Irelands oldest football club

**Mr_Parker** · 09/04/2007, 12:12 PM

Do not forget Cliftonville was also formed by members of an existing Cricket Club as was Distillery fc. They could inturn claim the year of formation of the cricket club whenever that was.

I have never seen a reference to Cliftonville FC being formed by members of the Cricket Club. The Cricket club was founded in 1870.

**Mr_Parker** · 09/04/2007, 12:19 PM

As for Limavady the Newtown Limavady (as town was then known) Cricket Club was founded in 1876. 1880 they form football club (as so many did to keep fit in winter) and took name Alexander FC ( after either a pub landlord or pub- think it is Main Street across road from Jane Ross House of "Danny Boy". Think it was landlord and pub named after him.), appear as records show in 2 early IFA Cup finals. Obviously due to popularity 2nd club is formed, but due to size of town they consolodate and unite to give LUFC as known today. I would put their football club formation as 1880.

Alexander was the name of the mill in the village and that is where the name comes from. There is also a major gap in 'their' history which seems to be unaccounted for.

**historynut** · 09/04/2007, 12:57 PM

Could well be wrong, but note the following- "The 3rd ground of the Cliftonville Cricket Club nr. Oldpark Ave, was used for the opening games of football, the first being against Quidnuncs(rugby players) 27/09/1879." Source M. Brodies History of the Irish Football League 1890-1990.
2 Early clubs often had their origins in existing sporting or social organisation eg Knock FC - Lacrosse. "Similarly the Cliftonville club was founded by 'several members of the C(LIFTONVILLE) C(ricket) C(lub)' who were 'ardent admirers of the association game'. source 'Association Football and society in pre-partition Ireland' by Neal Garnham(2004)
The story of the beginning of soccer in Ireland re the John Mc Mcalery honeymoon story, invite for exhibition game, request for those interested for formation of C. FC. is well recorded. But above also suggests a very close link to the earlier formed Cricket Club. Let me pose a question- why was the name Cliftonville chosen ? it hints of connection to Cricket Club- Any thoughts or comments Mr Parker ?

**historynut** · 09/04/2007, 1:21 PM

Mr Parker
There is a story re club being named after pub landlord of that name. Think Pub later named after him, there is a pub by that name in Main Street Limavady. There are loads of examples of clubs in Ireland whose history is intermittant, but dont forget the N.West FA is not the best documented FA, in respect of tournements under its juridiction eg NW League, NW Junior Cup. A Limavady team lost to Strabane in the 47/48 NW Junior final. Possibly a Limavady fan could add more. Am actually persuing info on NW FA, will notify re findings. I do not dispute CFC oldest club, but also wondered re Limavady stating 1876. Just posted my thoughts and observations. Strange that re your history no book published or am I wrong ?

**Mr_Parker** · 09/04/2007, 4:52 PM

Originally Posted by historynut

Could well be wrong, but note the following- "The 3rd ground of the Cliftonville Cricket Club nr. Oldpark Ave, was used for the opening games of football, the first being against Quidnuncs(rugby players) 27/09/1879." Source M. Brodies History of the Irish Football League 1890-1990.
2 Early clubs often had their origins in existing sporting or social organisation eg Knock FC - Lacrosse. "Similarly the Cliftonville club was founded by 'several members of the C(LIFTONVILLE) C(ricket) C(lub)' who were 'ardent admirers of the association game'. source 'Association Football and society in pre-partition Ireland' by Neal Garnham(2004)
The story of the beginning of soccer in Ireland re the John Mc Mcalery honeymoon story, invite for exhibition game, request for those interested for formation of C. FC. is well recorded. But above also suggests a very close link to the earlier formed Cricket Club. Let me pose a question- why was the name Cliftonville chosen ? it hints of connection to Cricket Club- Any thoughts or comments Mr Parker ?

It is always a dangerous thing to take Malcom Brodies books as correct.

Anyway I am not saying that there was no connection with members of the Cricket Club founding the Football Club, just that I had not seen anything to confirm it. As for close relations between the two, yes that was always the case, though since the Cricket Club merged with Greencastle in 1979 they have lessened.

**Mr_Parker** · 09/04/2007, 5:05 PM

Originally Posted by historynut

Mr Parker
There is a story re club being named after pub landlord of that name. Think Pub later named after him, there is a pub by that name in Main Street Limavady. There are loads of examples of clubs in Ireland whose history is intermittant, but dont forget the N.West FA is not the best documented FA, in respect of tournements under its juridiction eg NW League, NW Junior Cup. A Limavady team lost to Strabane in the 47/48 NW Junior final. Possibly a Limavady fan could add more. Am actually persuing info on NW FA, will notify re findings. I do not dispute CFC oldest club, but also wondered re Limavady stating 1876. Just posted my thoughts and observations. Strange that re your history no book published or am I wrong ?

There was a booklet published in 1979 of which I have a copy. The author was to publish a book but had his briefcase containing much of his research stolen just before publication was due.

Alexander C.C. were named after their benefactor but I had always associated him with the Alexander Mill in the village.

Not a great source but this wikipedia reference states that Limivady were formed in 1884 following a merger.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limavady_United_F.C.

The club hails from Limavady, County Londonderry and was formed in 1884 following the amalgamation of Limavady Alexander and Wanderers. The club currently play their home matches at The Showgrounds.

Though other refences I recall point to this being the formation of Limavady FC. Limavady "United" seem to have come about at a later date.

**historynut** · 09/04/2007, 6:11 PM

Mr Parker,
Take it booklet refers to CFC, are there copies still available (though I doubt it!) ? Shame about theft of briefcase sure would have been interesting read.
Have another quote re CC connection, but will only post if you request. Think we can agree that CC members were involved in CFC formation in 1879.
Re Limavady, pretty confident current club thread goes back to earliest club.It is an amalgamation of Alexander (older and senior) and Wanderers (newer club). Who knows whenever prefix United added. Loads of examples of clubs being amalgamations but keeping formation of earlier club. If you are suggesting that club has definatly been dormant do we only take their formation date as their reformation date.? Believe we are splitting hairs on that and the same could apply to N.Ireland clubs that closed down during WW2.
There is no doubt that the town has one of Irelands finest soccer heritage. Their club as a soccer club goes back to 1880, and are not the oldest club in Ireland as was the original question posted, but were original members on its formation of the IFA along with 7 others in 1880.

**Mr_Parker** · 10/04/2007, 9:28 AM

Originally Posted by historynut

Mr Parker,
Take it booklet refers to CFC, are there copies still available (though I doubt it!) ? Shame about theft of briefcase sure would have been interesting read.
Have another quote re CC connection, but will only post if you request. Think we can agree that CC members were involved in CFC formation in 1879.

No copies left but I have sent you a PM. As for the quote please post it. As I said I am happy if there is such a tie as it means I can use it to "beat up" a few Limavady supporters on ILF with it.

Originally Posted by historynut

Re Limavady, pretty confident current club thread goes back to earliest club.It is an amalgamation of Alexander (older and senior) and Wanderers (newer club). Who knows whenever prefix United added. Loads of examples of clubs being amalgamations but keeping formation of earlier club. If you are suggesting that club has definatly been dormant do we only take their formation date as their reformation date.? Believe we are splitting hairs on that and the same could apply to N.Ireland clubs that closed down during WW2.
There is no doubt that the town has one of Irelands finest soccer heritage. Their club as a soccer club goes back to 1880, and are not the oldest club in Ireland as was the original question posted, but were original members on its formation of the IFA along with 7 others in 1880.

I am happy to accept your take on that for now but I do recall reading somewhere that one of the merger to found Limavady United did not involve clubs who had emerged from direct links to Alexander. I can't recall where but if I ever find it I will come back to you.

**historynut** · 10/04/2007, 4:06 PM

Mr Parker,
Thanks for PM, please confirm you got my reply.
Interesting statement re current Lim Utd being an amalgamation of 2 clubs not connected to original Alexander/Limavady team. Could be a new ball game. Certainly would be intersting to read if you can refind that info.
1999 saw the reprint of a R.M.Peter's Irish Football Annual of 1880 with an introduction by the before mentioned Neal Garnham. The 1880 annual is more of a Rugby annual with a section on the newly introduced game of soccer.
The SFA IN 1876/77 had tried to set up exhibition games in Ireland, but had no joy with Rugby clubs for use of their grounds and matter dropped.In 1878 connection made with Ulster CC, and first exhibition game played at their grounds on 24/10/1878 by Scotish clubs Queens Park & Caledonian. In the spring of 1879 Lenzie FC came over and played a select XI, local rugby players interested in the new game. This leads to cfc formation.-will continue with new post

**historynut** · 10/04/2007, 4:27 PM

quote from book (though reduced).
Following that game, it was difficult to establish an Association club as all available grounds were occupied by rugby clubs; "but the CCC having leased a new ground adjoining the Antrim Rd, and prepared for the summer of 1879,an opportunity presented itselfwhich was not lost sight of, and several members of the CCC, being ardent admirers of the new game,,all obstacles were speedily overcome, and early in the autumn of 1879, the Cliftonville club was formed, being the first Association club in Ireland". Can forward details of book, if you want to pursue a copy. Assure you its a fascinating read.
When you confirm receipt of PM, let me know your e-mail, as I have some questions re the Olympic (dont fall off your chair- yes the Olmpic !) believe your reserves. which is'nt appropriate for this thread. Also give us details re ILF