Should the league adopt the split system?

**eirebhoy** · 22/03/2007, 5:02 PM

I notice that teams in the Eircom league just play each other 3 times and that's that. Considering the league can be won by a point, or even a goal, should they not have a fairer system? Who's to say Derry's home advantage over Cork and the big 3 Dublin teams Pats, Bohs and Rovers won't win the league for them? If a team can win the league on the luck of a draw it's not very fair.

Why not do what they do in Scotland? Each team plays each other 3 times. Obviously you just play as normal, aiming to finish as high as possible. The midtable clubs have the main aim to finish inside the top 6. After the 33 sets of games the league is then split into 2. If Celtic played Rangers at home twice and away once then they'll play them away after the split.

Celtic will play the following fixtures after the split:
Kilmarnock v Celtic
Celtic v Hearts
Rangers v Celtic
Celtic v Aberdeen
Hibernian v Celtic

Obviously they played Kilmarnock, Rangers and Hibs at home twice which is a huge advantage so they get to make it equal after the split. Maybe the team that finished 7th could have been unlucky with the draw but that's not too important. It's not only fairer but it's also more exciting.

Thoughts?

**charliesboots** · 22/03/2007, 5:04 PM

Rewind 15 years - they nicked it off us.

Back to the Ireland forum with you

**pineapple stu** · 22/03/2007, 5:11 PM

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

If Celtic played Rangers at home twice and away once then they'll play them away after the split.

Doesn't necessarily work that way though.

Consider a hypothetical situation where Team A play the bottom six at home twice and the top five away twice. Now the only way to balance things is to give Team A five home games after the split, which obviously doesn't make sense. Any imbalance in the home/away split between bottom half and top half opponents will lead to this problem. So the notion that it smoothes out the problems of a 3-round league is a myth.

Also, it was done around 93-95, and dropped. And good riddance to it.

**eirebhoy** · 22/03/2007, 5:12 PM

Originally Posted by charliesboots

Rewind 15 years - they nicked it off us.

Seriously? In 94/95 it was a 33 game season. Why did they change back?

**pineapple stu** · 22/03/2007, 5:15 PM

Because it's a silly idea, basically.

92/93 and 93/94 were the seasons it was in use.

**eirebhoy** · 22/03/2007, 5:15 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Consider a hypothetical situation where Team A play the bottom six at home twice and the top five away twice. Now the only way to balance things is to give Team A five home games after the split, which obviously doesn't make sense. Any imbalance in the home/away split between bottom half and top half opponents will lead to this problem. So the notion that it smoothes out the problems of a 3-round league is a myth.

I don't understand your point. If Team A play the 5 best teams in the league twice away from home it's not very fair is it?

**pineapple stu** · 22/03/2007, 5:17 PM

But the point is -
(a) You can't know in advance which are going to be the top five and the bottom six teams, so you can't plan for that and
(b) in such an eventuality (or slightly less extreme examples, as I noted), the split system actually accentuates the problem, and forces you to have clubs playing each other three times at home and once away, or vice versa.

**eirebhoy** · 22/03/2007, 5:20 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

But the point is -
(a) You can't know in advance which are going to be the top five and the bottom six teams, so you can't plan for that and
(b) in such an eventuality (or slightly less extreme examples, as I noted), the split system actually accentuates the problem, and forces you to have clubs playing each other three times at home and once away, or vice versa.

That's not how it works at all. No matter what you'll play all your rivals in the league twice at home and twice away. You'll play the teams in the other half of the table once away and twice home or vice versa.

**Jerry The Saint** · 22/03/2007, 5:21 PM

One of the very least successful of the "ah sure, let's give it a go" schemes that have blighted the league in this country down the years (and that's some achievement).

Such a bad idea that league titles won in those two seasons are regarded as inferior championships - about the level of the Leinster Senior Cup.

**eirebhoy** · 22/03/2007, 5:23 PM

How? I'd love to know.

**pineapple stu** · 22/03/2007, 5:25 PM

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

That's not how it works at all. No matter what you'll play every team in the league twice at home and twice away.

OK. Show me how it works in the system I described.

UCD have qualified for the top six along with Bohs, Derry, Cork, Drogheda and Pat's. We've played them each twice at home and once away to get there. We've played Sligo, Waterford, Bray, Longford, Galway and Rovers once at home and twice away. We now have one more match to play against Bohs, Derry, Cork, Drogheda and Pat's.

Show me how we play those teams twice at home and twice away without ending up with a completely lop-sided fixture list.

**TommyT** · 22/03/2007, 5:27 PM

Originally Posted by Jerry The Saint

One of the very least successful of the "ah sure, let's give it a go" schemes that have blighted the league in this country down the years (and that's some achievement).

Such a bad idea that league titles won in those two seasons are regarded as inferior championships - about the level of the Leinster Senior Cup.

Actually made the league harder to win !

Other than that you're 100% correct. The Pats-Rovers game at Harold's Cross the first year of it is seared into my memory for it's complete awfulness.

**eirebhoy** · 22/03/2007, 5:32 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Show me how we play those teams twice at home and twice away without ending up with a completely lop-sided fixture list.

They obviously play them all away from home. What's wrong with that? At the end of the season they'll have played Derry twice at home and twice away. They'll have played Cork twice home and twice away. They'll have played Pats, Bohs and Drogheda twice home and twice away. As I said, it may be unfair that they actually got into the top 6 in the first place due to the draw but it's better than a team winning the league because of the luck of a draw.

A team can win the current league because they got lucky with the fixture list. I don't see how you can win the current SPL because of the luck of the draw.

**R�iteoir** · 22/03/2007, 5:36 PM

Stupid idea best suited to the Silly Pointless League

**eirebhoy** · 22/03/2007, 5:36 PM

How so? Come on, you can do better than that.

**pineapple stu** · 22/03/2007, 5:37 PM

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

They obviously play them all away from home.

So you're quite happy with a league format which offers clubs the possibility of 16 home games and 22 away games? Your only justification for this appears to be that games against "smaller" clubs don't count.

I think I've just won this argument anyway.

**John83** · 22/03/2007, 5:38 PM

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

They obviously play them all away from home. What's wrong with that? At the end of the season they'll have played Derry twice at home and twice away. They'll have played Cork twice home and twice away. They'll have played Pats, Bohs and Drogheda twice home and twice away. As I said, it may be unfair that they actually got into the top 6 in the first place due to the draw but it's better than a team winning the league because of the luck of a draw.

A team can win the current league because they got lucky with the fixture list. I don't see how you can win the current SPL because of the luck of the draw.

And in 38 league games we'd have played 22 games away from home. That's fair?

**eirebhoy** · 22/03/2007, 5:42 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

So you're quite happy with a league format which offers clubs the possibility of 16 home games and 22 away games? Your only justification for this appears to be that games against "smaller" clubs don't count.

I think I've just won this argument anyway.

My brain is getting confused at this stage but if that's the case then your argument is certainly won. I think I need a rest and come back to it later.

Anyway, it has certainly worked in the SPL so far with no problems like that happening.

**pineapple stu** · 22/03/2007, 5:53 PM

That's because the problem I noted is highly unlikely. However, all it needs is, say, us playing two of the top five at home twice and four of the bottom six away twice and you've again got a problem - 17 home games and 16 away games before the break, and after the break three home games and two away games to sort the differential in the top section, which leaves you overall with 20 home games and 18 away games.

It's nonsense. Trust me.

Edit - in fact, here's last year's SPL results grid. You can see the following fixtures are played three times, with the "return" played only once -

Hearts v Aberdeen
Motherwell v Dundee United
Aberdeen v Hibs
Livi v Caley Thistle
Aberdeen v Kilmarnock

Aberdeen played 20 home games and 18 away games, while ICT played 18 home games and 20 away games.

**kdjaC** · 22/03/2007, 7:42 PM

EB you have to think why is was put in, in the SPL, not out of "hey lets try this" but "jaysus the league is **** outside of the top 2" so the relegation and Uefa spots are decided this way to try garner some excitement from fans of teams who have nothing to play for. Now they do with this system.

Over here there is no top 2 who always win the league but rather well in last 20 years or so theres been quite a few. This year it could be Derry/Drogs/Cork so really no need to to in a multiball type system.

kdjac