Croke park funding

[osarusan]

The question about what you're doing here is apt when you're on a pro GAA crusade on football forum. If you feel this strongly you should be on a GAA site with other such "enlightened" people, if not I can only assume you're posting this stuff as a wind up, in which case the mods should be looking at your access.

This is ridiculous.

If he is on a "pro GAA crusade", doesnt it make more sense to do it where people disagree with him than where they agree with him.

Or he is a WUM, and shouldnt be here, the mods should take care if it.

Nonsense.

[Macy]

And have won and unclaimed....thats quite a substantial sum

What has who played the lotto have to do with who distributes the money? It is distributed on behalf of the electorate by the Government, all of whom are taxpayers either directly or indirectly.

[paul_oshea]

National Lottery funding is not public money, if it were the case sure we could use some of it to buy out the M50 toll and all the other tolls around the country. Maybe it can even help out our health system.
National Lottery funding is to promote and help, charitys, sporting organisations and voluntary organisations. It has nothing to do with the government and the government coffers. You apply to the national lottery on the basis of your plans, future plans and the amount of funding you have already secured from other sources.

You are moving the goalposts Macy with your last post. I shall leave it with the above.

[Dodge]

You're either naive or stupid Paul, if you don't believe the government decides where lottery money goes.

http://www.arts-sport-tourism.gov.ie...se.asp?ID=1834

Sports Capital Programme

Minister O'Donoghue said: "The foundation for the much-improved sporting infrastructure of the country under this Government has been the National Lottery-funded Sports Capital Programme. The Programme has helped provide hundreds of new pitches, changing rooms, sports halls and much needed equipment to sports clubs throughout Ireland. Nowhere has Government impacted more on the lives of people in every corner of Ireland than through funding to sports clubs and groups under the Sports Capital Programme.

"I am delighted that the National Development Plan will ensure the continuation of the Programme and the provision of sport and recreational facilities on a nationwide basis. Almost €420m will be allocated over the period of the Plan once again highlighting this Government's commitment to ensuring that people the length and breadth of the country will have access to top-of-the-range sporting facilities.

[pete]

Maybe it can even help out our health system.
National Lottery funding is to promote and help, charitys, sporting organisations and voluntary organisations....

The lottery does fund the health system!!!
Lottery funds are allocated by the government so it all goes into the same pool.

GAA website

Sensationally, it was announced at this year's annual congress on Friday April 6th that the GAA would receive £60,000,000 from the Government towards the redevelopment over the next three years.

Department of Sport

John O'Donoghue TD, Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism, today (Thursday 30th September, 2004) announced that the Government has agreed to provide a further and final grant of €40 million to the GAA over the next two years towards the cost of the redevelopment of Croke Park. €20 million will be paid this year with a further €20 million being paid in 2005. This additional grant will bring the level of Exchequer contribution to €110 million towards the €265 million cost of the whole project.

This does not include the 3-3.5m funding for the recent floodlights.

At the beginning of this year, the Government agreed to support the redevelopment of Lansdowne Stadium, a project which is being undertaken as a joint venture by the IRFU and FAI. Funding of €191 million will be provided by the Exchequer towards this €292 million project and the new Stadium will meet the national and international requirements of rugby and soccer.

The government has also said they will not pay for cost over runs. 191m = 95.5m for each sports body. I believe the government will retain a stake in the stadium too.

Moderator Warning:
- Keep this on topic, no discussion on "the ban" or other issues
- If you quote figures back them up with links otherwise they will be removed.

[Macy]

You are moving the goalposts Macy with your last post. I shall leave it with the above.

How was I moving the goal posts? By saying that the Government distributes lottery funds or by saying that the Government represents the electorate?

[paul_oshea]

pete what website is?

http://gaa website that can hardly be used as a quote

[Dodge]

Does it matter paul, you've been proved wrong elsewhere in the post, and in macy's, and in mine...

But anyway, google gave me this http://www.hoganstand.com/general/gr...les/032803.htm

[pete]

pete what website is?

http://gaa website that can hardly be used as a quote

edited now.

[paul_oshea]

Dodge, i wasnt proved wrong its completely different. it was not 110 mil tax payers money as had been bandied about here before. it was 3.5% tax payers money as i proved. then macy moved what a "tax payer" was, then to "electorate"....IT IS NOT MONEY GENERATED FROM INCOME TAX or the TAX PAYER, it is not confined to either. any person anywhere can play the lotto, they do not have to be a resident of this country, they do not have to pay any income tax in this country. End of.

[Dodge]

National Lottery funding is to promote and help, charitys, sporting organisations and voluntary organisations. It has nothing to do with the government and the government coffers. ove.

Proved wrong. Loads of times. Give it up, will you. Unless you're moving these mythical goalposts again

[paul_oshea]

denial is a horrible thing dodge

They harnessed whatever grants were available to them ( and any other organisation with any bit of a plan in place )and in a nutshell showed initiative.


The FAI should be lucky they got any of the funding they did receive regardless of how meagre anyone thinks it is. In most walks in life you generally get what you deserve and what separate entity would honestly throw money at such a shambolic organisation compared to the smooth running and ambitious model of the GAA over the last 15 years, they went it alone, they put together an ambitious plan but backed it up with a strategy to execute the plan and to ensure financial stability.


Grants yes, tax payers money no.

[elroy]

Paul I think you are being a little technical in fairness.

I dont any right minded person denies the achievement the GAA made in building croker and in particular keeping it open while doing so. Its a fantastic stadium (althou not complete in my opinion). The GAA deserves all the praise it gets in relation to this. There are a number of points I would like to make:

1 Unquestionably the ban on foreign sports hampered the growth of both soccer and rugby and therefore their organisations in this country. I am in my 20s however at underage level playing gaa I was ridiculed for playing soccer as well as gaa by my gaa coaches. This sort of attitude sickens me and I have heard some terrible examples from the past of this.

2 Whatever way you look at it, the gaa received substantial outside funding for croker. However, they were entitled to this as much as any other organisation. The fact that they will repay the government €XXX in VAT etc is irrelevant.

3 The FAI did attempt to draw up plans in the mid 90s to build a stadium and actively pursued this. Financially viable? Probably not. But if it had got governmental support then maybe. The association did not have the backing of a government which the gaa had and secondly it did not have the standing as the gaa had mainly because of my reasons outlined in 1.

4 The attitudes within certain sections of the gaa towards other sports is despicable. The mere fact they are referred to "foreign sports" is disgusting. (American football was played in croke park a few years back, yet this was judged to be a "foreign game" and there was no problem with this game taking place in croker.)
No other country does suggest hatred exist. Yes rivalry, but hatred - no. This sort of attitude is something that escapes me. I can wholeheartedly say if the roles were reversed the question of whether gaa teams should be allowed play games in a soccer stadium instead of going abroad would never have arisen, they would be accomodated without the level of euphoria and debate that we have seen from the gaa.

The fact that certain people have mentioned why is paul on this site if he is a gaa supporter is the exact kind of attitudes we want to get rid of. What is wrong with someone playing, supporting 3/4/5 different codes - nothing and it should be encouraged.

5 The sooner the first few games are played in croke park the better, then i hope this unnecessary hype and debate will subside.

[G-Man]

Just a respnse from me on some of the issues you raise;

Paul I think you are being a little technical in fairness.

I dont any right minded person denies the achievement the GAA made in building croker and in particular keeping it open while doing so. Its a fantastic stadium (althou not complete in my opinion). The GAA deserves all the praise it gets in relation to this. There are a number of points I would like to make:

1 Unquestionably the ban on foreign sports hampered the growth of both soccer and rugby and therefore their organisations in this country. I am in my 20s however at underage level playing gaa I was ridiculed for playing soccer as well as gaa by my gaa coaches. This sort of attitude sickens me and I have heard some terrible examples from the past of this.

Remember what ban was in place first. There was an outright ban on playing of gaelic games in the latter stages of the 19th century and up to our separation from Britain. Then the GAA put a ban on its members form playing other sports, not an outright ban. If people didnt want to play GAA they could paly other games. I acknowledge your reasoning, but the ban stems from something long before our time, and took 50 years to be rid of.

2 Whatever way you look at it, the gaa received substantial outside funding for croker. However, they were entitled to this as much as any other organisation. The fact that they will repay the government €XXX in VAT etc is irrelevant.

Agree entirely.

3 The FAI did attempt to draw up plans in the mid 90s to build a stadium and actively pursued this. Financially viable? Probably not. But if it had got governmental support then maybe. The association did not have the backing of a government which the gaa had and secondly it did not have the standing as the gaa had mainly because of my reasons outlined in 1.

I would argue that point. The FAI didnt have as viable development as it should have been, and soccer in this country was at an all time high after Euro 88 and subsequent world cups. A ban on GAA members playing soccer lifted in the 70's had no relevance to a stadium that should have been built n the 90's.

4 The attitudes within certain sections of the gaa towards other sports is despicable. The mere fact they are referred to "foreign sports" is disgusting. (American football was played in croke park a few years back, yet this was judged to be a "foreign game" and there was no problem with this game taking place in croker.)
No other country does suggest hatred exist. Yes rivalry, but hatred - no. This sort of attitude is something that escapes me. I can wholeheartedly say if the roles were reversed the question of whether gaa teams should be allowed play games in a soccer stadium instead of going abroad would never have arisen, they would be accomodated without the level of euphoria and debate that we have seen from the gaa.

speculation. but was there an outcry from anyone when Croke Park was being developmed that they should seek to use Lansdowne? There is hatred still, no doubts about that, but as seen on this board many soccer only fans have hatred right back at the GAA. I seem to be stuck in a middle ground and like all!

The fact that certain people have mentioned why is paul on this site if he is a gaa supporter is the exact kind of attitudes we want to get rid of. What is wrong with someone playing, supporting 3/4/5 different codes - nothing and it should be encouraged.

Too right. Cant see why we cant move forward if the GAA have got rid of their archaeic rules then why cant we move forward and support sport in this country.

5 The sooner the first few games are played in croke park the better, then i hope this unnecessary hype and debate will subside.

Amen to that!!!

[paul_oshea]

elroy i agree with all points and the first line of 4, but not the rest. just to add to g-man:
What about the first bloodly Sunday and the years it was illegal for the organisation to even exist? How much of an "advantage " did they have then compared to soccer? Yet they then prevailed and grew. Look at the northern dominance over the last few years. The people that coached those same players when they were kids would have been under constant harassment from british army and often under threat of life from paramilitaries. Yet they still produced teams who have now won several all irelands in the last 5 years. So its not completely fair to say 1 should prevail even if a majority dont agree...I know southern finances etc but just a small point to note.

I recall someone saying to me in the years after how their (soccer-only ) friends from euro 88 onwards by soccer fans that the "Gah" would soon be dead and buried. So what's happened since? Nothing except bungling from the FAI despite having the PR benefit of two world cups whilst the GAA has pushed forward and made gains despite ( some ) biased negative media spin for decades. Why have'nt the FAI got their act together re the domestic game ?

Anyhow that last question is for another day, another debate, another forum perhaps. the combination of yer two posts were one of the better i have read on foot.ie in a while.

[elroy]

Fair enough on your replies Paul/Gman but just one thing I dont like and I may sound a little hypocritical here as i referred to the past initially with the ban. But i dont like the likes of bloody sunday and references to british rule etc - we are talking about sport after all.

I dont think any right minded individuals (from any code) would advocate such bans as existed in the past. I for one think the ban did stunt the growth of soccer in this country, however I do agree with Paul entirely that the FAI for the most part failed to capitalise on the success of 88 - 94. IMO the biggest reason why soccer is so big in this country has nothing to do with Ireland - the premiership!

Finally most of what i have referred to earlier - ie attitudes, bans etc are slowly but surely becoming a thing of the past - as gman said these existed long before our time and in a different Ireland. I genuinely do hope that in a few months the vast majority of Irish people will agree that the opening of croker is good for sport in general in Ireland.

[G-Man]

Fair enough on your replies Paul/Gman but just one thing I dont like and I may sound a little hypocritical here as i referred to the past initially with the ban. But i dont like the likes of bloody sunday and references to british rule etc - we are talking about sport after all.

I dont think any right minded individuals (from any code) would advocate such bans as existed in the past. I for one think the ban did stunt the growth of soccer in this country, however I do agree with Paul entirely that the FAI for the most part failed to capitalise on the success of 88 - 94. IMO the biggest reason why soccer is so big in this country has nothing to do with Ireland - the premiership!

Finally most of what i have referred to earlier - ie attitudes, bans etc are slowly but surely becoming a thing of the past - as gman said these existed long before our time and in a different Ireland. I genuinely do hope that in a few months the vast majority of Irish people will agree that the opening of croker is good for sport in general in Ireland.

With regard to the history aspect, there is a very good article in the Telegraph today giving the english readers a sense of the history of croke park and Bloody sunday. Its not for here to post, but can be found online. Can pm either if you want a read, but its a very well written piece with no bias.

[kingdom hoop]

Fair enough on your replies Paul/Gman but just one thing I dont like and I may sound a little hypocritical here as i referred to the past initially with the ban. But i dont like the likes of bloody sunday and references to british rule etc - we are talking about sport after all.

while yes we are talking about sport the context we are bound by has to be appreciated. take this analogy; your friend had been going out with a girl he didnt really like for a few years, for one reason or another she exerted undue control over him, he got sick of it so he broke it off. you watched him recoil from the break-up, trying to find himrself again. there were good times, there were bad but he just wanted to forget the whole episode, through out all her underwear and recall what it was like to be him, back in your glory days, free from her tyranny

my point would be that its not surprising there was a manifestation of the resentment of british rule and it just so happened that the popular sport of football lost out. of course people still loved and played the game but the shift was towards reviving ireland as a nation. like your friend who after the break up went on a blonde buzz having always hated them, there was a shift in culture/choices/opinion.

that would be my view before we forget the past or deem it irrelevant.

If there was a level playing field from the start then no soccer supporter in the country could have any reason to be bitter towards the GAA, but it wasn't and they should be.

by the way, i dont feel misty eyed but the ruction to the playing field was as much political as anything, a movement that allows me to be a proud irishman today.

(hmmm, didnt see that coming sorry)