Promotion Budget for FAI eircom League of Ireland

**pete** · 01/02/2007, 1:34 PM

Business page of todays Irish Times says McConnells won 400k advertising & direct marketing campaigh for the new league.

**BohsPartisan** · 01/02/2007, 1:36 PM

Lets hope its put to good use.

**Dr.Nightdub** · 01/02/2007, 1:39 PM

Pete, do you get the same PML newsletter as me, I was just about to post that?

�400k is a very respectable spend, shows a decent degree of commitment by the FAI, coming on top of the increased prize money

**pete** · 01/02/2007, 1:44 PM

Originally Posted by Dr.Nightdub

Pete, do you get the same PML newsletter as me, I was just about to post that?

Nope. Just reading the paper at lunch...

Is PML once a month? Sounds like something else

**dcfcsteve** · 01/02/2007, 2:16 PM

Originally Posted by Dr.Nightdub

Pete, do you get the same PML newsletter as me, I was just about to post that?

�400k is a very respectable spend, shows a decent degree of commitment by the FAI, coming on top of the increased prize money

Sorry Dr Nightdub, but �400k is absolute peanuts to be spending on promoting anything nationally over a 9month period.

That's an average of �44k a month for all of the league across all the Republic in a variety of media channels.

Chances are they'll probably come up with a joint TV/print campaign - a 15 or 30 second ad ad on the telly like back in the last 1980's. But such an ad would only feature on a few channels infrequently and at rubbish times of the day if you only have �400k to spend. And that's before the cost of national print media.

Spooky coincidence that the budget is the same as Delaney's annual salary though. Hmmm.....

garyderry · 01/02/2007, 2:19 PM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Sorry Dr Nightdub, but �400k is absolute peanuts to be spending on promoting anything nationally over a 9month period.

That's an average of �44k a month for all of the league across all the Republic in a variety of media channels.

Chances are they'll probably come up with a joint TV/print campaign - a 15 or 30 second ad ad on the telly like back in the last 1980's. But such an ad would only feature on a few channels infrequently and at rubbish times of the day if you only have �400k to spend. And that's before the cost of national print media.

Spooky coincidence that the budget is the same as Delaney's annual salary though. Hmmm.....

small steady steps in the right direction, this along with all the new promotion officers (seen loads of ads today for the rovers one), is all positive,

your winging about so much its all starting to fade into one

**paul_oshea** · 01/02/2007, 2:30 PM

1,000 euro a day for one person thats 400 man days for the year. its not great really in fairness.

**pete** · 01/02/2007, 3:25 PM

I don't know how long this campaign is to last but it may only be a League launch campaign.

Direct Marketing would suggest leaflet drop or similar...
Advertising does not inform is outdoor posters, print media or tv/radio.

For 400k i wonder how much goes to the Advertising Agency? Would 300 of the 400k be spent on media buys?

**Paraic** · 01/02/2007, 3:38 PM

Given the existing level of advertising, it can only be welcomed.

But contrasted it to the amounts spent on GAA, Rugby TV advertising throughout the year, it's a small drop in the ocean.

It makes you think about the kind of sponsors that football is attractive to in terms of product placement - I really can't think of a better sponsor for a rugby tournament than Heineken (well for the dublin 4 brigade anyways -not sure what the rugger buggers in munster and ulster drink).

we need something to drum up the interest - Setanta's sponsorship has been very effective in raising the profile of setant / the competition but it doesn't have the mass appeal in terms of product association.

But then the Carlsberg Cup didn't either. Maybe in a couple of years time when setanta expands to an All-Ireland cup we can have a joint Bushmills / Jameson deal that would make everyone happy !

400k ? - a small start, step in the right direction and with the promotional officer infrastructure coming on board, hopefully the FAI will be be able to see what value for money 400k campaigns can accrue.

**paul_oshea** · 01/02/2007, 3:52 PM

But contrasted it to the amounts spent on GAA, Rugby TV advertising throughout the year, it's a small drop in the ocean.

I am sure there is a term for it, but Vodafone and Guiness do a serious amount of advertising for the GAA DIRECTLY. It is of mutual benfit to both parties.

Also, whatever about adveritsing, everyone knows there is a league of Ireland, but the clubs are the same, what has changed, how does it really attract more people to it? to me, it doesn't, its the standard of football on display and further adventures in Europe that will attract more people a mon avis. What does one hope to achieve from advertising, realistically like?

**pete** · 01/02/2007, 4:37 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I am sure there is a term for it, but Vodafone and Guiness do a serious amount of advertising for the GAA DIRECTLY. It is of mutual benfit to both parties.

Advertising surveys results in a Sunday Paper. Guiness was most recognisable advertised brand followed by i think Bank of Ireland & Eircom (irish football). Others below these were Heineken, O2 etc...

**Magicme** · 01/02/2007, 6:27 PM

I believe they intend on some billboard campaigns too. Its a big start so lets give them some credit for making the effort instead of always moaning about them.

Jeeze! Men!

**Dr.Nightdub** · 01/02/2007, 9:46 PM

Steve, Pete, believe me as someone who works in marketing, �400k would go a decent way in terms of TV advertising - which I don't think would be the right choice of medium. If you were to focus on outdoor (billboards and bus shelters), it'd buy you a massive amount of exposure.

I don't have the info here at home to quantify it, I'll try and post something up over the weekend.

Reaching the likely target audience (blokes aged 18-35) is relatively straightforward and lends itself to a sharpshooter approach rather than the double-barrelled shotgun approach that big consumer brands of detergent, butter, phone or financial services companies have to use. We're not talking about going into the ad breaks in Corrie or the Late Late Show here.

I'm assuming the �400k has to cover both the cost of making the ads and of showing them. Production costs for outdoor are very low, compared to TV. The normal practice when pitching advertising is for the direct spend to be quoted - i.e. the �400k. Any fees going to the ad agency would be separate to that. McConnell's media wing is one of the top four media-buying agencies in the country so on the face of it, the FAI have made a good call in terms of agency selection.

As regards the "recall-ability" of Guinness (GAA), Heineken (Green Energy festival, rugby, etc), and so on mentioned by Pete, that relates to sponsorship which is a whole different kettle of fish.

**Gareth** · 01/02/2007, 9:58 PM

400k is better than the 100k or less that was used for the previous campaigns. But lets break it down.

there are roughly 400 games (events) to be promoted in the league. That boils down to 1000 euro a game to use for an event on average. This is subjected to vat and taxes I'd imagine so it would reduce it a bit more. Special focus on big games and Cup Finals etc so that would balance out less for an average game. So when it boils down to it you have a few hundred to promote a game and when you think a full page colour ad in the star costs Euro 18,990 according to http://www.nni.ie/star.htm then your looking at a pretty small budget.

I am totally open to correction and no doubt will be

**dcfcsteve** · 01/02/2007, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by garyderry

small steady steps in the right direction, this along with all the new promotion officers (seen loads of ads today for the rovers one), is all positive,

your winging about so much its all starting to fade into one

Feck off ! You've been stuck in the EL gutter for so long that you're just delighted to have a few scarps thrown at us from the FAI's gilt-edged dining table....

And disagreeing with someone isn't whinging. Unless you're whingeing here yourself....?

garyderry · 01/02/2007, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Feck off ! You've been stuck in the EL gutter for so long that you're just delighted to have a few scarps thrown at us from the FAI's gilt-edged dining table....

And disagreeing with someone isn't whinging. Unless you're whingeing here yourself....?

yeah i know yeah know marketing and we dont

but seriously it is a major start and if it keeps increasing year on year we might actually get somewhere,

in 20 years following the EL, the moves over the last year by the FAI seem on the face of it to be th most positive moves yet.

The only other big step was when the likes of Bohs and pats went full time.

**dcfcsteve** · 01/02/2007, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by Dr.Nightdub

Steve, Pete, believe me as someone who works in marketing, €400k would go a decent way in terms of TV advertising - which I don't think would be the right choice of medium. If you were to focus on outdoor (billboards and bus shelters), it'd buy you a massive amount of exposure.

Believe me Dr Nightdub - as someone who's professional career was in marketing and advertising (Procter & Gamble and Disney, if we need to size-up credentials ), €400k will do little for a national TV campaign - unless you want to air in awkward spots and unpopular day-parts with low GDP's and for an extremely limited period of time. In otherwords - spend sh!t, get sh!t.

As for the media channels you're recommending - outdoor ?!?! What use is that going to be to the EL ? They're primary benefit is in raisign awareness for a very narrow message (which is endemic to the medium). Most people know that there is football in Ireland. Most simply don't care, or have never thought of it. The EL therefore needs clever marketing to generate an interest in the league, and convert that interest into motivation towards trial, in the face of at best antipathy and at worst down-right antagonism towards the product. Outdoor media would be absolutely useless at even scratchign the surface on that.

Originally Posted by Dr.Nightdub

Reaching the likely target audience (blokes aged 18-35) is relatively straightforward and lends itself to a sharpshooter approach rather than the double-barrelled shotgun approach that big consumer brands of detergent, butter, phone or financial services companies have to use. We're not talking about going into the ad breaks in Corrie or the Late Late Show here.

Firstly - why are you defining 18-34yr olds males (to use the correct demographic) as the key target audience for EL football ? I would've thought it was more important to pitch it as a family event myself - bringing in groups of 2-4 fans at a time, and attracting the supporters of the future. How many football fans first got into their team by beign brought as a kid to a match by their dad, uncle etc ? A huge proportion, I would assert. There is definitely a role for the 18-34yr olds males, but I'm not convinced they'd be your primary or even sole target (expanded on below).

Secondly - every fecker in the world is after the classic 18-34yr old age bracket, given their relatively large disposable income. That makes the cost of marketing effectively to these individuals extremley expensive, and the conversion rate much lower without massive levels of repetition (due to such a crowded market of products all vying for their attention). This is basic Advertising Dr Nightdub !

Thirdly - that age group is extremley fickle, particular in its lower ages. They are flooded with alternative entertainment options in the modern Ireland. If their mates aren't up for going to the EL, neither will they be. €400k isn't going to even begin a decent teaser campaign in giving the EL the sense of credibility amongst such a demandign target audience, let alone a full-on campaign to do so. Conversely - theer are much less family-oriented lesire activities out there, which is why i would be drawn more towards that market than the cool, young, fickle singletons with access to cash and a plethora of entertainment options.

Originally Posted by Dr.Nightdub

I'm assuming the €400k has to cover both the cost of making the ads and of showing them. Production costs for outdoor are very low, compared to TV. The normal practice when pitching advertising is for the direct spend to be quoted - i.e. the €400k. Any fees going to the ad agency would be separate to that. McConnell's media wing is one of the top four media-buying agencies in the country so on the face of it, the FAI have made a good call in terms of agency selection.

It was reported as a €400k budget/spend. That therefore states that that is the media expenditure they have - i.e. production costs are separate. Again - fairly basic stuff in Marketing/advertising, no ?

Originally Posted by Dr.Nightdub

As regards the "recall-ability" of Guinness (GAA), Heineken (Green Energy festival, rugby, etc), and so on mentioned by Pete, that relates to sponsorship which is a whole different kettle of fish.

Any EL marketing campaign really has it's job cut out for it if it wants to be anything more than a token gesture. It has the problem of taking a currently ignored/unpopular/uncool entertainment product, convincing sceptical and/or antagonistic consumers about its appeal and merits (which they instinctively question anyway)in the midst of multiple alternative entertainment options, creating an initial interest amongst consumers in that product, developing awareness of when and where they can 'consume' it, and then converting that interest and awareness into direct trial. 400k and a couple of posters at a bus stop is not the answer to that marketing dilemma on any planet.....

**dcfcsteve** · 01/02/2007, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by garyderry

yeah i know yeah know marketing and we dont

but seriously it is a major start and if it keeps increasing year on year we might actually get somewhere,

in 20 years following the EL, the moves over the last year by the FAI seem on the face of it to be th most positive moves yet.

The only other big step was when the likes of Bohs and pats went full time.

Fisrtly - why the belief that it'll increase at all, or even continue ? I'm afraid I don't share your faith in the EL Gary.

Secondly - we had more central FAI Marketing in the late 1980's for the LOI than we've had at any time since (which reinforced my lack of faith stated previously). I remember distinctly a 15sec spot that ran on RTE - featured Liam Coyle running rings around 3 players. Not a bad wee ad at a basic level. I also recall radio ads from the same campaign, and pre-produced posters given out to each club to advertise their upcomign games. I bet you all that cost more than the equivalent of €400k in 1980's money. You're old enough to remember this stuff too Gary...? So how can this be considered a better move than that ?

I'm glad the FAI are finally spending some money on marketing the EL. But for fcuk sake, if they're going to bother to do it at all they should do it right ! What's the point in blowing €400k on an initiative that will have little or no impact. I mean seriously - what is the fcuking point ! They blow way more on pathetic tedious things on a monthly basis. An association that 'Cares about Irish football' should care a bit more than €400k to relaunch its senior football league.

If any money is getting spent promoting our league it should be by the sponsors anyway ! Do the FA, SFA etc advertise their leagues themselves ?? Eircom have huge media and advertising experience and budgets, and phenomenal buying power to secure the best rates. Why can't the FAI follow the obvious lead of the GAA and Rugby and get their sponsors to market the product that they are sponsoring. Then the FAI can focus on football. Like - d'uhhhhh !

**soccerc** · 01/02/2007, 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

An association that 'Cares about Irish football' should care a bit more than �400k to relaunch its senior football league.

Steve
The "We care about Irish football" tag was dropped in 2004 for a number of reasons.

The man one because of the negativity it commanded.

It was also 'fostered' from fifa/uefa campaign or as one fellow colleague said at a meeting 'festered from those gob****es, thieves and charlatans in Switzerland'.

**Dr.Nightdub** · 02/02/2007, 1:19 AM

Steve, if you want to be snide, go ahead on your own. I've twenty years' marketing experience with Nestle and a couple of local food companies so let's not play CV oneupmanship, yeah?

I'm entirely ignoring your comments about TV as I clearly stated I didn't think it was the right medium. Dunno why you launched into it as a medium - "I agree" would've done the trick. So let's park the medium issue for a bit til we define the objectives first - start with who to talk to and what to say to them.

If you want to target families, you run smack into a potentially deal-breaking problem. You don't have a product to market to them in terms of basic facilities. �400k worth of award-winning advertising in any medium isn't gonna persuade families to regularly put up with the sub-standard facilities on offer compared to the plusher family-entertainment alternatives already available. "Come to beautiful, state-of-the-art Richmond Park"? I don't think so. I don't think the League is in any shape to target families - yet. It needs a ton of infrastrucural investment before we can get to that point.

In terms of return on investment, and allowing a rough average of a tenner a skull and assuming the whole of that incremental tenner is clear profit, that �400k is gonna have to generate roughly 40,000 visits to LoI games just to cover itself (I'm assuming they'll have a new budget in 2008). How best to get that?

Putting it crudely, customer recruitment and revival.

Recruitment of 18-24s, a lot of whom can't afford to drink in pubs or won't get served, by giving them somewhere new and exciting to go with their mates of a Friday where they can be a bit loud and rowdy as is their wont. You're a football fan Steve, can you think of a better buzz for them that's legal? I don't buy the idea of a plethora of alternatives available to them - not outside the home. That's why I wanna talk to them outside the home, not cos I have a hard-on for 6-sheets.

Revival of 25-34s who used to come but don't anymore - by persuading them that it's improved and is worth coming back to. Let "Kevin Doyle of Cork City, Reading and Ireland" be the poster-boy if that's what it takes, I'm not that hung-up on club loyalties if this is advertising for the League. Though "Anthony Stokes of Shelbourne, Sunderland and Ireland" might be a tad unfortunate in the current circumstances - another thing to thank Ollie for.

Hence getting them while they're young men - the older men with sons are likely to be more demanding than we're able to satisfy at this point. With the snail's pace of ground improvements in this country, my targets are gonna be grown up into family men before we can talk to them AS family men.

I dunno how far �400k would stretch in UK terms. But I do know - because I've done it - that �400k can go quite a long way here. I'm assuming that it's creative AND media, as much by the wording of the announcement as anything - if it was media only, the pitch would've more likely been announced as having been won by MCM rather than McConnells and it wouldn't make sense to pitch media alone with no parallel creative pitch. Unless Delaney is gonna play copywriter, in which case, we're f�cked anyway.

The bit that does worry me from a narrow marketing perspective is wondering what the hell kind of brief this was hung on. Of all the personnel in Merrion Square, their Marketing Manager has to be the lowest-profile of the lot so I don't know what kind of previous he or she has. No reason why the FAI can't add a marketing ****-up to their impressive dominant share of the ****-ups market.

I agree with you about trying to get eircom to pull their weight, but I suspect it's likely to be a futile plea. We all know eircom are only interested in the sponsorship of the national team, the League is just a nuisance-value add-on. So better to separate sponsorship of the League from that of the national team. I know the GAA are considering rolling bogball and hurling sponsorship up into one mega-package (having successfully split them for years) but they're promoting two codes of one masterbrand - GAA - which are on more or less the same footing (in the counties where they're played). We're talking about two vastly different levels of one code.

In fact, bearing in mind the age profile of your average LoI-goer now - young, male, less likely to be a homeowner, it's no wonder eircom have no interest in the League. O2 or Vodafone or Meteor would be far more appropriate. So let's put a League-only sponsorship package in front of them, let them prove themselves on the League then dangle the international carrot.

Note to FAI Marketing Manager if you're reading: feel free to plagiarise.