All-Ireland League not practical � Jeffrey

**dcfcsteve** · 21/03/2007, 9:39 PM

Originally Posted by Da Real Rover

To be honest i feel that shamrock rovers is the biggest club in ireland, imo the had enormous crowds milltown and they still achieve not far off your own attendances with no home ground. they also fill out the other criteria you have set down barring the stadium, hopefully that will be rectified soon.

Did you forget the smiley on there DRR, as you have to be having a laugh here, right ?!?!

Rovers the biggest club in Ireland ? Absolutely no way. Milltown Schmiltown - that was 20 years ago. Luton Town, Wimbledon and Oxford United were in the top level in England 20 years ago and were therefore big clubs attracting big crowds. Does that make them well supported now..... ?

Rovers aren't even the best supported club in Dublin these days - let alone the EL or island.

And if the past makes a club big - why isn't Derry City the bighest club ? Back when Ropvers were still in Milltown, we were attracting 10,000 sell-outs to home games and taking 4-5,000 to away games every week. They didn't evemn come close to crowds like that in their final few Milltowen years. Why does historical situation make Rovers a big club and not Derry ? Unclear logic here methinks...

**Schumi** · 22/03/2007, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Rovers aren't even the best supported club in Dublin these days - let alone the EL or island.

Rovers are still the biggest club in Dublin IMO. Their crowds are still close to the highest in Dublin despite renting different grounds for years miles away from their heartland and are the top name in Dublin football for those who don't follow anyone.

**WeAreRovers** · 22/03/2007, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by Schumi

Rovers are still the biggest club in Dublin IMO. Their crowds are still close to the highest in Dublin despite renting different grounds for years miles away from their heartland and are the top name in Dublin football for those who don't follow anyone.

Of course, ask any Taxi Driver.

Our 22,000 on the first day in the RDS is testament to our (very) latent pulling-power. Just don't tell dcfcsteve - he has a bee in his bonnet about it.

KOH

**wws** · 22/03/2007, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by WeAreRovers

Of course, ask any Taxi Driver.

Our 22,000 on the first day in the RDS is testament to our (very) latent pulling-power. Just don't tell dcfcsteve - he has a bee in his bonnet about it.

KOH

ahem....There for the Patricks as I recall

**Da Real Rover** · 22/03/2007, 1:09 PM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Did you forget the smiley on there DRR, as you have to be having a laugh here, right ?!?!

Rovers the biggest club in Ireland ? Absolutely no way. Milltown Schmiltown - that was 20 years ago. Luton Town, Wimbledon and Oxford United were in the top level in England 20 years ago and were therefore big clubs attracting big crowds. Does that make them well supported now..... ?

Rovers aren't even the best supported club in Dublin these days - let alone the EL or island.

And if the past makes a club big - why isn't Derry City the bighest club ? Back when Ropvers were still in Milltown, we were attracting 10,000 sell-outs to home games and taking 4-5,000 to away games every week. They didn't evemn come close to crowds like that in their final few Milltowen years. Why does historical situation make Rovers a big club and not Derry ? Unclear logic here methinks...

As set down by the linfield fan, the requirements of the biggest club are, brand, history, ground, support etc. This wholey incompassing the past as well as the present.

I am aware that derry did pull large crowds in the past but nothing compared to shams. Just my opinion but the brand and the support and the heritage of shams are the biggest in ireland. They do lack a ground but surely that is testement to their support that they still pull decent attendances, as stated by the ucd fan.
Sound and evident logic methinks...

**rebelarmyexile** · 25/03/2007, 6:23 PM

pity about jeffreys negative opinions on All Ireland League. I would love to see something like the Rugby Magners League operating with the top soccer clubs on the Island, and therefore their would be no loss of Europe places.

**dcfcsteve** · 25/03/2007, 7:13 PM

Originally Posted by rebelarmyexile

pity about jeffreys negative opinions on All Ireland League. I would love to see something like the Rugby Magners League operating with the top soccer clubs on the Island, and therefore their would be no loss of Europe places.

The European places arguement is a total red herring.

Each team in the Irish League and Eircom League can currently compete for a maximum of 4 European spots each. In an AIL each team would still have 4 European slots to compete for.

Yes - competition for those slots will have increased, but that's the whole idea ! Also - you would get increased competition for European slots from ANY major changes you did even WITHIN the current individual league structures if they were ket separate : e.g. when the EL expanded in 1984-1985 (bringing in frequent European entrants like Cork, Longford, Derry and Bray).

If each team on the island was able to compete for 1 of the 8 Euro spots combined then yes - there would be a reduction in Euro slots for teams. But in reality, as every team north and south would still have a total of 4 slots to play for, all that would've changed would be the level of compeition for those slts. Which would be a good thing in itself....

**Schumi** · 25/03/2007, 9:40 PM

Not this again.

Clubs would on average be in Europe less often in an AIL with four places than under the present system, therefore European places are not a red herring.

**BohsPartisan** · 26/03/2007, 4:38 PM

Originally Posted by wws

Pats are a by a mile but you'll always get the partizan leanings from the less objective posters rendering the argument futile.

How are you the biggest club by a mile. Believing McCadden's hype now are we?

**dcfcsteve** · 26/03/2007, 5:09 PM

Originally Posted by Schumi

Not this again.

Clubs would on average be in Europe less often in an AIL with four places than under the present system, therefore European places are not a red herring.

Clubs would only be in Europe less often if they won less trophies or finished less higher in the league. Nobody would be taking places off of them - they'd be their's to win or lose. Obviously you would go from 2 league winners to only one, but for individual teams like Derry, Cork and Linfield, for example, I doubt it would impact their Euro appearances all that much beyong the short term.

For example - do you honestly think, on Setanta results, that Linfield wouldn't be top 4 in the EL on a frequent basis, and wouldn't be decent contenders for an AIL Cup ? How would they therefore have a substantially lower average attendance rate in Europe ?

Also - Derry, Cork, Longford and Bray have reduced other EL club's average frequency of appearance in Europe. Should we not therefore have expanded the league in 1984-85 ?

Hence it's just an excuse. The IL clubs don't take Europe serious anyway - which highlights how fishy this objection is. Make no mistake - its political objections dressed up in a football strip...

**Jerry The Saint** · 26/03/2007, 5:16 PM

Originally Posted by wws

Pats are a by a mile but you'll always get the partizan leanings from the less objective posters rendering the argument futile.

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

How are you the biggest club by a mile. Believing McCadden's hype now are we?

Nicely predicted, wws.

**Dodge** · 26/03/2007, 5:30 PM

wws - psychic, scholar and footballing genius

**AnnaghRed** · 26/03/2007, 6:34 PM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

The IL clubs don't take Europe serious anyway...

While Irish League clubs don't seriously expect to do well in Europe, they still take qualification seriously.

Ronnie McFall was interviewed after this weekends 4-2 victory at Donegal Celtic and while he discounted Portadowns title hopes, he claimed that a UEFA cup place was still up for grabs.

No mention of the Setanta, which leads me to believe he, like many fans, views it as a purely financially driven distraction, at the business end of the season.

Cork City are at Shamrock Park about now, less than a mile from where I sit at a PC screen.....and yet i'll be there for the visit of lowly Larne on friday night.

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

which highlights how fishy this objection is. Make no mistake - its political objections dressed up in a football strip...

You'll be saying the objection is sectarian before much longer

Next season there will be 8 Irish clubs competing in various european competitions. In an AIL [which i probably would support, if structured correctly] there'd only be 4.

Its a perfectly legitimate objection from where i'm sitting.

**dcfcsteve** · 26/03/2007, 11:51 PM

After the shambolic showing of the Irish League clubs, there is zero point in having an all-island league with anyone other than Linfield.

The rest would be welcome in our first division though I guess.....

**dcfcsteve** · 26/03/2007, 11:56 PM

Originally Posted by AnnaghRed

fNext season there will be 8 Irish clubs competing in various european competitions. In an AIL [which i probably would support, if structured correctly] there'd only be 4.

Its a perfectly legitimate objection from where i'm sitting.

8 in Europe - but not all competing with each other to get into Europe, and not all entitled to one of those 8 slots.

Hence why it is no more a legitimate objection than expanding the size of the IL first division was - which also created a situation where more teams were fighting for the same number of IL European slots, hence making qualification for them tougher.

Where was Jeffreys/Linfield and their European rant when the IL Premier division was expanded to 16 teams......?

**Poor Student** · 27/03/2007, 12:12 AM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Where was Jeffreys/Linfield and their European rant when the IL Premier division was expanded to 16 teams......?

I think that's exactly the point being made. It's a qualitative as well as a quantitative issue, even more so. Linfield would find it more difficult to qualify for Europe (particularly the CL) when competing with Derry, Cork, Pat's, Bohs, Drogs etc. European qualification is practically sewn up for Linfield before the season begins. In an AIL league this wouldn't be the case. Even if it were then two of the above eL sides mentioned definitely wouldn't qualify for Europe.

**dcfcsteve** · 27/03/2007, 12:24 AM

Originally Posted by Poor Student

I think that's exactly the point being made. It's a qualitative as well as a quantitative issue, even more so. Linfield would find it more difficult to qualify for Europe (particularly the CL) when competing with Derry, Cork, Pat's, Bohs, Drogs etc. European qualification is practically sewn up for Linfield before the season begins. In an AIL league this wouldn't be the case. Even if it were then two of the above eL sides mentioned definitely wouldn't qualify for Europe.

So it's a lack of ambition / lack of confidence then that's at the heart of it all ? Would make sense to want to be by far the best team in that glorified pub league in that case I guess. Shameful lack of ambition or confidence in one's own abilities though. I still think Linfield would be regular Euro contenders in an AIL - and would have more money and more chance of actually doing something in Europe to-boot.

Still doesn't explain why they care so much about Europe in the media, and then play do pony when they get there...

**Poor Student** · 27/03/2007, 12:29 AM

I can't speak for Linfield but that's the general point posters are making. To compare the expansion of the IL's expansion to 16 teams which amounts to nothing more than extra cannon fodder for the top clubs to the other situation is ludicrous. Let's leave insulting terms like "pub league" to barstoolers and other forums please.

**David** · 27/03/2007, 6:12 AM

Originally Posted by Poor Student

I can't speak for Linfield but that's the general point posters are making. To compare the expansion of the IL's expansion to 16 teams which amounts to nothing more than extra cannon fodder for the top clubs to the other situation is ludicrous. Let's leave insulting terms like "pub league" to barstoolers and other forums please.

Thank you, well said.