Dermot Ahern's comments on an all Ireland side

[EalingGreen]

As for my "less than positive comments about the ROI* football team", actually, I'm positive they're my comments. Care to discuss any of them specifically?

I neither welcome or don't welcome your views. I am just surprised that someone has time in their life to contribute to the forum of a team they don't like. In fact you seem to really despise the Irish team judging be your comments below. So my view is that it's a little depressing, that's all.

I think your poem on your merger thread is in poor taste (I've not copied it here). I suggest that it would guide any youngsters to hate rather than build bridges. Anyway you are entitled to your views on this team, and you are clearly an articulate guy. It's a shame you take such pleasure when Ireland lose. I'm not sure where the term "Beggar" comes from, & frankly I'm glad I don't. The irony is you also reproach some ROI fans on your thread for supporting NI opponents.

For what its worth I've always wanted NI to do well - if we are not involved. I shall therefore end exposure to the NI forum less it negatively influences me.

"God this is funny: the ROI's only hope is that everything we've seen so far is just a "blip", so that Stan really is the Man! "

"Maybe the GAWA should have a whip-round for him; after all, he's given us so much joy already in his short career, we should let him know how much we appreciate him. Perhaps Maiden City could devise an appropriate Christmas Card and we could all send Stan one, along with every other Beggar we know!  

"Have Yourself a Very Merry Cyprus"
"All I want for Christmas is my old job back"
"Oh Little Town of Nicosia"
"Oh I wish you could meet Cyprus every day"

Like most people who post on Message Boards, sometimes I'm serious, sometimes I'm just out for a laugh.

Regarding the latter, I freely accept that my sense of humour might not appeal to everyone (anyone?), but I had hoped people could at least see what I was attempting. Do you need me to spell it out for you?

Or is it that you don't think rival football fans should engage in a bit of banter? If so, then perhaps you're a bit of a wallflower...

For the record, the song I posted was as follows:
"Only One Team in Ireland,
There's only One Team in Ireland
The Other Lot's Shi te,
But We're Doin' Allright
Winnin' in a Windsor Wonderland"

OK, it will never win any prizes for Literature. Or Music. Or even Comedy. But as fans who in very recent times have had to live through following a team which was "Unutterably Shi te", with all the accompanying jibes that went with it, I'd have thought it was only human nature to have a giggle. (Besides, Schadenfreude might not be the most attractive of human sentiments, but neither is it the most harmful. And it was the Germans invented it, in any case)

Oh, and I don't despise the ROI team, whatever my views on certain aspects of the team and their supporters. Over the years, I've been to a few ROI matches (not vs NI, that is), including in Italia 90, and enjoyed the occasion. And were it not for v.short notice and prior commitments, I'd have been happy to accept a kind invitation to meet the London ROI Supporters' Club this very evening, especially seeing as I enjoyed myself at their last "do".

P.S. Neither do I know where the term "Beggar" comes from, but I have to say, if that's the worst thing I'm ever called in life, I'll be happy enough.

P.P.S. Anyone who doesn't think Stan's Press Conferences are the funniest thing since "Father Ted" is severely lacking in the humour department. (Or is my fondness for that sitcom further evidence of how much I "despise" all things "Oirish" as well?)

[Not Brazil]

eh? Do you think Ahern wants this so we have a better chance of making a World cup? There's a reason the views on this forum are in complete contrast to those on the Northern Ireland forum.

No.

I find it mildly amusing that Ahern goes about "uniting" Ireland, by annoying many of the people he seeks to be "united" with.

There'll be a so called "united" Ireland when the people of Northern Ireland register that desire at the ballot box, and it is endorsed by the people of the Republic of Ireland.

Then there might be an All Ireland team.

The supporters of the Northern Ireland football team are not interested in merging with the ROI team - or any other team(s).

If Ahern thinks that disenfranchising people he wishes to be "united" with is the best way to go about "uniting" Ireland, good luck to him. Maybe the penny will drop for him some day.

What's the reason for the contrasting views between here and the Northern Ireland forum ?

[galwayhoop]

What's the reason for the contrasting views between here and the Northern Ireland forum ?

higher percentage of people on this forum would support the notion of a united ireland than on the NI forum - obviously...

or was that an attempt at trolling???

[EalingGreen]

LOL: I just loooove this matey 'your our nearest rivals' claptrap. Where does it stem from?

If you want to know where I got the phrase "nearest rivals" from, I suggest you consult a map.

The thing is the IFA have been turned over far more by their fellow 'British' associations and yet there isn't anywhere near the animosity to them that there is to the FAI.

If you really want to know my attitude to the other 3 Associations, I can give them to you since you clearly have no idea what I think on that subject. But seeing as this is an ROI site, I hardly think it's relevant.

The desire for an all-Ireland team is down to politics. I personally would like to see an all-Ireland team because I'd like to see an all-Ireland state. Simple as that. I guess Mr Aherne is the same. Don't like it? Tough!

My support for the NI football team has little or nothing to do with my politics. Neither has my support e.g. for the Ireland rugby team. Whilst sport and politics inevitably overlap from time to time, I try to keep the two separate wherever possible. Consequently, your views on politics are of no interest to me. As for your views on the desirability of a single Irish team, you are entitled to them, from whatever motivation they derive. Personally, I really don't see there being a single team in my lifetime. Don't like it? Tough!

As for '20% free'? We're getting that 20% free already and the contributors of the 56 pages on OWC can write another 56 pages but that's not going to change.

The matter to which you refer (player eligibility) has yet to be determined by FIFA. I wouldn't be so sure that it will go your way if I were you.

Anyway, I think it's laughable hypocrisy to bleat on about 'poaching' by a 'foreign association' - more accusations of 'tapping up' and 'inducements', but yet no evidence- and using 'Ireland', when the IFA have picked players who have never lived in the 6C nor have any family connection with it, and also continued to use the name 'Ireland' itself long after players from the 26C stopped playing for them in 1950.

Despite "tapping up" being an offence that is self-evidently always going to be difficult to prove, I have seen persuasive evidence in at least two cases (statements by Chris Baird and Kieran McKenna)
As for using the name "Ireland", the IFA had that name since 1880, so that when FIFA adjudicated on such matters in the 50's, they determined that the IFA team be called "Northern Ireland" and the FAI team "Republic of Ireland", to avoid confusion at World Cups etc. However, it was accepted that the IFA could continue to use the name "Ireland" for British Championship matches, which they did only for another 20-odd years.
As for our picking players who have never lived in "the 6C" [sic], this is done within FIFA Rules the same as every other country and has nothing whatever to do with the issue of "tapping up" players from the jurisdiction of another National Association.
As for players with no "family connection" with NI, I know only of two examples Trevor Woods (from Jersey) and Maik Taylor (South African background, I think). Both were eligible for a UK Passport, but had no international team to represent (TW) or former connection with any other Association (MT). Presented therefore with a choice of which four countries they might further their career, both opted for NI, with the open agreement of the other three Associations. As such, this was entirely in keeping with the relevant FIFA regulations governing the matter. Neither example has anything to do with the case you are trying to make

As for the laughable suggestion that the FAI only picks Taigs, FFS, is that a serious statement?

That is not what I posted, nor implied. What I believe is that if the FAI are "tapping up" youngsters who have already represented NI at junior level, it would be a greater risk to approach those with a Protestant/Unionist background, since they might be more likely to decline and disclose what was happening.

That if George Best came along and said he was available, the FAI would turn round and tell him we only pick Catholics?

See answer above.

What happened with Alan Kernaghan?

I don't know whether this indicates you are stupid or ignorant (or both). AK was born in England, but brought up in NI by English born parents. As such, he represented NI schoolboys, since international rules require schoolboys to represent the country of their education, not birth. Later on he wanted to represent NI at senior level. However, in those days the IFA (stupidly imo) only recognised parents born in NI as granting eligibility for those players not themselves born there. The fact that AK's grandparent were NI-born and bred was not sufficient.
However, the ROI did allow Grandparents to qualify him (regardless of which part of Ireland from which they came), so he applied successfully to the FAI, with no objection from the IFA.
My attitude to this was that the IFA was being stupidly rigid; I do not hold it against either AK or the FAI for helping each other out, on the contrary, I was actually pleased for the big fella, who maintained a dignified stance throughout the whole episode.

The nun with the gift for sniffing out prods was on leave that day? I tell you what EG, it's nice to see you haven't lost your fine skill in 'hablando cojones.'

I'll leave it to other posters to determine who's "talking balls" here.

[Not Brazil]

higher percentage of people on this forum would support the notion of a united ireland than on the NI forum - obviously...

or was that an attempt at trolling???

Not trolling at all.

The observation you make is pretty obvious, but I thought eirebhoy was maybe going to offer a reason as to why the people on respective boards have contrasting opinions.

He said there was a reason, but didn't state it.

[Wolfie]

However, certain Northern ROI fans are sometimes very different i.e. their allegiance is more than just a preference or affinity for a team, it is also a very definite statement against our team. (I'll not even go into the political shi t that often goes with it, since life's too short)

Second, in more settled times, at least, the more reasonable NI fans might not be totally averse to a new, united team so long as it was just that: "new" and "united". But I have to say, whether out of malice, ignorance or simply not having thought about it, the unspoken implication of ROI-supporting proponents of a single team is that it would be the existing ROI team (or "Ireland" as it is invariably, but erroneously referred to), with a few NI players added to the squad.

Third, whenever there is a call for a single team, it is almost always from someone in the FAI/ROI camp, usually most vocally at a time when the ROI team is not doing so well and/or the NI team is doing OK. Examples of the call were often to be heard in e.g. the mid 1980's, but they weren't so loud three or four years back* when we were awful and couldn't buy a goal, never mind a victory. This severely ****es me off (for one) and hardly reassures me of the bona fides of those demanding to merge.

Finally, the issue is especially sensitive at the moment, due to the thorny issue of player eligibility. Now I think most reasonable NI fans would accept that if an NI-born player prefers to opt for the ROI, then that should be his prerogative. However, it is something else indeed if that player were to switch from representing NI as a result of being "tapped up", even induced, especially where that player had previously come up through the NI youth system and had been settled as an NI player. D

First off, Ealing Green has shown a bit of bottle to offer a different side to the debate - so hats off there - however.........

Regarding certain Northern ROI fans who are sometimes very different i.e. their allegiance is more than just a preference or affinity for a team, it is also a very definite statement against our team.

This situation works both ways - cast your selective memory back to Belfast in 1993 when NI played ROI. One of the most poisonous atmospheres vented towards a visiting team. Much of the provocative and hate filled behaviour was to spite the ROI team.

How can the Northern ROI fans identify with a Northern Irish team that persecutes / discriminates against its Nationalist players - Rogan, Lennon...etc.

You mention that certain NI fans might not be totally averse to a team that was "New" and "United". Your suggestion is that all pre-conditions should come from the NI end.

Personally, I'd have a few reservations and pre-conditions of my own should a united team ever be anywhere near a reality (which it isn't).

This "poaching" issue is farcical. These players have all weighed up the options and made their choice with their eyes open.

[EalingGreen]

First off, Ealing Green has shown a bit of bottle to offer a different side to the debate - so hats off there - however.........

Regarding certain Northern ROI fans who are sometimes very different i.e. their allegiance is more than just a preference or affinity for a team, it is also a very definite statement against our team.

This situation works both ways - cast your selective memory back to Belfast in 1993 when NI played ROI. One of the most poisonous atmospheres vented towards a visiting team. Much of the provocative and hate filled behaviour was to spite the ROI team.

How can the Northern ROI fans identify with a Northern Irish team that persecutes / discriminates against its Nationalist players - Rogan, Lennon...etc.

You mention that certain NI fans might not be totally averse to a team that was "New" and "United". Your suggestion is that all pre-conditions should come from the NI end.

Personally, I'd have a few reservations and pre-conditions of my own should a united team ever be anywhere near a reality (which it isn't).

This "poaching" issue is farcical. These players have all weighed up the options and made their choice with their eyes open.

Thank you for the compliment (though I don't think being a "keyboard warrior" takes that much bottle! )

Re. affinity to/hostility against supporting teams, I would indeed agree that the situation works both ways. I would not deny that for some (many?) fans, their support for NI is at least partly a means of "proving their loyalty". However, that attitude is unquestionably being refined to one of merely supporting guys from your "own wee patch" for its own sake and the (imo extraneous) trappings of Loyalism etc are largely eliminated from Windsor
these days.
As for 1993, I agree it was deplorable, but I would make three points.
1. As someone who was there, I really don't feel it was quite so "apocalyptic" as the account, perpetrated mostly by people who weren't there, would now have it (GSpain was there with the ROI support and he actually thought it hugely exagerrated, as he has posted here before);
2. I was at the Spurs v Arsenal match on Wednesday - "Now That's What I Call 'Poison' Vol. 84";
3. A huge amount has changed in the 14 years since, as acknowledged by neutral and qualified observers on frequent occasions. Of course, it is by no means perfect and may never be, but do not be deceived into thinking nothing's changed, since it undoubtedly has. Let's face it, Paisley and Adams preparing to get "into bed with each other" even 4 years ago, never mind 14, is proof if needed of how things can change. (Horrible metaphor, I know!)

How does the "NI team persecute/discriminate against its own Nationalist players? By picking them?
It is true that Rogan did get abused on occasion by a section of the NI support which plagued us in those days. However, it is also overlooked that he was also actually given a standing ovation for his best NI display when substituted in the 84th minute of a friendly v Uruguay in 1990, when only the "true" NI fans were in attendance. Further, by the time he gained his 17th and final cap nearly 15 years ago, he had by then moved to Sunderland, a club team of no great significance for NI fans. (Besides, I have heard non-footballing reasons which contributed to his not continuing to play for NI, from a source which I trust, but whose confidence I do not wish to betray)

As for Lennon, there has grown an entire mythology around his predicament, frequently perpetuated by NI's detractors, working from a clear Agenda.
The facts are these: after he signed for Celtic, Lennon was indeed booed in his next NI international (a 0-4 gubbing at home to Norway). However, this was a small minority, made up mostly of Rangers/Linfield fans, some of which at least will only have been there to make their presence felt.
Typically, either these knuckle-draggers didn't bother to turn up, or possibly were deterred from repeating their "display" at the next match (home v Czechs), since I can honestly state that NL was cheered every time he got the ball, by fans determined to try and demonstrate that we weren't all as portrayed in the media.
Indeed, over the next few months, NL went on to play in a further three matches (2 at home), which clearly shows he had got over the initial furore (to his great credit).
Then, when he was honoured with the captaincy for the next match (some "persecution" there, eh?), away to Czech Republic, some unknown cretin phoned a death threat to a Belfast Newspaper, which NL sadly had to take seriously, so that he retired. There is absolutely no evidence that the perpetrator had any connection whatever with the team or its support; sadly, it is enough for a Catholic to achieve some prominence or distinction to make someone or other in NI want to hate him, the football being an irrelevance. Anyhow, his treatment cannot always have been so bad as commonly made out, for NL to perservere with 39 appearances over several years, for a generally pretty crap team. (Not that that in any way excuses any abuse he received).
And in any case, it is widely held amongst the NI support that NL was the final straw which forced everybody to stop brushing things under the carpet and start cleaning up properly. Now I accept that this was far too late, but we can't change history (only the propagandists think they can), but we can change the present and the future, which is what increasingly has been happening in the now nearly 7 years since NL's retirement. [Of course, this account is just how I've seen things, coloured as it inevitably will be by my own preferences and prejudices. However, I would urge anyone who doubts my account simply to read NL's autobiography. From his unique perspective, NL doubtless sees things differently again, but I am confident I'm not that far from the truth]

As for a "new", "united" team, I most definitely would not propose that NI should arbitrarily or unilaterally impose preconditions - quite the contrary. Instead, I would require that we start with a clean slate, which means that if anyone thinks the existing NI team can be somehow absorbed into the ROI team (as is the impression some ROI fans give), then that simply will not work.
For example, those proponents of a single team would need to accept that e.g. half of any games be played in Belfast, that the Tricolour and Soldiers Song as well as the NI flag and GSTQ would need to be dropped etc etc. before any proposal would even be considered by the NI support.

As for the poaching issue, I fear you are being naive if you think "tapping up", which is absolutely rife in club football, is not capable also of going on in international football, or that faced with inducements of one sort or another, all 16 or 18 year olds are capable of making cool choices, with "their eyes wide open". In my experience, that's not how life, or football, works.

[dr_peepee]

Can't you see this barnyard guessing game is tearing us appart

[EalingGreen]

Can't you see this barnyard guessing game is tearing us appart

Next you'll be telling us it's a duck...

[theleprechaun]

is there any chance we can get a poll going on this?

[dr_peepee]

That's what she said!!

[Paddy Garcia]

[QUOTE=EalingGreen;611713]Like most people who post on Message Boards, sometimes I'm serious, sometimes I'm just out for a laugh.
[QUOTE]

The "I'm just out for a laugh" attitude I am unfortunately all too familiar with, notably ubiquitous in the 1970's in England. Sorry but frankly I prefer the honesty of the billy boys than an erudite apologist.

[Lionel Ritchie]

Lopez

Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie
...there is in fact a better chance that any of us would play under a duvet with Felicity Shagwell and sing "Take it all bitch, the whole fcukin' thing"...

What mushrooms you chomping there mate?

...sideways nod to the classics is all.


EG, we're just going to have to disagree on so called "tapping up/poaching" as used in this context. I don't believe it exists -and even if it did it's doubtful there's anything indictable involved. I've said before on this board and OWC that I believe the modalitys involved in playing international football for anyone are far less formal than many imagine.

Finally, I have to pull you up on your assertion that this AI team ( I've already stated I'm not in favour of it) call only comes when ye're doing well and or we are not.
Previous to Dermot Aherns trolling, the most column inches awarded to this topic happened roundabout a time when NI had just crossed 1000 minutes without a goal. I believe it was Derek Dougan who raised the issue at the time -and I'm hardly exaggerating in pointing out he was roundly savaged for such "treachery."

[geysir]

No.

I find it mildly amusing that Ahern goes about "uniting" Ireland, by annoying many of the people he seeks to be "united" with.

There'll be a so called "united" Ireland when the people of Northern Ireland register that desire at the ballot box, and it is endorsed by the people of the Republic of Ireland.

Then there might be an All Ireland team.

The supporters of the Northern Ireland football team are not interested in merging with the ROI team - or any other team(s).

If Ahern thinks that disenfranchising people he wishes to be "united" with is the best way to go about "uniting" Ireland, good luck to him. Maybe the penny will drop for him some day.
What's the reason for the contrasting views between here and the Northern Ireland forum ?

Aherne is not concerned with the perceived hurts of football fans in the North.
Aherne's political constituency is in the South, his remarks IMO should be understood with that in mind. No more or less than some Unionist politician feeding their contituencies fears about the slippery slope theory. Aherne is concerned with re-election and FF back in power. No longer is it a feature that Haughey and his like go on stage once a year and weep tears about a United Ireland, so Aherne IHO picks on something benign, something that works in related areas. That's the FF baggage, shedding croc tears for an aspiration of a united Ireland that somehow satisfies their political base.
Sincerity of opinion is not an issue.

[co. down green]

Ealing

Thanks for your in-depth analysis into what makes us ‘northern’?? based Ireland fans tick.

To be honest with you, your generalisations have a whiff of prejudice about them.

Personally, I don’t differentiate between Ireland fans from different parts of the country, it’s the camaraderie, passion and togetherness that has always impressed me when travelling home and away.

I’ve been following Ireland for 23 years and do you honestly believe that I have invested all that time and money to make a political statement or to annoy n.i’s small fan base – grow up, man.

I doubt if many hate your team, most Nationalists in the North just don't have any connection with the team and their symbols. The English Flag and Anthem, the Sash and the Dambusters have little meaning to your average sports fan. The team is pretty much irrelevant to kids from nationalist areas who are more interested in Robbie Keane and Shay Given.

Regarding eligibility, its clear that ‘tapping up’ up is a figment of your supporters ‘paranoid & suspicious’ (your words) imagination.

There is nothing more natural than a young Irish pro wanting to represent Ireland at the international stage in Lansdowne Road or Croke Park, and growing numbers of young players from the North of the Island are choosing this route, especially since the FAI were forced to drop the ‘unwritten’ 1950’s understanding about eligibility.

As I have mentioned on a previous thread, it is unfair for the IFA to use its resources on players who clearly don’t have any affinity to the team, so the solution would be for the FAI’s National Development Plan to be extended to the main catchments in the North, to cater for the growing number of players choosing the international path via Dublin. If the FAI has structures in place from schoolboy level the burden will be reduced on the IFA.

Perhaps Mr. Ahern could channel some of the 1.2 Billion promised to the North, into implementing the extension of the FAI’s youth development schemes in Belfast & Derry.

As regards the atmosphere at Windsor Park November 93, from were I was sitting in the Railway Stand that night, the atmosphere was vicious, Racist & sectarian. I have never encountered anything like it before, or since.

Almost worse than the sectarian singing was the constant racist chants directed at Paul McGrath & Terry Phelan, and i'm not sure what Alan McLaughlin thought about being called ' a Fenian lover'.

A number of Irish players have highlighted the game as the most poisonous atmosphere of their careers.

But I suppose every event has its lighter moments and to quote from the Paul McGrath’s ‘The Black Pearl Of Inchicore’

“The funniest thing on the way out (of Windsor Park) was the bloke giving Niall Quinn stick on the steps of the coach as we got ready to go away. He was telling Niall to “F**k off back to Dublin, you Fenian basta*d”. Niall, cool as a cucumber, just turned to him and said, “I’ll send you a postcard from America pal.” I nearly wet myself with laughter”.

[lopez]

I'll leave it to other posters to determine who's "talking balls" here.

Talking b*llocks as in making up fibs about players being 'tapped' up.

Trouble is with bigots like you is that a NI fan/player who follows/plays for Ireland is gloryhunting or making a political statement/tapped up or a raving chucky. As for the sh*te about eligibility, well I'm not a betting man, but I'd put money on us continuing to pick players from the 32 counties and their offspring who want to play for us. In fact, FIFA have if anything made things easier. Before, players could only choose one association if they had played more than 45 minutes. Now its age, dual nationality, youth teams, friendlies. Changing the rules here means changing them everywhere, or are you too stoooopid to figure that one out.

Oh and by the way, if its good enough for you to pick up any naturalised so - and - so living in Battersea for the past 5 years, then I think its good enough for us to facilitate any Irishman who wants to play for us, whatever his motives.

Neither do I know where the term "Beggar" comes from, but I have to say, if that's the worst thing I'm ever called in life, I'll be happy enough.

LOL. It's something Bernard Manning would come out with. Bet you use the T word in closed circles too. Actually the first time I saw 'beggar' was in that well respected fanzine 'The Blues Brothers' (Linfield, Rangers, Chelsea: Issue 13 page 13 has it being used by a German no less), of whom the editor is known amongst some of the lesser inteligentsia on ourweeminds. It was used in reference to Celtic (beggars, charity club, gedditt!!!). Of course how it came to refer to us is really puzzling.

good point Lopez, the enmity from their fans seems to be about more than football, hence the terms for the Republic, "Evil Empire", the "Dark Side", "Enemy territory"...and they wonder why kids from Nationalist backgrounds opt for the Republic.....

For some of the people on ourweeminds, of which thanks to PG finding his attempt at emulating Yeats, we can include EG in that category, the hostility towards us is a political bigotry (tinged no doubt amongst some with religious bigotry) towards all things Irish nationalist or Republican. I used to like ourweeminds. It was a good laugh. But too much of it depresses me now, more because of the paranoia than what is actually written of us (EG provides plenty above), and the fact that I still can't reciprocate the feeling of euphoria when NI lose. It's like another former good entertainment website of mine, **********.org. Basically if you replace the Zionist Occupational Government with the FAI and replace Jews with everyone from the Irish News to Uncle Gerry, you get the drift of what it can be summed up as.

[gspain]

The FAI have a duty to ensure the best available players are available to our national team manager. They are still well within FIFA rules and guidelines. We have aiden McGeady and Jamie McCarthy declaring for us now too so it is hardly a nationalist thing. Anyway the last time somebody from a nationalist background born in Northenr Ireland playe dfor the Republic was in 1946 so maybe it is a bit overblown here.

I was at the 93 game and the 88 and 94 games at Windsor too. It was blown totally out of proportion here. There were certainly racist and sectarian comments and chants from a minority of neanderthals in the home support but I certainly never felt in any danger. I think the thing that shocked many down here was the intensity of the desire of the NI players/fans to stop us from qualifying eventhough it meant nothing to them. The rivalry was very much one way prior to that as just about everybody down here supported NI in the 82 & 86 world cups.

I hadn't been to a NI home game at Windsor since Nov 94 until I went back to Azerbaijan in 2005 and Spain in 2006. The support is now totally non sectarian and just very noisy and very passionate. The neanderthals from 93 and probably supporting England now which would have been unheard of in 93.

Those in favour of an all Irekand team might want to consider how they'd feel if a single team for these islands was proposed by an English minister. I think better players and qualifying for world cups would be the last thing on your mind.

Personally I'd only be in favour of an All Ireland football team if it had the consent of the NI football fraternity (and ours of course). I don't see it happening. The only possibility otherwise would be if FIFA tried to force a single UK team (can't see this happening either as the separate teams are written into the rules since the home nations bailed FIFA out in the 40's).

[tetsujin1979]

We have aiden McGeady and Jamie McCarthy declaring for us now too so it is hardly a nationalist thing.

Slightly off topic, why isn't Jim O'Brien being mentioned in the same breath as McCarthy and McGeady? Similar player (promising young Scottish midfielder) and declared for us, but doesn't seem to get the same press time.

[lopez]

I was at the 93 game and the 88 and 94 games at Windsor too. It was blown totally out of proportion here...

..There were certainly racist and sectarian comments and chants from a minority of neanderthals in the home support but I certainly never felt in any danger...

On the one hand you say it was 'blown totally out of proportion' and on the other you confirm what everybody else has said. You didn't feel in danger perhaps because you were in the official allocation and didn't display any colours. Did you wear overtly an Ireland shirt or wave a tricolour, something that you might consider doing at most other venues you've seen Ireland play?

I wasn't at that game because I was let down by someone re a ticket. I was at the more 'peacefull' games of 1988 and 1994 and the sectarianism didn't come from a handful of neanderthals, but was everywhere. No I didn't feel in danger because I wasn't stupid enough to give a reason to suggest I was an Ireland fan, which included keeping my mouth shut for the four goals scored. At the first game the police (if you could describe them as such) refused to take away some sectarian care in the comunity case that in any other part of what this statelet likes to describe itself as part of, would have been knicked on the spot (at Wembley in 1985 one fan was arrested by the Met for waving a rangers scarve). At the second, the marked decrease in sectarianism as the match passed coincided with the 'hangers-on' f*cking off to support England in the pub, as the goals against rose.

I've been back since and yes the atmosphere is different. But Azerbaijan and Spain are not us. The real test will be the next match with us. I fear that things, especially if it's a friendly, will be worse than before, simply because Nationalists/Republicans will not be put off from attending the game, as they were in the 80s and 90s. I predict a riot!

[gspain]

On the one hand you say it was 'blown totally out of proportion' and on the other you confirm what everybody else has said. You didn't feel in danger perhaps because you were in the official allocation and didn't display any colours. Did you wear overtly an Ireland shirt or wave a tricolour, something that you might consider doing at most other venues you've seen Ireland play?

I wasn't at that game because I was let down by someone re a ticket. I was at the more 'peacefull' games of 1988 and 1994 and the sectarianism didn't come from a handful of neanderthals, but was everywhere. No I didn't feel in danger because I wasn't stupid enough to give a reason to suggest I was an Ireland fan, which included keeping my mouth shut for the four goals scored. At the first game the police (if you could describe them as such) refused to take away some sectarian care in the comunity case that in any other part of what this statelet likes to describe itself as part of, would have been knicked on the spot (at Wembley in 1985 one fan was arrested by the Met for waving a rangers scarve). At the second, the marked decrease in sectarianism as the match passed coincided with the 'hangers-on' f*cking off to support England in the pub, as the goals against rose.

I've been back since and yes the atmosphere is different. But Azerbaijan and Spain are not us. The real test will be the next match with us. I fear that things, especially if it's a friendly, will be worse than before, simply because Nationalists/Republicans will not be put off from attending the game, as they were in the 80s and 90s. I predict a riot!

I wasn't in the official allocation at any of the games. I still have 2 unused complimentaries from the 1988 official allocation but had home tickets in the North Stand for all 3 games. I literally couldn't give them away the day before the game in Limerick or Galway.

I didn't wave a tricolour or visibly wear colours but I did celebrate our goals and Tony Cascarino's "goal" (it was further over the line than Hurst's) in 88.
I was told "sit down you Fenian barsteward" in 88 but the guy was in his 60's and his mate was totally horrified. That was in the first 5 minutes and nothing after that.

It was definitely a minority in each case. In 93 I was in my seat well over an hour before kickoff and had the San Marino v England game on the radio. I was giving updates to all around me up until half time. A group of neanderthals did come in 5 minutes before kickoff in front of us and the atmosphere changed completely. Sure I had an "Oh S&*t" moment after THAT goal when I realised I was the only person on the lower deck of the North Stand jumping around like a demented lemming. However the cheerleader of the racist and sectarian chanting turned to me and asked "what's the score in Seville".

Frankly I've heard a lot worse at football - I was a neutral at Millwall v Liverpool in 1989 at the Old Den on the old open terrace and that was really scary. The referee rode Millwall and eventhoguh I was cheering madly for them at the end I was really intimidated and frightened for a while as i fel;t I stood out not having 3 scars on my face and 5 visible tattoos. The racism that night was unreal despite quite a few blacks on the home team.

I brought a friend (a casual Leeds fan) to Chelsea v Leeds in 1991 in the old West Stand. Probably my worse experience at football was at Southend v Readign to decide 12th place in the old 3rd division. Reading scored a late and undeserved equaliser 4 minutes from time in a dreadful game and I rose from my sleep in the main stand to kind of pretend top celebrate in deference to my female companion who actually cared. She got hit. We suffered 2 minutes of abuse that was really scarcy until Southend got the winner.

In summary yes there was definitely racist and sectarian abuse. Yes the atmosphere was intimidating. It was still a minority. It was blown totally out of proportion. It did not merit a Dail debate. Frankly I felt cheated as I came back to work on Thursday afternoon elated we'd qualified for the world cup and all everybody wanted to talk about was the atmosphere and how I got out alive.

I also attended othe rInternationals at windsor around the time. There was some sectarian chanting then too but again it was a minority. It wasn't pleasant. It wasn't right but it certainly was a minority.

Would it be different now? That's the real test. Sadly that goes both ways though. I was really really proud that NI fans could sit in the home support at Lansdowne and there wasn't a comment out of place. I'm not sure they could now.