John O'Shea

**S�C** · 25/01/2006, 12:54 PM

Time to call up Danny Murphy

**eirebhoy** · 25/01/2006, 1:26 PM

Originally Posted by geysir

I don't think we have so many options at RB available to us for this game.
In Stan's first game I wonder if he would start it with S.Kelly at RB.Would you not think he needs more first team starts with Spurs in the meantime.

O'Shea and Kilbane may be getting match time but not at left back. The only use that is to us (if we're to play them at left back) is match fitness. Finnan and Kelly are playing full back week in week out at whatever level. Kelly isn't stupid, he knows he's at the age where he has to be playing and I'm sure he'll be a regular with a club by the time the qualifiers come around. Therefore I'd have him start his first game for Ireland asap as in the long term Finnan-Kelly will be our best option imo. The only player we have playing regularly at left back is Ian Harte and Marcos Painter is probably coming up against better right wingers than him at premiership reserve level.

This is a friendly purely for experimenting and playing Harte-Finnan is not experimenting. We can play Harte in the first qualifier if we don't find anyone else for left back by then. For me its either Finnan-Kelly or Murphy-Finnan. Even Finnan-Heary. O'Shea is not an option unless he starts playing at left back for his club again. Left back at Man Utd was the stop gap position for the utility player and now O'Shea seems to be moving past the utility stage.

**Dotsy** · 25/01/2006, 3:55 PM

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

O'Shea and Kilbane may be getting match time but not at left back. The only use that is to us (if we're to play them at left back) is match fitness. Finnan and Kelly are playing full back week in week out at whatever level. Kelly isn't stupid, he knows he's at the age where he has to be playing and I'm sure he'll be a regular with a club by the time the qualifiers come around. Therefore I'd have him start his first game for Ireland asap as in the long term Finnan-Kelly will be our best option imo. The only player we have playing regularly at left back is Ian Harte and Marcos Painter is probably coming up against better right wingers than him at premiership reserve level.

This is a friendly purely for experimenting and playing Harte-Finnan is not experimenting. We can play Harte in the first qualifier if we don't find anyone else for left back by then. For me its either Finnan-Kelly or Murphy-Finnan. Even Finnan-Heary. O'Shea is not an option unless he starts playing at left back for his club again. Left back at Man Utd was the stop gap position for the utility player and now O'Shea seems to be moving past the utility stage.

I agree that we should be giving experience at full back in the friendlies to players other than Finnan or Harte. Staunton is going to learn anything about those two that he doesn't already know.

**as_i_say** · 26/01/2006, 8:09 AM

that foley lad is a right back though isnt he?

ian harte for president.

**Fergie's Son** · 09/04/2006, 7:25 PM

O'Shea had another good game today against Arsenal. It certainly helped that Giggs had an amazing game but O'Shea played well.

David Pleat (who loves all things Irish) was ebulient is his praise for O'Shea.

Does O'Shea have a future as our central midfielder for the European Qualifiers?

**Superhoops** · 09/04/2006, 8:03 PM

Originally Posted by Fergie's Son

...Does O'Shea have a future as our central midfielder for the European Qualifiers?

Only if he plays well in both the Chile and Holland games in that position.

**Adrianovic** · 09/04/2006, 8:08 PM

We should definitely play him there in both games, probably alongside Steven Reid.

What's the chances of him keeping his place there in the Man U team next season? I presume Fergie will invest?

Ade

**CraftyToePoke** · 09/04/2006, 8:17 PM

Originally Posted by Adrianovic

We should definitely play him there in both games, probably alongside Steven Reid.

What's the chances of him keeping his place there in the Man U team next season? I presume Fergie will invest?

Ade

thats it exactly, he is doing very well and making a few people eat their words but will he still be in the united midfield this time next year after a multi-million midfield signing or two? i hope so but i doubt it.

and if he goes back to being a utility player at man u, would Staunton persist with him in the middle on the strength of what he has shown recently for his club.

**livehead1** · 09/04/2006, 8:28 PM

i think your looking at it from the wrong perspective. What is happening with O'Shea at the moment is nothing short of sensational. He has gone from being a player lambasted by many on this board to one who has just kept one of the on form midfielders in Europe (Fabregas), quiet. Roy Keane made some good comments a couple of weeks ago where he mentioned that he feels jos can become a top central midfielder but needs to find that extra bite, that extra bit to make him feared in the upper echelons of football. Today he was quick into the tackle, very composed on the ball, always looking for it, and his passing was superb.

Now to my main point. With regards to the apparent investment that united intend to inject into a transfer budge in the summer. Alex Ferguson is a great manager, thats well reknowned. Having O'Shea develop into a top midfielder, which is something that im sure we would all agree, seems to be happening, would be like having a new player for him. Therefore, if his current form continues, the likelihood of him replacing jos in the middle is unlikely. what is more likely is that another player is brought in to play alongside him. This would allow giggs to be rested more often and to play on the left wing, where united are still short. It would be stupid of ferguson, who must see the progress o'shea is making, to replace him with a player and attempt to integrate that player into the united system and team, a system and team that has saw them create a record for the last 5years of consecutive wins.

**TheJamaicanP.M.** · 09/04/2006, 8:52 PM

Good thread. I think it is time to reassess John O'Shea. He has had a good run of games in the one position, a position that he actually seems suited to. Prior to the friendly against Sweden, Graham Kavanagh would have been my first choice midfielder. However, now he is behind Reid and O'Shea in the pecking order. I was very impressed by the partnership of Reid and O'Shea that night. When one player went forward, the other was quick to cover. They complimented each other very well. Ireland completely bossed the midfield against Sweden that night, something I haven't seen them do in a while. Reid and O'Shea give us a physical presence we haven't had in a long time. I often felt during the Kinsella/Holland years that our midfield was slow in supporting the front pair. However, against Sweden, the midfield was very quick in pressing the opposition and getting forward when a long ball was played. When Kavanagh came on for the second half, it was actually noticeable how the tempo of our game dropped, although this may have been a result of the various changes made.

I know we shouldn't judge the O'Shea- Reid partnership on one game, but I think it offers great potential. They provide us with a great physical presence and athleticism in midfield, as well as being quite young. I think this is Staunton's first choice pairing and I expect him to persist with them.

O'Shea has put in some good performances for United recently. I still expect Ferguson to buy a big-name midfielder this season, but at least he now knows what O'Shea is capable of playing in the midfield. For that reason, he may now consider O'Shea as a midfield player, as opposed to a utility player.

**Fergie's Son** · 09/04/2006, 9:00 PM

Pleat had some more interesting comments today. He noted that while Ferguson will buy a big-name midfielder in the summer that he would not be surprised to see O'Shea keep his place.

O'Shea was good in the air today and he didn't seem to be afraid of the ball like he has been in the past.

Given United's current run of form (9 wins in a row) with O'Shea in the team or in central midfield, I can see Ferguson having some tough decisions to make.

Also, United play a lot of games so having two established center midfielders would make sense.

**Superhoops** · 09/04/2006, 9:40 PM

Originally Posted by TheJamaicanP.M.

Good thread. I think it is time to reassess John O'Shea. He has had a good run of games in the one position, a position that he actually seems suited to. Prior to the friendly against Sweden, Graham Kavanagh would have been my first choice midfielder. However, now he is behind Reid and O'Shea in the pecking order. I was very impressed by the partnership of Reid and O'Shea that night. When one player went forward, the other was quick to cover. They complimented each other very well. Ireland completely bossed the midfield against Sweden that night, something I haven't seen them do in a while. Reid and O'Shea give us a physical presence we haven't had in a long time. I often felt during the Kinsella/Holland years that our midfield was slow in supporting the front pair. However, against Sweden, the midfield was very quick in pressing the opposition and getting forward when a long ball was played. When Kavanagh came on for the second half, it was actually noticeable how the tempo of our game dropped, although this may have been a result of the various changes made.

I know we shouldn't judge the O'Shea- Reid partnership on one game, but I think it offers great potential. They provide us with a great physical presence and athleticism in midfield, as well as being quite young. I think this is Staunton's first choice pairing and I expect him to persist with them.

O'Shea has put in some good performances for United recently. I still expect Ferguson to buy a big-name midfielder this season, but at least he now knows what O'Shea is capable of playing in the midfield. For that reason, he may now consider O'Shea as a midfield player, as opposed to a utility player.

Maybe my memory is fading, but my recollection of that game was that O'Shea was the poorest of the Irish players that night. Wasn't he replaced by Kavanagh just after half-time? and wasn't it only after Kavanagh and Miller (who replaced Joey O'Brien after about an hour) came on that we really got a grip on midlfield. Reid was excellent that night no argument, but JOS was not impressive at all that night.

**tricky_colour** · 09/04/2006, 10:39 PM

Statistically O'Shea is currently the 14th best player in the Prem, and Man U's
5th best player and best central midfielder by some way so I doubt very much
he will replaced in the Summer. His future with Ireland would seem to be
as a central midfielder however if you are going to play both Kavanagh and
Reid you might want to play him elsewhere although you could play Reid
on the right wing. I guess it depends on how you want to shuffle the pack.

**CraftyToePoke** · 09/04/2006, 10:56 PM

Originally Posted by tricky_colour

you could play Reid
on the right wing. I guess it depends on how you want to shuffle the pack.

i dont think its any coincidence that Reids recent return to form has coincided with an extended run in the middle at blackburn, so id be slow to move him, i think his attributes suit a more central role better.

**TheJamaicanP.M.** · 09/04/2006, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by Superhoops

Maybe my memory is fading, but my recollection of that game was that O'Shea was the poorest of the Irish players that night. Wasn't he replaced by Kavanagh just after half-time? and wasn't it only after Kavanagh and Miller (who replaced Joey O'Brien after about an hour) came on that we really got a grip on midlfield. Reid was excellent that night no argument, but JOS was not impressive at all that night.

Fair point you make. I just felt that O'Shea was quietly effective that night. While his performance was eclipsed by that of Duff, Keane, Dunne and Reid, he put in some good tackles and his distribution was good. When I heard before the game that he had been selected ahead of Kavanagh, I was a bit annoyed. All I could remember was the cowardly performance O'Shea had put in against Switzerland in October. His first meaningful touch of the ball that night came after 27 minutes. In contrast, I felt his performance against Sweden was assured and he complemented Reid nicely. Although we scored twice in the second half with Kav and Miller in midfield, these goals were scored on the break. I thought we didn't boss the midfield as much in the second half.

**TheJamaicanP.M.** · 09/04/2006, 11:22 PM

Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke

i dont think its any coincidence that Reids recent return to form has coincided with an extended run in the middle at blackburn, so id be slow to move him, i think his attributes suit a more central role better.

Exactly. Reid is constrained when he plays on the right wing. He is better employed in central midfield.

**Karlos** · 10/04/2006, 2:39 AM

Originally Posted by livehead1

i think your looking at it from the wrong perspective. What is happening with O'Shea at the moment is nothing short of sensational. He has gone from being a player lambasted by many on this board to one who has just kept one of the on form midfielders in Europe (Fabregas), quiet.

I've actually always been a fan of O'Shea and feel he get's some unjustified critisicm. Today however, i thought he had a decent game, nothing more. I would also disagree that he kept Fabregas quiet. For the first 25 minutes, he couldn't get close to him to even foul him and his touch and passing during that spell was shocking. United's dominance at home from the second half on was predictable after Arsenal failed to convert their early chances of which Fabregas was clearly instrumental in creating.

I do think O'Shea has a future at centre midfield for us and I would consider it his best position at present however, I would hope for a more dominant display over 90 minutes while playing for Ireland than the decent 65 minutes I witnessed today.

**CollegeTillIDie** · 10/04/2006, 6:09 AM

John O'Shea's problem is one which is reflected across the Premiership. He cannot defend. He is not alone in this, Danny Mills springs to mind. His redeeming quality is that not being able to defend is not the only string he has to his bow. As his recent midfield performances have revealed. Well done Boy !

**Stuttgart88** · 10/04/2006, 8:06 AM

O'Shea deserves credit for his recent run. Last week The Times gave him 8/10 for his performance against Bolton and his run of games in midfield has coincided with Championship winning form by MUFC so he must be doing something right.

He doesn't have that instinctive awareness that players like Fabregas or Alonso have, and Graham Kavangah is a far more natural central midfielder. But he is still capable of playing good uncomplicated passes and with both feet. I think it's notable that when he's not confined to the touchline his distribution is much better. He's got a decent touch and is mobile & athletic.

I don't think Steven Reid should be considered as an option for RHM as he's playing so well in CM for Blackburn. Reid has been what we've been crying out for since Japan in my opinion. I think O'Shea and Reid should be given more time together in CM for Ireland.

I also think there's a knee-jerk reaction to critcise O'Shea at all possible opportunity and not to give him credit when he deserves it. I thought he did OK against Sweden, nothing special but nothing calamitous either. I thought young Joey O'Brien looked pretty ropey at times and yet his debut was met with quite a fanfare on this board. I think O'Brien's a star in the making but I think the contrasting comment on their respective performances against Sweden spoke volumes.

I think O'Shea's got a way to go to establish himself as a central midfielder we can rely on, but he's been doing pretty well so far. That's all he can do.

**FarBeag** · 10/04/2006, 8:25 AM

I hate to be so pessimistic when it comes to jos. I know that he is playing well at present but so are all the Man U players, so confidence is obviously very high in the camp.I watched him come through the youth scene and he showed great potential but has not shown this form since.He is defo playing better football but I wont hold my breath until I see more consistently when he does it week in week out with club and country.I really hope for Irelands sake and his own that he pulls it off though.