he has no special right to a place on the team and has to earn it

The utter crap that is written here sometimes.

Keane is useless. He played the pass through to Ireland for the goal which counts as an assist. He should have had a penalty when he was taken down from behind.

He never performs when he has to and all the goals are against inferior opposition. Then you mention the German goal!! World Cup finalists. In the qualifying games he scored against Holland in Holland if memory serves me correctly. So what if he scores only against "inferior" opposition? We need someone to score against them as well

He is self-centred and thinks he is great: On what do you base this statement? Robbie comes across as a self-affacing individual to me and I always remember his gesture in not celebrating when he scored against Wolves, one of his old clubs. He has always made himself available to Ireland and never once dodged a game.

This is the thanks he gets from some "supporters"

[Nailer77]

Eirebhoy got it right on another thread with

-----------------Given-----------------
Finnan--- McShane--- Dunne--- O'Shea-
------A.Reid--- Carsley--- S.Reid -------
---Duff----------------------- Keane---
-----------------Doyle-----------------


I think the same formation as against SLovakia with Keane in for McGeady is our best line up and offers more flexibility in terms of absorbing the loss of players and maximising what we have.

Keane wasn't great in front of goal against wales but was at the heart of what little was good about it too. People calling for him to be dropped should question their knowledge of the game.

Keane should start every game for the forseable future but under no circumstances be beyond substituting.

You might want to question your own knowledge of the game if you want to start him as a LW, I thought we'd realised that shifting players into rolls they're unfamiliar with generally doesn't work too well.

People aren't advocating dropping Keane on the basis of his talent but more on the basis of his attitude. He's a ridiculously gifted player but contrast his attitude with Doyles and you'll see why people have a problem. Keane needs to concentrate on the game, not argueing with the ref and waving his arms about trying to look important and complicating matters. If he's to be dropped its as a message that he needs to pull his socks up and not because of his ability because with the formation we played the other night a willing Keane would be fantastic in that roll off Doyle. He might just need a wake up call

And I agree 100% with Irish_Praha's line up. On current form and availability thats the team I'd go with.

[carloz]

[QUOTE=Nailer77;657011]You might want to question your own knowledge of the game if you want to start him as a LW[QUOTE]

Well he has played on numerous occasions on the right wing for Spurs and was excellent there against Chelsea around Xmas

[stojkovic]

He never performs when he has to and all the goals are against inferior opposition. Then you mention the German goal!! World Cup finalists. In the qualifying games he scored against Holland in Holland if memory serves me correctly. So what if he scores only against "inferior" opposition? We need someone to score against them as well

In fairness, Mr OwlsFan, the point most people are making is that those goals you mention Keane scoring (also a cracker v Yugoslavia in 99), happened five or six years ago. He has not shown this form consistently since then.

[FarBeag]

An evaluation of Robbie's Irish Efforts over the last 8 years odd

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Born: 8- 7-1980
Country: Ireland
Caps: 71 (W37-D19-L15 – GF109-GA59 – %65.49)
Goals: 29 (% 0.41 per match)
Age First Cap: 17 yr 260 d 25- 3-1998 vs. Czech Republic 1-2
Age Last Cap: 26 yr 214 d 7- 2-2007 vs. San Marino 2-1
National Team Career: 8 yr 319 d


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Cap Goals Date Venue Opponent Score Competition
1 25- 3-98 Olomuc Czech Republic 1-2
2 22- 4-98 Dublin Argentina 0-2
3 23- 5-98 Dublin Mexico 0-0
4 5- 9-98 Dublin Croatia 2-0 European Ch. Qual.
5 2 2 14-10-98 Dublin Malta 5-0 European Ch. Qual.
6 2 10- 2-99 Dublin Paraguay 2-0
7 2 28- 4-99 Dublin Sweden 2-0
8 2 29- 5-99 Dublin N. Ireland 0-1
9 2 9- 6-99 Dublin Macedonia 1-0 European Ch. Qual.
10 1 3 1- 9-99 Dublin Yugoslavia 2-1 European Ch. Qual.
11 1 4 8- 9-99 La Valletta Malta 3-2 European Ch. Qual.
12 4 9-10-99 Skopje Macedonia 1-1 European Ch. Qual.
13 1 5 13-11-99 Dublin Turkey 1-1 European Ch. Qual.
14 1 6 23- 2-00 Dublin Czech Republic 3-2
15 6 26- 4-00 Dublin Greece 0-1
16 6 30- 5-00 Dublin Scotland 1-2
17 6 4- 6-00 Chicago Mexico 2-2 US Cup
18 6 11- 6-00 East Rutherford South Africa 2-1 US Cup
19 1 7 2- 9-00 Amsterdam Netherlands 2-2 World Cup Qualifier
20 7 7-10-00 Lisboa Portugal 1-1 World Cup Qualifier
21 7 11-10-00 Dublin Estonia 2-0 World Cup Qualifier
22 7 15-11-00 Dublin Finland 3-0
23 7 24- 3-01 Lefkosia Cyprus 4-0 World Cup Qualifier
24 7 28- 3-01 Barcelona Andorra 3-0 World Cup Qualifier
25 7 2- 6-01 Dublin Portugal 1-1 World Cup Qualifier
26 7 15- 8-01 Dublin Croatia 2-2
27 7 1- 9-01 Dublin Netherlands 1-0 World Cup Qualifier
28 1 8 10-11-01 Dublin Iran 2-0 World Cup Qualifier
29 8 15-11-01 Tehran Iran 0-1 World Cup Qualifier
30 1 9 13- 2-02 Dublin Russia 2-0
31 1 10 27- 3-02 Dublin Denmark 3-0
32 10 17- 4-02 Dublin United States 2-1
33 10 16- 5-02 Dublin Nigeria 1-2
34 10 1- 6-02 Niigata Cameroon 1-1 World Cup
35 1 11 5- 6-02 Ibaraki Germany 1-1 World Cup
36 1 12 11- 6-02 Yokohama Saudi Arabia 3-0 World Cup
37 1 13 16- 6-02 Suwon Spain 1-1 [1] World Cup
38 1 14 21- 8-02 Helsinki Finland 3-0
39 14 7- 9-02 Moskva Russia 2-4 European Ch. Qual.
40 14 16-10-02 Dublin Switzerland 1-2 European Ch. Qual.
41 14 2- 4-03 Tiranë Albania 0-0 European Ch. Qual.
42 14 30- 4-03 Dublin Norway 1-0
43 1 15 7- 6-03 Dublin Albania 2-1 European Ch. Qual.
44 1 16 11- 6-03 Dublin Georgia 2-0 European Ch. Qual.
45 16 19- 8-03 Dublin Australia 2-1
46 16 11-10-03 Basel Switzerland 0-2 European Ch. Qual.
47 2 18 18-11-03 Dublin Canada 3-0
48 18 18- 2-04 Dublin Brazil 0-0
49 1 19 31- 3-04 Dublin Czech Republic 2-1
50 19 27- 5-04 Dublin Romania 1-0
51 19 29- 5-04 London Nigeria 0-3 Unity Cup
52 1 20 5- 6-04 Amsterdam Netherlands 1-0
53 1 21 4- 9-04 Dublin Cyprus 3-0 World Cup Qualifier
54 21 8- 9-04 Basel Switzerland 1-1 World Cup Qualifier
55 21 9-10-04 Saint-Denis France 0-0 World Cup Qualifier
56 2 23 13-10-04 Dublin Faroe Island 2-0 World Cup Qualifier
57 1 24 16-11-04 Dublin Croatia 1-0
58 24 9- 2-05 Dublin Portugal 1-0
59 24 26- 3-05 Tel-Aviv Israel 1-1 World Cup Qualifier
60 24 29- 3-05 Dublin China 1-0
61 1 25 4- 6-05 Dublin Israel 2-2 World Cup Qualifier
62 25 7- 9-05 Dublin France 0-1 World Cup Qualifier
63 25 8-10-05 Lefkosia Cyprus 1-0 World Cup Qualifier
64 25 12-10-05 Dublin Switzerland 0-0 World Cup Qualifier
65 1 26 1- 3-06 Dublin Sweden 3-0
66 26 24- 5-06 Dublin Chile 0-1
67 26 2- 9-06 Stuttgart Germany 0-1 European Ch. Qual.
68 26 7-10-06 Lefkosia Cyprus 2-5 European Ch. Qual.
69 26 11-10-06 Dublin Czech Republic 1-1 European Ch. Qual.
70 3 29 15-11-06 Dublin San Marino 5-0 European Ch. Qual.
71 29 7- 2-07 Serravalle San Marino 2-1 European Ch. Qual.

[1] Ireland lost 2-3 on penalty kicks.


Total Record

Matches Won Draw Lost For Against Points Percentage
71 37 19 15 109- 59 93 65.49

Types of Matches Goals

Friendlies 28 10
World Cup Qualifier 18 6
World Cup 4 3
European Ch. Qual. 18 10
Other Tournaments 3 0

Total caps: 71 29