Is Wednesday DDay for Shels

**pete** · 12/02/2007, 7:49 PM

Originally Posted by mypost

You can't draw up, or release a fixture list with conditions attached. Teams cannot be put in a situation where the week they are drawn to play Shels, they don't know if they will play them, or not. That's a farce, not a fixture list.

I never said they get released

1. You draw up the fixtures with the various scenarios. If shels in 1st division just swop in waterford & change 1st division fixtures etc...
2. Shels given final date for info submission. Decision made.
3. release fixtures the next day based on whatever scenario you left with.

I am just saying should be no delay in announcing fixtures once the decision made.

**mypost** · 12/02/2007, 8:09 PM

And what happens if Shels fold altogether after a provisional list has been drawn up? What happens to the 1st Division fixture list?

It sounds simple to draw up such a schedule in theory, but practically, it's considerably more difficult. It's not feasible to draw up a provisional fixture list. It must be set in stone when released.

**Dr.Nightdub** · 12/02/2007, 9:05 PM

Originally Posted by mypost

It's not feasible to draw up a provisional fixture list.

Course it's feasible to draw up a provisional fixture list. The hint is in the name - "provisional".

They've only three scenarios to plan for:
1. Shels in Premier, Waterford in First
2. Waterford in Premier, Shels in First
3. Waterford in Premier, Shels in neither

First one is easy, replace last years fixtures with Rovers and Galway where they had Waterford and CHF, then reverse the running order. It happens every year, no reason for them to go against the grain and get all novel and innovative about it. Second one is easy too, just swap "v Waterford" for where it says "v Shels" in the Premier fixture list and vice-versa for the First fixture list. Third one is just as easy, just swap "weekend off" for where it says "v Shels".

Then figure out whether or where they're gonna let Shels compete, then release the appropriate fixture list.

Honest, it's not hard to run a League.

**mypost** · 12/02/2007, 9:16 PM

If Shels fold before the league starts, then they need another club to fill the gap, which leads to another fixture-list hold-up.

The fixtures are not reversed every year. In the 20 years since the 3-round system began, there have been years, where fixtures have been reversed from the year before. Only once have fixtures been reversed twice.

The fixtures were reversed last year, so now a brand new list must be drawn up. It may be reversed again next year. In any case, you cannot release a conditional fixture list. If you could, they'd be out by now.

**Student Mullet** · 12/02/2007, 9:26 PM

Originally Posted by Dr.Nightdub

First one is easy, replace last years fixtures with Rovers and Galway where they had Waterford and CHF, then reverse the running order. It happens every year, no reason for them to go against the grain and get all novel and innovative about it.

You can't do that, it would blow the 'whole new league' theory out of the water.

**Dr.Nightdub** · 12/02/2007, 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by Student Mullet

You can't do that, it would blow the 'whole new league' theory out of the water.

Oh all right then, new League, same fixture computer. Good enough for you?

Now, this may just be coincidence but...

2002, 12-team League, Pats' last game: Longford away
2003, 10-team League, doesn't count
2004, 10-team League, doesn't count
2005, 12-team League, Pats' last game: Longford at home
2006, 12-team League, Pats' last game: Longford away
2007, 12-team League, you wanna give me odds on Pats' last opponents?

**blackholesun** · 12/02/2007, 10:09 PM

FFS, any first year comp sci student could write a program to "randonly" a set of fixtures given some simple constraints like Shels and Rovers sharing Tolka.

Ive noticed some years that lazy thick generating the list uses a staggered list whereby for example UCD every week play the team Shels played the week before ... If Shels are winning most of their games it means UCD are not facing a team on a winning streak most weeks ... this kinda factors are probably a + bias for teams over the season.

Note to UCD geeks, I only used UCD as an example ...

bhs

**Dodge** · 12/02/2007, 10:32 PM

Usually the case. Almost exact oppposit. You play onme team twice at home, the following year you play them twice away. Promoted teams take the place of relegated team. We started the season against Cork 6 years out 8 a while ago. All teams are played in the same order in each of 3 series (now that they got rid of the back to back fixtures)

Its one of the many problems I had with those running the league. Basic lack of imagination (or computer game to rip off)

**CharlesThompson** · 12/02/2007, 10:53 PM

Does anyone else think that the FAI have in fact forgotten that they have to put together a fixture list?

**Mr A** · 13/02/2007, 2:45 AM

In the Irish League they have a great tradition of arranging Derby games for Boxing Day. I think we should take a leaf out of their book by putting derby matches on Good Friday- which has in my experience at least usually seen good numbers attending matches. I think the extra hype of these games plus the lack of other attractions could make this worth a try at least.

**mypost** · 13/02/2007, 5:54 AM

Originally Posted by Dr.Nightdub

Now, this may just be coincidence but...

2002, 12-team League, Pats' last game: Longford away
2003, 10-team League, doesn't count
2004, 10-team League, doesn't count
2005, 12-team League, Pats' last game: Longford at home
2006, 12-team League, Pats' last game: Longford away
2007, 12-team League, you wanna give me odds on Pats' last opponents?

Our last match in 12-team league:

2000: Shels (h)
2001: Derry (h)
2002: Galway (h)
2005: UCD (a)

**BohsPartisan** · 13/02/2007, 7:55 AM

Seems the fixtures are only reversed for the big clubs.

(Its been Shels for us for the last few years.)

**oriel** · 13/02/2007, 8:01 AM

Although I do think Shels will end up relegated, I think a lot of us are under estimating the whole situation, its Feb 13th, they have still no manager, hardly any senior players, as yet no sign of a rescue plan, millions in debt, they could well cease trading.

They would want to have a pretty quick plan to sign up players and fast, but how can they possibly get any premier standard players now ? I`d say the Premier Div option is a def non runner.

They spent one season before in the First Div, 1985/86 I think, but this time their stay will be a bit longer I think.

Footnote, paddy power has still priced them at 20/1 to win the premier lge !!!!

**Magicme** · 13/02/2007, 8:08 AM

Originally Posted by CharlesThompson

Does anyone else think that the FAI have in fact forgotten that they have to put together a fixture list?

Certainly not...was at an FAI seminar last Friday and one of the first things they told us was that the fixtures would be out by the end of this week. They just had to wait til the other issues were ironed out I suppose.

We had Galway at home for first game of the season for 2 years in a row so I hope we get Waterford/Wexford at home instead!

**neutrino** · 13/02/2007, 8:09 AM

Originally Posted by blackholesun

FFS, any first year comp sci student could write a program to "randonly" a set of fixtures given some simple constraints like Shels and Rovers sharing Tolka.

Ive noticed some years that lazy thick generating the list uses a staggered list whereby for example UCD every week play the team Shels played the week before ... If Shels are winning most of their games it means UCD are not facing a team on a winning streak most weeks ... this kinda factors are probably a + bias for teams over the season.

Note to UCD geeks, I only used UCD as an example ...

bhs

technology ?? FAI ??? no no no. they're still using the quill and ink method.

**monutdfc** · 13/02/2007, 8:27 AM

Originally Posted by Magicme

We had Galway at home for first game of the season for 2 years in a row so I hope we get Waterford/Wexford at home instead!

We were meant to be away to Galway last season but the fixtures were reversed because there was a schools international in Terryland that night.

**Terry** · 13/02/2007, 8:27 AM

have heard that they are writting up a new fixture list compared to just reversing the lists like before. They want to start the league of with as many derbies as possible.

**Magicme** · 13/02/2007, 8:30 AM

I heard that there is a possiblity that all suspensions held over from last season may also be struck off as this is a new league and not a continuation. Not sure if that is gonna happen or not, as I say its just a rumour I heard.

**Tis-smeee** · 13/02/2007, 8:51 AM

Micheal Hayes is the man that arranges them the past number of years cant remember a year when he didnt balls up the fixtures , I wonder if we will be taking a mid-season break this year like the past two for the olympics and world cup