QuoteHe reminds me a lot of Liam Miller who is, in the words of Damon Albarn in the song Tracy Jacks, " .......just so overrated"
Obviously he is a success.
Whether or not he is a good player is simply opinion, and can not be proven one way or another.
Whether or not he is a success can be determined by his achievements, of which he has made many.
He reminds me a lot of Liam Miller who is, in the words of Damon Albarn in the song Tracy Jacks, " .......just so overrated"
He was subbed again today or united after an hour. Failed to make any impression on the game.....can't figure him out really
well on 20/20 hindsight I would have dropped Hearte but I know we dont have a strong squad so there would be enough room for Josh.
I think Josh is going to be Irelands future in midfield, and a very good future too.
There was no way Harte was not going to be in the WC2002 squad. McCarthy nor any other manager has ever had the benefit of hindsight. So forget hindsight and suggest a player who should not have gone to accommodate O'Shea.Originally Posted by thejollyrodger
IMHO, if O'Shea is to be Ireland's future in midfield, we have serious problems, unless his midfield career at MU takes off dramatically. Currently he is not one of Ferguson's first names on the teamsheet. I believe he will end up in the role Phil Neville did for years, filling in when the regular first teamers are injured or suspended.
I hope I am wrong. For Ireland's sake I want O'Shea to succeed but I am doubtful he will unless he moves from MU.
Honest! I am not a secret Tim nor a closet Sham - I really am a Seagull.
well i think o shea should have least been brought to Japan, i think he will be a good player for ireland too. The matches ahead will soon tell us
I'm almost certain O'Shea had never played left full at that point, either for United or Ireland, only turned out for both at centre half. Even if he had gone, there's no way he would have been thrown into the World Cup in an unfamiliar position
why was roy always complaining that he wasnt brought then ??
a good article about Josh there, I think we are having problems in midfield now and it looks like we need to start phasing players in. I never thought of S.Reid though.O'Shea hastens midfield move
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http://www.unison.ie/irish_independe...issue_id=12895
NO matter what team Brian Kerr selects for Ireland's game against France next month, Ireland's manager will have to take an uncharacteristic gamble. Kerr has always been ready to adapt his sides, depending on the opposition, but following the unsatisfactory performance of the three-man midfield, as he would like it to be known, in the defeat to Italy last Wednesday, Ireland's return to 4-4-2 has only one, significant, worrying obstacle.
Kerr will probably select the team that drew in Paris, if he can, for what promises to be a special night in Dublin. Ireland will be facing a different French team which will include not only the three returning stars - Zidane, Thuram and Makelele - but Patrick Vieira, who was suspended for the game in Paris. But Ireland, even if Kerr can select the same side, may be different too. Roy Keane is a year older, a year closer to a retirement which may come next summer.
The only valid reason Kerr may have for playing with three men in central midfield is a desire to protect Keane as Manchester United have done. At Goodison Park last Saturday, Keane struggled with the physical commitment of Everton's Tim Cahill and could not, at times, close down the featherweight Mikel Arteta.
Against Makelele and Vieira, with Zidane hovering around, Keane's weary legs may be exposed and Kerr may have pondered the need for an extra midfielder, especially an athletic one like Steven Reid or John O'Shea, both of whom did well in those positions.
Reid is an interesting story. Within the Irish camp, he is rated highly as a player with something different to offer a team which is overloaded with busy, effective midfielders. Reid is strong, imposing and, when the mood takes him, very talented. He has been unlucky with injuries and his confidence is said to have suffered. But he finished last season well for Blackburn and now, if he stays fit, he will get his chance.
Some time ago, Keane assessed the ability of O'Shea to play in midfield with the words "John has a good football brain, see". O'Shea showed that on Wednesday night when he moved into midfield and brought a solidity lacking when the fading Matt Holland was doing the job. Alongside Keane, that intelligence would allow him to react to dangers Keane sees but can no longer do much about. With Kevin Kilbane - a favourite of Kerr and the French coaching staff - struggling with Everton, O'Shea has moved into a favourable position for a midfield job.
Kerr is unlikely to risk O'Shea in that role against France, but his performance in that position accelerated the process which may see him establish himself there in the future. Last season, Kerr watched Keane and O'Shea dominate the midfield against Tottenham at White Hart Lane and, after the defeat to Italy, he recalled a conversation shortly after that game with Alex Ferguson where United's manager confessed he was still searching for O'Shea's best position.
"John has the balance, the technique and the awareness for midfield, no doubt, he has the speed of thought too," Kerr says, but this is unlikely to be enough to promote him to that position for Ireland's most important game.
But it's a position in which O'Shea appears comfortable and one where his occasional concentration lapse is not as severely punished. He was slow to react for Italy's goals while playing at left-back, a failing that has cost United on occasion as well.
Kerr's decision to rest Keane, the injury to Graham Kavanagh and the withdrawal of Holland gave O'Shea his chance. "I had wanted to look at John in that position for some time and I got the opportunity tonight."
Ireland's manager recalled O'Shea's early career in that position and said "I might", when asked if he would pick him in central midfield against the French.
It would be a bold departure for the manager who would have to abandon many of his fundamentals, as well as one of his strikers, in order to lay down the midfield protection for Keane. That will not happen. Robbie Keane's goals ensure his place and he cannot play as a lone striker, even if Kerr sees the system as 4-3-3, not 4-5-1.
Kerr will hope it may not be needed. Roy Keane's sluggishness may just be the result of a lack of matches, but how many more will he play before the French game?
Instead there is another gamble the manager will take. He will hope for a big performance from Keane as he has given so many times on days and nights such as this. The prize for victory will be a giant step closer to a final major tournament; the price of failure for Keane will be the bitter reminder of football mortality. It will be a special night and Keane has always savoured those.
But there were justifiable reasons to question Kerr's experiment when he is unlikely to adopt it against the French. Kerr believes that the English football community can be "slaves" to 4-4-2 - even if Chelsea, Manchester United, Liverpool and Everton play variations on a five-man midfield as Newcastle are likely to do this season. Far from being alien to English football, like three centre backs ten years ago when Mick McCarthy was one of its exponents, it is the latest craze.
Kerr will hope for a big performance from Roy Keane as he has given so many times on days and nights such as this
Kerr insisted he might play the system against the French, especially as the manager, again, may be happier with a draw than anybody else who will cram into Lansdowne Road on the night. "We don't have to win," he says.
But Ireland could do with victory to rekindle the optimism felt after the draw in Paris but squandered over two games against the Israelis.
A victory in September would change all that, but it would also change the pattern of the group in a way that does not seem likely. Ireland will have to fight until the final day in October for their place in the World Cup or in a play-off. Brian Kerr has always believed that and at times, as he squandered leads in Tel Aviv and in Dublin, it has seemed like a self-fulfilling prophecy.
There are no sound predictions to be made for the French arrival in September. Games like that, as Brian Kerr, Roy Keane and every Irish player knows, move beyond rational explanation.
Dion Fanning
Because he's a moaner who always has to complain about something?
The ball is round and has many surprises.
I'll never forgive McCarthy for not bringing Josh to the WC2002. The man is a failure IMO.
O'Shea is absolute s***e. I can't believe people are suggesting he should have played in the WC ahead of Harte when he hadn't even played a full game for Utd. He's s***e now and he's got three years premiership experience behind him so how bad would he have been back then?
I agree Harte had a nightmare WC but he was good in the qualifiers and banged in a number of goals so at least he offers an attacking option even if he is suspect defensively. O'Shea is just dodgy defensively and has nothing else going for him.
Answer this question when has O'Shea ever been good for Ireland? Never, yet I remember him being absolutely rubbish on a number of occasions (the Israel game and the Swiss game in the Euro Championship qualifiers particularly stick out).
Agree entirely.
BTW, not people suggesting he should have gone to WC2002, only one person 'thejollyrodger' who still has not suggested who should have been left out of the squad to accommodate JOS. Oh yes, nearly forgot about Roy!!!
who in all this clamouring for other people to go, didnt go himself.
Honest! I am not a secret Tim nor a closet Sham - I really am a Seagull.
Lads there should be a middle ground. O Shea is not ****e and has been very good this season for Man Utd for anybody that has watched their games. He played well the other night when he was moved into midfiled. However I dont think he should have gone to the WC in 2002 as he had very little experiece and we were taking Cunningham Dunne, Staunton O Brien and Breen Finnan Harte and Kelly as defenders. All of them had much more international and club experience with them.
It seems to me that peoples opinions on O Shea are largely influenced by who he plays for which is rather sad.
In Trap we trust
You have a very short memory. When JOS first came to man utd he had a really good season, everyone was saying promising he was. He wasnt brought to man utd for nothing FFS.
I cant remember our full squad for WC 2002 but I know for definite there are 1-2 players back then that Jos would have pushed out of the squad if we had a proper manager.
Roy Keane knows more about football than you ever will you idiot.
Well said Neil, some balance is required. It's churlish to say he's sh***e end of story. He's had two bad games for Ireland. Everyone was crap in Basle the first time around and Given was every bit as culpable as O'Shea for Israel's equaliser. He's rarely been outstanding but by and large he has defended well.
I saw him against Everton and he was very good. If he played that well for Ireland at left back we wouldn't be discussing him.
I just read that O'Shea is not in MUFC's squad for the second leg of their CL qualifier tomorrow due to a minor injury. Was this why he was subbed against Villa or was he not playing well?
Last edited by Stuttgart88; 23/08/2005 at 10:28 AM.
I don't think he played too well to be honest, but wasn't bad either...fairly average. He won't make that back four when Heinze is fully match fit; Neville, Rio, Silvestre, Heinze will be the preferred back four.
Perhaps Josh should follow the lead of Phil Neville and make a move to a high(ish) profile club where he will be a bigger fish in a smaller pond and be guaranteed a regular position of his own.
AFAIK Henize is automatic first choice for Left Back but has been given a extended break because of all the games he has played in the Confederations Cup. Josh will have to push him for that position
Yes, he needs to pin down a regular spot in a regular position. Hopefully midfield. In fairness to him, Heinze is an excellent left-back & it's no shame being second choice to him. But until he establishes himself in one position he'll always be second choice at MUFC.
I thought he was playing ok against Villa but they needed a goal and deciced to freshen things up. I think Heinze needs games too so he is going to bring him slowly back into matches so I think that Heinze coming on for O Shea is going to be a common sub for the next few weeks. The fact that O Shea was likely to be carrying a knock means that the sub was inevitable. O Shea was excellent against Everton and in the European game too. I dont understand why people argue about players and let club loyalties etc get in teh way of an Irish international. When a player plays for Ireland I do not even consider what club he plays for etc and I watch the EPL largely as thats where our top players play and the reasons the games hold my attention is due to the Irish involvement. A bit of reasoned argument is needed here rather than personal insults etc.
In Trap we trust
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