Setanta Cup - The Verdict

**TommyT** · 27/03/2007, 9:36 PM

Setanta should re-structure the prize-money etc, with points/wins/away wins whatever counting for more than just the pot at the end for winning it. Also payments for paticipating could be increased with penalties imposed for not fielding a full team.

Nothing really against Derry/Nutsy but it's good to see defensive tactics get their just desserts over the last two televised games. Well done L...no I just can't say it.

**A face** · 27/03/2007, 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by micls

A bit off topic but how is the Setanta group decided if finishes even on points? Goal difference or results against one another? Thanks

Greater goal difference.
Most goals scored.
Most away goals scored.
Most points gained in matches between the clubs level on points.
Greater goal difference in matches between the clubs level on points.
Most goals scored in matches between the clubs level on points.
Most away goals scored in matches between the clubs level on points.
Best fair play record (1 point for each yellow card and 3 points for each red card received by players).
Draw of lots.

**Cymro** · 27/03/2007, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

From the matches I've seen I would have to second that.

Welsh Premier European results would also tend to third that.

Only on two occassions have Welsh Premier teams ever navigated past a round in Europe. And one of those was the absolute farce involving Longford, which was so freakish and absurd that it almost shouldn't count.....

Steve,

Barry Town won several ties in Europe during their reign of terror/brilliance (delete as applicable according to club loyalties). Highlights included drawing 3-3 with Aberdeen and beating Porto 3-1 both at Jenner Park. They were a very good side in their day.

Rhyl, Carmarthen, Llanelli all have won ties in the last few years. TNS probably would have by now with all the money pumped into them if they hadn't had to play Liverpool and Man City in that time.

Now I don't support those clubs as most of them are financially backed (paticularly Barry) but still credit where credit's due.

It's all well and good you and your mates saying the Eircom League is light years ahead of it but I don't recall that being the case on either of the occasions when our sides met your sides in Europe.

I think you're being very dismissive about the Longford-Carmarthen result. It happened and you can't ignore it and dismiss it like that. I honestly don't know how anyone can fluke a 5-1 win. 1-0, 2-0 or even 3-0 maybe, but not a 5-1 win.

Even supposing you're right and that was just a sheer flukey result. There was another meeting a few years back where Cork played Cwmbran. They only won on away goals, and that was in the inaugural season of the Welsh Premier. Standards have improved enormously since then.

Incidentally, what matches have you seen Steve? I saw the FAI final last year and I was impressed, but no way would I say it's miles ahead of what the top teams here are capable of. The bottom few teams are maybe different as we've got an 18 team league so top talent always tends to turn up at the top few clubs.

Ditto Rogue Trader-what teams do you watch as the teams in the Cardiff area are not the best.

**SwiftsSupporter** · 27/03/2007, 11:20 PM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

You've ground out a few cerdible results this year alright - which makes your drubbing last night all the more disappointing.

But how realistic are your chances of qualifying for next year ? You're 5 points behind the current 4th place team, who also have a game in-hand.

Well we have more than the league to play for and after the weekend I will be able to weigh up our chances better.

**R�iteoir** · 27/03/2007, 11:22 PM

Originally Posted by Cymro

Steve,

Barry Town won several ties in Europe during their reign of terror/brilliance (delete as applicable according to club loyalties). Highlights included drawing 3-3 with Aberdeen and beating Porto 3-1 both at Jenner Park. They were a very good side in their day.

What you forgot to mention was the first leg score:

FC Porto 8-0 Barry Town

"Porto made wholesale changes for the second leg tie, with captain Jorge Costa the only survivor from the first leg and prime tormentors Deco and Pena not making the trip to Wales."

Weakened Porto side there 8-0 up on agg - a major factor in that win for Barry

**Mr A** · 28/03/2007, 2:24 AM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

You've ground out a few cerdible results this year alright - which makes your drubbing last night all the more disappointing.

But how realistic are your chances of qualifying for next year ? You're 5 points behind the current 4th place team, who also have a game in-hand.

Dungannon are in the cup semis so have a fair chance of getting in that way.

**OneRedArmy** · 28/03/2007, 6:33 AM

Originally Posted by TommyT

Nothing really against Derry/Nutsy but it's good to see defensive tactics get their just desserts over the last two televised games. Well done L...no I just can't say it.

What defensive tactics?

**Dodge** · 28/03/2007, 7:43 AM

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

What defensive tactics?

5 in midfield at home to Pats.

**lofty9** · 28/03/2007, 9:07 AM

Originally Posted by Dodge

5 in midfield at home to Pats.

That was a disgrace. The fans let him know that too. I don't think we will ever see that again at the Brandywell in a league or cup match again. We were outstanding I thought for periods on Monday. I hope Tidman can now help the defence on Friday with a solid defensive goalkeeping display. Onwards and upwards..

**OneRedArmy** · 28/03/2007, 9:17 AM

Originally Posted by Dodge

5 in midfield at home to Pats.

Agree that was a disgrace, but whats that got to do with Monday's match against Linfield was my point

We played 4-4-2 and were anything but defensive.

**Sheridan** · 28/03/2007, 10:25 AM

I don't think Fenlon's teams have ever been defensive, they're just constrained by a rigid structure which doesn't afford them much atttacking latitude. He's become unshakably devoted to a style of play which is only half-evolved.

**OneRedArmy** · 28/03/2007, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by Sheridan

He's become unshakably devoted to a style of play which is only half-evolved.

A bit like himself then?

Apologies Pat, I'm fully behind you

**Schumi** · 28/03/2007, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

If the First Division winners were in a play-off with a team already in Setanta, would they get through regardless of the result or would it be solely if they won ? If the latter, it should be a cake-walk for them anyway so why bother in such a case ? Just put them straight through.

I'd assume the next team in the league would take part in the play-off in that case.

**Dodge** · 28/03/2007, 11:04 AM

Or Pats, if we haven't already qualified.

**CuanaD** · 28/03/2007, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by SwiftsSupporter

Well we have more than the league to play for and after the weekend I will be able to weigh up our chances better.

Good luck to ye then

Have to say, I've enjoyed watching Swifts in the Setanta the last couple of seasons - i hope you can qualify again, and then aim to go further next time.

**Jerry The Saint** · 28/03/2007, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

Or Pats, if we haven't already qualified.

It's like Jimmy White in the Masters Snooker - as soon as he wasn't good enough to qualify they brought in a wild-card play-off so he'd have at least one game in front of the Wembley crowd.

Same deal with the Setanta - the tournament isn't secure enough to survive without the involvement of its greatest entertainers...

**paudie** · 28/03/2007, 1:06 PM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

If the First Division winners were in a play-off with a team already in Setanta, would they get through regardless of the result or would it be solely if they won ? If the latter, it should be a cake-walk for them anyway so why bother in such a case ? Just put them straight through.

Hadn't thought of that.

If the league cup winners have already qualified the play off should definitely be scrapped. Who would go to see it?

Makes it much more likely that the First division winners will play in the Setanta.

**dcfcsteve** · 28/03/2007, 1:35 PM

Originally Posted by Jerry The Saint

Same deal with the Setanta - the tournament isn't secure enough to survive without the involvement of its greatest entertainers...

God knows how the Setanta cup limped throuhgh the last 2 years without St Pat's in it....!

And thank God Shelbourne collapsed to get you in there this year ! I fear that it would all have collapsed without your massive crowds, and huge TV-drawing reputation......

**Jerry The Saint** · 28/03/2007, 1:36 PM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

God knows how the Setanta cup limped throuhgh the last 2 years without St Pat's in it....!

And thank God Shelbourne collapsed to get you in there this year ! I fear that it would all have collapsed without your massive crowds, and huge TV-drawing reputation

POTM.

**Cymro** · 28/03/2007, 2:00 PM

Originally Posted by R�iteoir

What you forgot to mention was the first leg score:

FC Porto 8-0 Barry Town

"Porto made wholesale changes for the second leg tie, with captain Jorge Costa the only survivor from the first leg and prime tormentors Deco and Pena not making the trip to Wales."

Weakened Porto side there 8-0 up on agg - a major factor in that win for Barry

Touch�.

The side still had Ricardo Carvalho in it though!