Better as a team without Keane!!

**Condex** · 29/03/2007, 11:09 AM

I think last nights match was an example of how as a team we play much better without Robbie Keane!!

He is without doubt a talented player but here are a few reason's why I think we're better off without him...

1) He's not a good captain because he does not lead by example, making
him captain was a bad mistake because you can't take it off him without causing problems...also he's not a leader...

2) He very rarely keeps to the positon he's asked to play...

3) Keeps falling over and crying to the ref...

4) Very rarely performs well in big matches..

**Nailer77** · 29/03/2007, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Condex

I think last nights match was an example of how as a team we play much better without Robbie Keane!!

He is without doubt a talented player but here are a few reason's why I think we're better off without him...

1) He's not a good captain because he does not lead by example, making
him captain was a bad mistake because you can't take it off him without causing problems...also he's not a leader...

2) He very rarely keeps to the positon he's asked to play...

3) Keeps falling over and crying to the ref...

4) Very rarely performs well in big matches..

We're defintely more direct and less complicated without him. Keane trys to do too much and seems to have a star player complex about him. Keane, like the team last night, needs to get back to basics. I'd leave the captaincy with Given and get Robbie to look at himself and see what he has to do to fit into this team. We should set ourselves up to get the best out of our wingers and Doyle is far better suited to being the lead striker than Keane. But Keanes too good a player to just write off, he just needs to realise that he's a cog in the machine. I'm pretty sure we won't and shouldn't start every game with a 451 and then Keane is crucial again provided he plays for the team.

**JimmyP** · 29/03/2007, 11:20 AM

My main problem with Keane is that he seems to be playing deeper and deeper with every game. There were times against Wales when he did not look remotely close to the normal positioning of a striker.

But then last night I noticed that as the game went on, Kevin Doyle started going fairly deep.
-> Are they being told to play this way, do they just do it naturally, or are they being forced to go there due to a lack of service?

**galwayhoop** · 29/03/2007, 11:27 AM

i personally think keane is better suited to a deeper position. he naturally drops off and as said above doyle is better suited to the CF role. i think keane playing in an attacking midfield role behind doyle would be good. espically as our next games are both away from home and we will more than likely have a 4-5-1 for both.

**Nailer77** · 29/03/2007, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by Ciaran

Dropping Ireland for Keane is probably the best idea for the next matches.

Well if Ireland is going to play that far forward then maybe but Ireland kept it simple and generally did the right things, Keane needs to start doing the same and not overelaborate. It'd be nice if he stopped the f**king moaning as well and concentrated on what was happening. Personally I'd prefer if we played with 3 centre mids with the wingers given more license to get forward.

**Saint Tom** · 29/03/2007, 11:40 AM

kevin doyle's tireless performance is evidence enough that we dont need that overrated waste of space. if i had my way he wouldn't disgrace the green jersey again

**elroy** · 29/03/2007, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by JimmyP

My main problem with Keane is that he seems to be playing deeper and deeper with every game. There were times against Wales when he did not look remotely close to the normal positioning of a striker.

But then last night I noticed that as the game went on, Kevin Doyle started going fairly deep.
-> Are they being told to play this way, do they just do it naturally, or are they being forced to go there due to a lack of service?

Hit the nail on the head there, he's playing way too deep lately! How many times on saturday was out on the wing, when he was needed inside. He took about 5/6 throw ins on sat.

Another problem is I think Doyle and Keane are very similar players. But no way would I be dropping Keane - he is our top scorer after all!

**bohsRap** · 29/03/2007, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by elroy

Another problem is I think Doyle and Keane are very similar players.

No i disagree. Doyle's more in your face up for the ball, someone to target. Keane's more ball on the deck run at the defender, give a pass into box or shoot.

**RogerMilla** · 29/03/2007, 11:55 AM

for the 25 minutes they were together in the wales game i thought they linked well , we really need it to become a partnership

**Nailer77** · 29/03/2007, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by elroy

Hit the nail on the head there, he's playing way too deep lately! How many times on saturday was out on the wing, when he was needed inside. He took about 5/6 throw ins on sat.

Another problem is I think Doyle and Keane are very similar players. But no way would I be dropping Keane - he is our top scorer after all!

Don't really think they're alike at all and really they should be able to form a good partnership but Keane needs to remember he's a forward not a forward/midfielder/winger/hero etc. I think the captaincy has given Robbie ideas about himself, get back to basics Robbie and play the role required of you.

**KopKiller** · 29/03/2007, 12:26 PM

Keane's best performances for club and country come when he plays off a target man e.g. Quinn, Doyle, Mido & Berbatov, he is clever at running onto flick ons and great at volleys but he has never played well as a lone striker, he doesnt have the presence and doesnt like having his back to goal. I think we will see him pick up his form if he gets a run with Doyle, potentially our best ever strike partnership but whether stan puts them together is another thing ... he prefers to 'bamboozle' the opposition (and our own fans) by playing players out of position.

But he definantly is NOT captain material, i dont understand why Shay or Dick Dunne didnt get it.

**John83** · 29/03/2007, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by KopKiller

Keane's best performances for club and country come when he plays off a target man e.g. Quinn, Doyle, Mido & Berbatov, he is clever at running onto flick ons and great at volleys but he has never played well as a lone striker, he doesnt have the presence and doesnt like having his back to goal. I think we will see him pick up his form if he gets a run with Doyle, potentially our best ever strike partnership but whether stan puts them together is another thing ... he prefers to 'bamboozle' the opposition (and our own fans) by playing players out of position.

Nail on the head. He works very nicely with a player like that, and can be ineffective when he's on his own. It's not because he's not trying or any of that guff, he's just not suited to that. As someone said, he might do nicely playing the role Stephen Ireland started in last night.

**citizenerased** · 29/03/2007, 12:33 PM

Yeah i agree, maybe if we played robbie behind doyle, and then drop kilbane for ireland in the centre next to carsley

**fergalr** · 29/03/2007, 12:41 PM

We played better without Keane. Its now up to him to earn his place in the team.

**OwlsFan** · 29/03/2007, 2:46 PM

If I could imagine a more suitable thread to the knee jerk fan, this is it. On the basis of one reasonable (no more than that) performance against an average side, the "team is much better without Robbie Keane".

Thankfully, he played against Wales since he played the pass to Ireland for the goal but let's forget that.

We are great now that Robbie isn't playing. All's well in the world. A humiliating defeat next game, bring back Robbie. Another defeat, get rid of Robbie etc etc

**Nailer77** · 29/03/2007, 2:55 PM

Originally Posted by OwlsFan

If I could imagine a more suitable thread to the knee jerk fan, this is it. On the basis of one reasonable (no more than that) performance against an average side, the "team is much better without Robbie Keane".

Thankfully, he played against Wales since he played the pass to Ireland for the goal but let's forget that.

We are great now that Robbie isn't playing. All's well in the world. A humiliating defeat next game, bring back Robbie. Another defeat, get rid of Robbie etc etc

Or maybe its a vindication of something thats been said for months now because I remember this dissatisfaction with Keane going a lot further back than yesterday but sure you ignore that if it suits. And the massive difference between last nights victory and Saturdays and San Marino's was the performance, which was direct, cohesive and hardworking. And who's to say we wouldn't have had that performance on Saturday without Keane playing his all over the shop superhero position. I said on other posts you don't need to write Keane off but he needs to take a look at himself and see how he fits into the side because for me we need to set up to get the best out of our wide players and that means giving them freedom and security with 3 in centre midfield.

**kingdom hoop** · 29/03/2007, 2:59 PM

Originally Posted by Nailer77

And who's to say we wouldn't have had that performance on Saturday without Keane playing his all over the shop superhero position. I said on other posts you don't need to write Keane off but he needs to take a look at himself and see how he fits into the side because for me we need to set up to get the best out of our wide players and that means giving them freedom and security with 3 in centre midfield.

it's worth noting the vigour we began yesterday's game with as opposed to saturdays. remember kilbane and carsley clattering into a slovak in the first minute. maybe it was shay's words in the huddle that did the trick

**galwayhoop** · 29/03/2007, 3:03 PM

Originally Posted by citizenerased

Yeah i agree, maybe if we played robbie behind doyle, and then drop kilbane for ireland in the centre next to carsley

ireland is a good ball player but not suitable to play the role kilbane played yesterday. i doubt he can even tackle and there is no point in putting a square peg into a round hole. just look at england trying to fit steven gerard and frank lampard into a 4 man midfield for evidence for this. ireland is only suitable as an attacking midfielder with 2 other central midfielders behind him. it's not a slur on him just a fact. i think he is a good player but feel he would be vastly exposed in CM like what happened in cyprus.

**Nailer77** · 29/03/2007, 3:03 PM

Originally Posted by kingdom hoop

it's worth noting the vigour we began yesterday's game with as opposed to saturdays. remember kilbane and carsley clattering into a slovak in the first minute. maybe it was shay's words in the huddle that did the trick

Yeh we're not blessed with a fantastic centre mid we have to accept that. They're good at what they do which is being physical but we are lucky in the we've got some quick, tricky wingers and 2 capable forwards so you set up to get the best out of them. I think two big physical guys in the middle with Ireland/A.Reid/Keane ahead of them suits us perfectly but I'd be inclined to go with more of a midfielder in the role than a forward dropping back, a lot depend on who you're playing of course.

**Nailer77** · 29/03/2007, 3:05 PM

Originally Posted by galwayhoop

ireland is a good ball player but not suitable to play the role kilbane played yesterday. i doubt he can even tackle and there is no point in putting a square peg into a round hole. just look at england trying to fit steven gerard and frank lampard into a 4 man midfield for evidence for this. ireland is only suitable as an attacking midfielder with 2 other central midfielders behind him. it's not a slur on him just a fact. i think he is a good player but feel he would be vastly exposed in CM like what happened in cyprus.

Thats true, even Arsenal don't often play with just Gilberto and Fabregas in the middle, they usually set up with 3 in their and two wide men pusing on. If we're solid in the middle we can let the others get on with the business of running amok and Ireland in the middle with one other wouldn't be solid at all.