Setanta Cup - The Verdict

bar linfield the IL teams seem to be very poor. i would like the setanta to be expanded to include both welsh and scotish teams. assuming that celtic and the darkside would have no interest how about the next placed scotish teams who don't qualify for europe. maybe reduce the amlount of teams to 2 from each country (if too many games became a problem). way forward from my viewpoint.

by introducing the other 2 celtic nations it would increase viewing figures in both scotland and wales.

Originally Posted by David

The patronising nonsense from Derry City fans in particular is annoying. Why criticise Linfield for wanting to do what most other clubs do ie play in the league of their own country? Yes I would like an AIL if the conditions are right but Linfield wanting to stay in their own league surely has to be respected.

But this is football, not politics. "Most other clubs" play in the league of their own country for 2 reasons. Firstly, and most fundamentally, because their leagues 'work' ; and secondly, because UEFA is trying its damnedest to make it difficult for clubs to move.

On the first reason : where the leagues don't work, the team(s) that are way stronger than the level of competition they can achieve domestically often either do play in other countries (e.g. FC Vaduz ; Cardiff /Swansea /Wrexham /Newport etc) or actively want to play in other countries (e.g. Celtic/Rangers).

And on the second reason : I suspect strongly that UEFA wouldn't stand in the way of an all-island league.

So that's the 2 usual reason as to why teams don't play outside their own country addressed with regards Linfield. Even a number of your own colleagues in the Irish League (e.g. Glentoran) are on-record as saying they would be happy with an AIL. Even your fellow clubs in the north don't feel the need to cling onto the concept of sport being dominated by the politicial boundaries on the island.

So it seems the whole "we want to play in our own country" arguement may just have as much to do with politics for Linfield as it does football. Sure - yee's already play outside your own country on a frequent and regular basis with the Setanta and Europe anyway.....

Do you aspire to the English Premiership as has been asked elsewhere?

Originally Posted by galwayhoop

bar linfield the IL teams seem to be very poor. i would like the setanta to be expanded to include both welsh and scotish teams. assuming that celtic and the darkside would have no interest how about the next placed scotish teams who don't qualify for europe. maybe reduce the amlount of teams to 2 from each country (if too many games became a problem). way forward from my viewpoint.

by introducing the other 2 celtic nations it would increase viewing figures in both scotland and wales.

Terrible idea regarding the scottish teams IMO. Very little in it for them, and davlues the whole thing if not including the top teams. Can't see how Inverness v Drogheda would appeal to many

Oh come on, surely everyone wants to see a repeat of the supercallygoballistic headline?

We can only speculate but i couldn't imagine that even one welsh team would be up to standard.

I get the impression all the Northern teams bar Linfield look at this competition and think they have no chance of winning it so they put out squad players in it. They are much more interested in their own league as can be seen from their preparations for European competitons. The Glentoran manager was giving out that he could not use some of his reserves for the match against last night so that tells you all you need to know about his motivation for this comp. They fairly strictly play games at 3pm on Saturday so Monday games are a real hassle for them especially seen as their part-time.
As for expanding the competition. To Welsh teams? From the league of wales? No thanks. To Cardiff, Swansea and Wrexham? They wouldnt be interested. They would treat it like they treat the FAW cup and put out their reserves.
If you were to ask SPL teams into it you are asking in more full-time teams and teams probably of a better standard than the eircom league teams, so where will this leave most of the Northern teams who are doing so badly against the eircom league. I honestly dont think they would be interested either. The whole logistics and cost of it are awkward as well especially for part-time teams who would have to travel to Scotland mid-week and probably have to pay for accomadation etc. Its bad enough as it is, Billy Woods was missing last night because of work commitments.
I think if the competition doesnt work in its current format then it wont work. If results keep going the way they are for the next year or two then it might not become viable anymore.

Originally Posted by Dodge

Terrible idea regarding the scottish teams IMO. Very little in it for them, and davlues the whole thing if not including the top teams. Can't see how Inverness v Drogheda would appeal to many

who is talking about inverness. i was more talking about hearts, hibs or aberdeen. as a matter of interest how many went to the recent bohs and aberdeen friendly? or when aberdeen were beaten recently in europe was it marked in some quarters as a watershed of sorts! ffs when derry hammered gretna it was a cause for celebration for the league!

i think the inclusion of scotish/welsh teams would attract interest TBH and if successiful then the old firm may be interested too or if the prize money was high enough i'd hazard that the old firm would be interested anyway.

Originally Posted by Risteard

We can only speculate but i couldn't imagine that even one welsh team would be up to standard.

Ask Longford about that.

The Setanta Cup is virtually the same as the BBC sponsored FAW Premier Cup

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAW_Premier_Cup

In my eyes its on a par with the league cup and needsa major shake up, starting with switching games to the weekend

Originally Posted by Risteard

We can only speculate but i couldn't imagine that even one welsh team would be up to standard.

how did longford (was it?) fare against welsh opposition (carmathen town??)recently enough! is the welsh league that much worse than the IL??

Crazy idea here.
How about some invites, similar to the Copa America?
Suggestions
Cardiff City
Swansea City
Crap championship/decent league1 teams.

Nothing in it for them. No chance of them accepting

I dunno.
Even to them, the prize money would be a little tempting and who cares if ten other teams turned it down first?
Scheduling would be a problem i suppose.

Originally Posted by Dodge

Nothing in it for them. No chance of them accepting

probably add to the farce of local irish people supporting the english lower league teams over their local club also

Originally Posted by galwayhoop

who is talking about inverness. i was more talking about hearts, hibs or aberdeen.

Originally Posted by galwayhoop

i would like the setanta to be expanded to include both welsh and scotish teams. assuming that celtic and the darkside would have no interest how about the next placed scotish teams who don't qualify for europe.

You're ruling out the top 4/5 in Scotland. Its a stoopid idea, as is inviting Welsh team. The only reason this cup exists is because Setanta Sports Ireland wanted to create an All ireland competition to fill their monday night schedules. If its not all Ireland, it won't exist.

Originally Posted by Dodge

You're ruling out the top 4/5 in Scotland. Its a stoopid idea, as is inviting Welsh team. The only reason this cup exists is because Setanta Sports Ireland wanted to create an All ireland competition to fill their monday night schedules. If its not all Ireland, it won't exist.

sorry badly worded by me in original post. rule out the scotish clubs who are still participating in europe at this stage of the season. don't think for one minute that setanta are doing this for the benefit of irish soccer. if they were to increase their viewing figures on say a tuesday or wednesday night by including scotish and welsh viewers as well as irish viewers do you not think they would go for it?

also if say €2 million prize money was on offer the teams mentioned above would jump at it. combined with income from supporters it would be a nice little earner for clubs.

i remember when the inter-toto was first started people said clubs would not have an interest but now they do.

i am merely offering suggestions for the enhancement of the tournement. in its current guise it is ufortunately not as successful as i originaly hoped. and added to the increase in setanta's popularity i reckon they might look at doing something to the format themselves. do you not think that the incclusion of other teams from neighbouring countries would raise the profile of the tournament and also in turn our league? a bit like the celtic league in rugby it could only be positive.

Originally Posted by Jerry The Saint

Maths Lesson:

3 GOALS (Pats) MINUS 1 GOAL ("Dodgy" peno) = 2 GOALS WHICH IS > 1 GOAL (Cork)

Maths Teacher = St Pats Fan, things are really starting to happen for ye. Delighted.
Sure ye'll hardly mind coming down for the final so.

Originally Posted by galwayhoop

also if say €2 million prize money was on offer the teams mentioned above would jump at it. combined with income from supporters it would be a nice little earner for clubs

The prize money this year is €150,000 for winners, €80,000 for runners up and all other partici[ants receive €20,000 so who's going to stump up the extra €1.7 million euro? Certainly not Setanta who, as good as they have been, are obviously looking for maximum reward from small stakes

Add in the cost of travelling to ireland every second week (on a Monday/Tuesday) and the fact they'd get rubbihs crowds at home and this would not be the money earner you think it would

if the tournament had increased potential viewing figures of wales and scotland then proportionally the increase in prize money would not be a great as you think. would the attendances be as bad as you think? i'm not sure. also i'm sure other sponsors would come on board if it were a multi-country event