Originally Posted by Wolfie
Wouldn't really! Neither of them cover enough ground efficiently enough to be an independant central midfielder. Carsley's defensive merits and Irelands passing/playmaking are obvious compliments but you'd need a third midfielder in there, for me anyway.
Agree. I think Ireland looks exposed if there's not two other central midfielders around him. He'd be very useful in a 4-5-1 formation away from home but he's not yet an option for the 4-4-2 against competitive opposition.
Ideally a fourth &+ fifth too.
Lads he plays every week with Joey Barton in the City Midfield in the Premiership which is a higher level than San Marino. Ireland has been better than Barton but its Barton that gets the headlines as he is English. I would have no fears of playing Carsley and Ireland in the centre against San Marino.
People in this country seem to think you need big physical lads in the midfield but the most important part of any central midfielder is an abilty to keep the ball and have good passing and good vision and control. Ireland has this abundance. Fabregas is not exactly big and strong and neither was jonny giles. I would rather have a midfield with Ireland in it than either Kilbane or O Shea whos inability to keep the football and control the game loses the game for us so many times.
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Call me old fashioned but I wouldnt move our best left winger to right wing just to accomodate a left winger who has never played for us before.
you're right he plays with barton, but he also plays with dabo, who would be more in the carsley role. hunt would be the barton if we continue the analogy.
ireland, on form, is our best midfielder and deserves to start. but its worth remembering that kilbane/ireland was the worst CM i've ever seen for us. there's no doubt carsley and ireland would work against SM but with that logic you could argue that we play 2-3-5. v wales we cant play carsley ireland(a.reid) and mcgeady/duff. so we need to do something different i feel. thats why i proposed a 433 earlier, i'm not convinced but given the players available i think it would be a good idea
Kilbane and Ireland will not work against anyone but Ireland and Carsley will work against San marino. That is due to the fact that Kilbane cannot play central midfield and he got away with it for one or 2 games as he had roy keane beside him. He has no idea how to move for a pass or how to pick a pass and to control the speed of the game the way Keane could or to a lesser extent the likes of Carsley and Kinsella and Matt Holland could. Not saying any of these are top players but they know the role of a central midfielder and Kilbane does not.
I think from talking to people it seems that people who like GAA like players like Kilbane.
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do you think ireland would be fine in a 4 man midfield with two wingers against wales/slovakia?
second paragraph, i'd say he'd make a fine gaelic player, great athlete, engine, no skill, and he can sing amhrán na bhfiann!
well summarised Neil. I think the problem with KK is that there are two ways of looking at him. One is that people appreciate the effort that he puts in despite being of limited ability and would like to see him incorporated into the team in some position
The second is that people can't stand him.
I'm fond of him, and would like to see him tried as an auxilary left back, on a trial say. The one thing I worry about this team is the size. There is no denying that we have a small team. If most people were to list their ideal XI, the majority would have maybe 2 players 6 foot plus (Dunne + McShane). Now while this isn't a problem against San Marino or Cyprus, it would be a problem against the likes of Germany and the Czechs who have big physical teams.
Here they come! It’s the charge of the “Thanks” Brigade!
Even someone like Frank Lampard never plays in the centre of a 4-4-2 at Chelsea because he's an attacking midfielder. A defensive/holding midfielder partnering a box to box player is what any manager would play in a 4-4-2. Ireland isn't a box to box player (from what I've seen).
Kilbane was ok in midfield when he played with Keane and Kavanagh but Stan played him in a defensive role in Cyprus. Kilbane has no positional sense or football brain at all so you don't give him the most important role in the team. We lost possession and there was no midfield. Every single time we lost possession I feared Cyprus would score. I don't think I'll ever see another Ireland manager make as big a mistake in my lifetime tbh.
I agree that Ireland-Carsley would work against San Marino but I wouldn't risk it against a decent team. Ireland hasn't proven himself as a central midfielder at all yet.
Last edited by eirebhoy; 02/02/2007 at 5:12 PM.
McGeady is out & who has he called up - Alan O’ Brien. Unbelievable.
I've long felt that to incorporate Stephen Ireland into the team he must be partnered by Steven Reid, the only midfielder we have that has the stamina, strength & comfort in the middle of the pitch that the vastly underrated Joey Barton has. Yes, Barton's a horrible character but he's a fine footballer.
Alas, Reid's latest injury leaves me feeling that waiting for him to fulfil his potential will be like waiting fot Godot.
Alternatively, we have a wealth of players who'd add value between a 3 man midfield and the front two.
Ireland, Andy Reid, Robbie, McGeady, McPhail and others could excel in an advanced playmaker role but that'd by necessity require us to give up our traditional width. We can't, for the time being at least, continue to build our team around Duff and you could argue that with Finnan at RB and KK at LB you'd still have that width. A 3 man midfield of Carsley centre, Hunt and maybe Douglas would be solid and have a lot of bite.
That said, I think that it's great that Irealnd is playing well at City but he still needs time to mature if he's to be a regular international footballer against better quality teams. Andy Reid remains our best creative central midfielder and I'd play he & Carsley, Hunt left, Duff right if all were fit.
Hunt and S. Quinn's performance in last 8 weeks have been among many small positives as an Irish footballer watcher recently. Kilbane's slipping towatrds his natural level, i.e., better end of the Championship, has been one of the negatives.
Miller's ommission from the squad is a big step forward for us.
As this is teh thread for the starting 11 versus San Marino I have put what I think should be the 11 for that game. When the Wales game and the Slovakia game comes around I will put what I think should be the starting 11 for both those games. At the moment Ireland deserves to play in the centre for ireland with Carsley versus San Marion. He is the best fit player we have at the moment to open a team up with a pass
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We forgot to wish KK a happy 30th on Wednesday
I like Kilbane as a guy and I think he is a credit to the shirt etc. But he should only ever be consider in either left back or maybe at a push left side of midfield if we are stuck. Never in the middle.well summarised Neil. I think the problem with KK is that there are two ways of looking at him. One is that people appreciate the effort that he puts in despite being of limited ability and would like to see him incorporated into the team in some position
The second is that people can't stand him.
I'm fond of him, and would like to see him tried as an auxilary left back, on a trial say. The one thing I worry about this team is the size. There is no denying that we have a small team. If most people were to list their ideal XI, the majority would have maybe 2 players 6 foot plus (Dunne + McShane). Now while this isn't a problem against San Marino or Cyprus, it would be a problem against the likes of Germany and the Czechs who have big physical teams.
In Trap we trust
I actually CANNOT believe Alan O'Brien has been called up for McGeady... The recurring joke has become all too real... And If he gets a game ahead of someone like Hunt...
Stan's replaced a winger in McGeady, with another winger in Alan O'Brien. O'Brien's been getting a few games in recent weeks for Newcastle (although he hasn't really impressed). It's like for like, I've no problem with O'Brien's call up. There's no real obvious name to replace McGeady besides O'Brien.
On the other hand if he starts.....
Henderson
Finnan McShane Dunne Harte
McGeady Ireland Carsley Duff
Keane Stokes
I suppose McGeady would be good enough even though he is injured
I would play Hunt now that we dont have Mc Geady
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