Shelbourne FC Demoted to First Division - All Purpose Thread

**Schumi** · 01/02/2007, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

If you were to ask the average soccer supporterer in ireland ( that doesnt attend EL matches ) that would be what they would say about the EL.

So what? They don't go to games and are completely ignorant about the standard of football, who cares what they think? If that's their attitude they won't go to games anyway so **** them. There are more important issues in this than what TV viewers think.

**dcfcsteve** · 01/02/2007, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by Burnsie

for all its faults, and no doubt i'm ill-informed about many of them, i don't think a rational argument can be made that the disappearance of shelbourne would be good for football in ireland.

Who's talking about Shels's disappearance except you ?

This thread is about explaining the lack of goodwill towards Shels....

Many, if not most, posters here clearly don't want Shels to disappear completely for all time. Only the very odd narrow-minded person wants another Drumcondra in Irish football. A number (myself included) have also clarified that their problem is with Ollie Byrne, and not with the club. So this is hardly the farewell party you seem to think it is....

**dcfcsteve** · 01/02/2007, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by Magicme

Didnt stop u wanting to see a pic of me in the jersey tho did it!!!

Freak!

Some wimmin look better with their clothes on than off......

P.S. What were you doing in a jersey anyway ?

Were you using that under-harness and strap-on yolk that your cousin got you for Christmas.....?

**Magicme** · 01/02/2007, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

if a =b and a= c then b=c

their women are cows!!!! 8:

git

**paul_oshea** · 01/02/2007, 12:47 PM

Schumi, absoloutely, but dont you think you should be trying to conver these people, rather than having a fcuk them attitude? Even moreso, lets take it like you feel sorry for them because they dont feel an association to any club as local as the EL, don't you think it would be good for them to have that association? By having the attitude fcuk them, lets not worry about them, that isn't going to change and advance the league. These people are hte most realistic chance you have of increasing support and fan bases of the league, ruggers/gaelic heads that have no interest in soccer are going to be even more difficult to attract if even possible.

**jebus** · 01/02/2007, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by GuisaSaigon

YAWN, it's gettin old. you're like a broken record. Why are you still here? this is an Eircom league forum.

Sure where else would I find a higher level of wit than that of the average Galway supporter, I don't know what would have become of me in life without you guys putting me in my place

**paul_oshea** · 01/02/2007, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by Magicme

git

ah im only buzzin off ye magicme, I'm sure your cows look lovely in monaghan jerseys!!

**Magicme** · 01/02/2007, 12:55 PM

They will look even nicer in the new ones!!!

**jebus** · 01/02/2007, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

Thats a simply shocking arguement. Shels have only been there through underhand tactics. If it wasn't for that it could have been Cork or Derry in that position.

Hardly, Shelbourne have been the headline club for the past decade in the eyes of the general football fan that we are trying to entice into this league. They are considered so because of their on the field achievements, and because of players such as Stephen Geoghan. I remember when I wasn't an Eircom League fan and Shels were the only team I ever heard about as being of anywhere near an acceptable standard club on the pitch, and I'm sure if you asked English supporting Irish football fans today they would say the same thing.

**CharlesThompson** · 01/02/2007, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

very good post steve alright, do you think though it was somewhat a cache 22, maybe naively somewhat, or backburner stuff, but these fans thought that by ensuring they were helping the club to pay for these players that were bringing them glory, which is what all supporters of a club aspire and hope for, they kept up doing all this work, not necessarily because they liked ollie, but they thought they were helping the club to stay at the top and pay for being at the top?
Just one other small point, if the supporters raised 10k and tried to buy ollie out, they would still be taking on 10mil euro debts, which they would have to prove they could pay for, along with the differnce the sale of the grounds.

Paul, they were told at the time by anybody else with half a brain that they were wasting their time with this kind of "help". They ignored all and sundry who offered well informed advice as to how they could and should help their club. Out of some sense of perverse defensiveness having been told they were travelling along the wrong road, they stuck their fingers in their ears and sang 'la la la...'

**dcfcsteve** · 01/02/2007, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I'm sure your cows look lovely in monaghan jerseys!!

Is that a local pedigree breed or something.....? A bit like Irish Parma ham....

**dcfcsteve** · 01/02/2007, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by CharlesThompson

....they stuck their fingers in their ears and sang 'la la la...'

"Sing when you're solvent ! You only sing when you're solvent...!"

**Schumi** · 01/02/2007, 1:01 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Schumi, absoloutely, but dont you think you should be trying to conver these people, rather than having a fcuk them attitude? Even moreso, lets take it like you feel sorry for them because they dont feel an association to any club as local as the EL, don't you think it would be good for them to have that association? By having the attitude fcuk them, lets not worry about them, that isn't going to change and advance the league. These people are hte most realistic chance you have of increasing support and fan bases of the league, ruggers/gaelic heads that have no interest in soccer are going to be even more difficult to attract if even possible.

I'd prefer if they supported a team and went to games but the idea that Shels' problems are a deciding factor in people's attitudes is rubbish. If people weren't interested in the league for the past 2-3 years, Shels' demise isn't going to worsen the situation.

The first step to a succesful league is for the clubs to be properly and sensibly run rather than in a repeated boom and bust cycle. Long-term, a league where Shels have gone through this and are run in a sustainable manner is more likely to attract new fans than one where clubs are one step away for disaster as has been the case. I don't want to see Shels die but I'd rather that than having them continue to operate as they have over the past 5 years.

**paul_oshea** · 01/02/2007, 1:03 PM

good one steve!

ya I am beginging to see that, but those on forums are only a small amount, I mean you only have to look at when we try to organise stuff off foot.ie, it never bloody works cos we are only a small group!!! Not saying this is definately the case here. But if this was held by the majority of supporters I can see why some people have the attitude they have. But is it only their supporters that would/have acted like this?

**BohsPartisan** · 01/02/2007, 1:07 PM

Originally Posted by jebus

Hardly, Shelbourne have been the headline club for the past decade in the eys ofthe general football fan that we are trying to entice into this league.

As Schumi said on the other thread, it still didn't entice them to come so who cares what they think?
As for them getting publicity for their on the field activities, I think you missed my point. It was because of their underhand off the field activities that they were able to field teams to grab the headlines. If it wasn't for them signing up to contracts they couldn't afford to pay, those players would have been plying their trade with other clubs and helping them to deserved success.

**Dr.Nightdub** · 01/02/2007, 1:07 PM

Last time, it was a more crowded market - three potential landloard (us, Bohs, Shels) and two prospective tenants (Rovers and CHF). Now it's a buyer's market - two potential landlords (us and Bohs) but only one prospective tenant (Rovers). Seems to me that leaves the tenant with more bargaining power.

Also, your previous tenancy arrangements were set up by your old regime. From what I can make out, Rovers' current board has a bit more financial savvy - you don't turn a �2.5million loss into a �40k profit (figures supplied by a hoop I work with) by paying �2k a game for the use of a pitch.

**paul_oshea** · 01/02/2007, 1:10 PM

I'd prefer if they supported a team and went to games but the idea that Shels' problems are a deciding factor in people's attitudes is rubbish. If people weren't interested in the league for the past 2-3 years, Shels' demise isn't going to worsen the situation.

I agree completely with what you are saying schumi, but I am seeing it from a different angle I think, People in ireland, the same people that went to see shels against deportivo in landsdowne, watched them against Lille on the tele ( actually I cant remember 100% for sure was that home game shown? ), have associated shels as being a club moving forward, doing things and going places, they haven't read or heard much about ollie byrne, they probably don't even know who he is ( most of them anyhow ) nor do they know about the background finances, but they do know shelbourne and if they see, in their eyes a club like shels folding that to them will only strengthen what they think of the league and therefore the leagues players and the standard, its giant leap back. In the next 3 - 4 years derry might take their place and it could all be forgotten, but in the short term I dont think its good for you as EL fans for shels to become extinct.

**jebus** · 01/02/2007, 1:14 PM

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

As Schumi said on the other thread, it still didn't entice them to come so who cares what they think?

But if thats the case than we may as well jack in the LoI altogether. By that token we will never get the kind of fans we need to support a full time Irish football league that can push on in Europe. All we will get is more Shelbourne style disasters at other clubs who chase glory

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

As for them getting publicity for their on the field activities, I think you missed my point. It was because of their underhand off the field activities that they were able to field teams to grab the headlines. If it wasn't for them signing up to contracts they couldn't afford to pay, those players would have been plying their trade with other clubs and helping them to deserved success.

Still though, many clubs across Europe overspend, some have suffered the consequences, some haven't, we still shouldn't be dancing on the grave of a team that would help out the EL cause of converting Man Utd/Liverpool/Celtic/etc. fans to the EL because of this, which is what most of us have been doing on this forum

**mandrake** · 01/02/2007, 1:19 PM

Originally Posted by mcgonigle

Good one

Would rather win the first division and take the �50k from the F.A.I and laugh at them. Well I'm from Dublin which shouldnt matter in this case, but I wouldnt want to see any club go bust, as mentioned before there is no way Shels can play in the CL and should not be in the premier, their are three or four teams in the first division that one of them should be there instead.

Any team going bust is not good for the LOI, I wouldnt wish it on any club not even rovers or the drogs (who will prob go the same way as shels with there spending)

i'd love to see dundalk to belly up....its great laughing at ehm at the moment....and the maxi twist is the icing on the cake...

**BohsPartisan** · 01/02/2007, 1:30 PM

Originally Posted by jebus

But if thats the case than we may as well jack in the LoI altogether. By that token we will never get the kind of fans we need to support a full time Irish football league that can push on in Europe.

It will take a lot more than a few decent results in Europe to get new supporters into the EL in their droves. Better facilities, better youth set ups leading to a better quality of product in the long run, better PR from the FAI, increasing fees paid from English clubs for EL players are a move in the right direction.
Putting all your chips on red is not.

Still though, many clubs across Europe overspend, some have suffered the consequences, some haven't, we still shouldn't be dancing on the grave of a team that would help out the EL cause of converting Man Utd/Liverpool/Celtic/etc. fans to the EL because of this, which is what most of us have been doing on this forum

There is overspending and then there is recklessness of Titanic proportions. You still miss my point. If Shels were not cheating their way into the limelight it could have been Cork or Derry doing it legitimately.