Public v Private Sector Debate

[rebs23]

What, Microsoft and IBM can't afford it? They're richer than Ireland.

What do you think would happen if they were forced to provide such pension schemes? They would up and leave.
And while we're at it why is it an employers responsibility to provide for people when they retire, surely some of the reposnsibility rests with employees?
Am I really expecting someone else to provide an income for me when I retire? No thanks, wouldn't trust that to anyone but myself.

[Dodge]

The last paragraph of that article is among the poorest written I've ever read (sic). Imagine using a phrase, and then saying "that is a term used..."

[rebs23]

Anyway, its very easy to work in the civil service. If you think the package is better, apply for a job. If you've half a brain you'll get it ahead of all the "dossers" apparently.

If you want to work in the public service you can. If you don't want to, don't complain about the package it offers.

That one is quite hilarious!
Loads of Civil Service work available where I live. All those gov departments clustered around Cork that I never knew about. Decentralisation must be working and have they done away with the Irish Language requirements as well so all those new Irish can now start applying? oh and is there now open recruitment for the Civil Service so us outsiders in the Private Sector can start applying for all positions that were only available internally?

[Dodge]

That one is quite hilarious!
Loads of Civil Service work available where I live. All those gov departments clustered around Cork that I never knew about. Decentralisation must be working and have they done away with the Irish Language requirements as well so all those new Irish can now start applying? oh and is there now open recruitment for the Civil Service so us outsiders in the Private Sector can start applying for all positions that were only available internally?

Plenty of government departments/offices in Cork (garda/foreign affairs/education/social welfare/justice/customs and thats just the departments I've worked in/have friends working in)

Absolutely No irish language requirement and hasn't been for decades.

Open recruitment for practically all grades in civil/public service including all professional grades.

Any other myths you want me to debunk?

[Macy]

Plenty of government departments/offices in Cork (garda/foreign affairs/education/social welfare/justice/customs and thats just the departments I've worked in/have friends working in)

Sure most civil and public servants are outside Dublin and around the country - county council workers, social welfare offices, FAS Offices and Training Centres, Gardai and support staff, teachers, plc's, colleges, health services,Teagasc, Coillte, BIM, Bord Na Mona, ESB, etc etc. It's one of the great decentralisation myths taken up by anti-Dublin and/or anti public sector idiots.

[Lim till i die]

It's one of the great decentralisation myths taken up by anti-Dublin and/or anti public sector idiots.

Dublin being Ridden Rock Solid by Cork??

[Macy]

Dublin being Ridden Rock Solid by Cork??

And the rest of them. Over decentralisation it's definitely Dublin Civil Servants being RRS by the country comrades (aided and abetted by their leadership).

[NeilMcD]

That one is quite hilarious!
Loads of Civil Service work available where I live. All those gov departments clustered around Cork that I never knew about. Decentralisation must be working and have they done away with the Irish Language requirements as well so all those new Irish can now start applying? oh and is there now open recruitment for the Civil Service so us outsiders in the Private Sector can start applying for all positions that were only available internally?

As Bjork says its all so quiet shhhhh.

[rebs23]

http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/attached...pAgreement.pdf
Page 118 on Towards 2016 and the requirements for more open recruitment in the civil service.
"For the Executive Officer the proportion of posts filled through open competition will remain at 50%"
Loads of other points in relation to the need for the reform of recruitment practices.
As for decentralisation, there is an over concentration of the civil service (gov depts) in Dublin. Nobody is seriously suggesting the decentralisation of other staff in the public sector. Not everybody who is in favour of decentralisation is anti dublin or anti public sector. Its about a fairer distribution of the public purse, decision making, decongestion of dublin, etc. IMO the continuing concentration of most of the civil service in Dublin is a subsidy to the Dublin economy. These jobs funded by the public purse should be more equally spread around the country. Its not an anti Dublin thing or an anti Public Sector thing and personally I'm not attacking public sector workers or Dublin.(some of my best friends are dubs and some are dub public sector workers)
To start name calling macy, because people support decentralisation is a bit sad and I referred to the Civil Service not Public Sector workers in the original post so I really don't know what point you're trying to make.
I'll take your point Dodge on the Irish Language requirement.

[Macy]

The 10,000 is made up of 7500 civil servants and 2500 public servants. 10,000 will do nothing for traffic in Dublin, and anyone who genuinely thinks the scattergun, incoherent mess that is decentralisation is a good thing for either the Public Service, tax payer, state as a whole or even the locations deserves any insults they get for not properly thinking it through as it stands . Decentralisation of power is one thing, moving a few jobs around is just a pointless relocation that is good for nobody except for a few landowners creaming it in on land sales, and construction companies creaming it in on 54 white elepants throughout the country.

[rebs23]

I completely agree the current decentralisation approach is an absolute sham that is unworkable. Less locations and fewer numbers to begin with could work though.

[BohsPartisan]

What do you think would happen if they were forced to provide such pension schemes? They would up and leave.
And while we're at it why is it an employers responsibility to provide for people when they retire, surely some of the reposnsibility rests with employees?
Am I really expecting someone else to provide an income for me when I retire? No thanks, wouldn't trust that to anyone but myself.

Who do you think funds the favourable tax conditions these companies get over here? Yes its YOU the taxpayer. We do them a favour by letting them operate here not supposedly visa versa. Anyway if they try to leave, freeze their assets Chavez Style.

[pete]

Who do you think funds the favourable tax conditions these companies get over here? Yes its YOU the taxpayer. We do them a favour by letting them operate here not supposedly visa versa. Anyway if they try to leave, freeze their assets Chavez Style.

It is all very well for Public Sector workers with guaranteed job for life to suggest to increase Corporation Tax as they won't be the people to lose their job which highlights they Private v Public view of the economy.

I don't want to go off topic but we can hope for less dependency on Multinationals but for the foreseeable future they will continue to be a huge proportion of our economy.

Again without going onto another topic but Irish people tend to be a bit left leaning but is no desire for far left policies like Chavez in Ireland as proven by numerous local & national elections.

[osarusan]

Again without going onto another topic but Irish people tend to be a bit left leaning but is no desire for far left policies like Chavez in Ireland as proven by numerous local & national elections.

Might want to follow your own advice here Pete.

Moderator: If you want to debate this you need to link to facts. Pointless debating opinion.

[Dodge]

Was just thinking its about time we got rid of this left wing monopoly we have on government.

[BohsPartisan]

Was just thinking its about time we got rid of this left wing monopoly we have on government.

And the media. If it was up to them we'd be living in mud huts. MUD HUTS!!!

[rebs23]

Was just thinking its about time we got rid of this left wing monopoly we have on government.

I agree that socialist Bertie should go, bring back McDowell.... oh wait he's probably out to pasture like say Joe Higgins.

[NeilMcD]

I.

Again without going onto another topic but Irish people tend to be a bit left leaning but is no desire for far left policies like Chavez in Ireland as proven by numerous local & national elections.

How can you say that when they have voted a right wing government in for the last 10 years and some would argue since teh foundation of the state.

[onceahoop]

How can you say that when they have voted a right wing government in for the last 10 years and some would argue since teh foundation of the state.

Whatever about the PD's, I don't think Fianna Fail would consider themslves a right wing party.

[Dodge]

Whatever about the PD's, I don't think Fianna Fail would consider themslves a right wing party.

They probably wouldn't consider themselves liars and cheats but the reality is quite different on that front too...