Wheres the Transparency?

**Schumi** · 12/12/2006, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by Partizan

Well, we have a lot more going for us than UCD. You lot have been in the league over 20 years and your support base and marketability is just as bad as it was in 1985.

Your IAG don't seem to think so.

**DmanDmythDledge** · 12/12/2006, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by Partizan

Well, we have a lot more going for us than UCD. You lot have been in the league over 20 years and your support base and marketability is just as bad as it was in 1985. In the intervening decades, you have made absolutley no attempt whatsoever to branch out into the south east Dublin locality despite the exit of Rovers from the area. What saves you is that you are a university team, otherwise you would have gone the way of Dodo City a long time ago. Ourselves on the otherhand have long had a strong link with the South East in terms of fanbase and player catchment and have numerous strong links with schoolboy and junior leagues in the area.

Our link up with WIT now gives us the ability to attract and pay for the 3rd level education of promising youngsters. We received a tax compliance cert from the Revenue, cleared all our debts, UEFA badge coaches, Youth Academy to be set up after RSC renovation, received UEFA and Premier certificates and the RSC is due a major facelift (plans are available from Waterford City Council). After all that we scored one of the lowest in the League in off field criteria. How the hell is that? Am I aggrieved, damn right. I honestly think that the IAG/FAI has punished us for running ourselves properly. It looks like that PR has won over substance (whats actually on paper).

I'd love to see the break down of the points and see who went where.

Clearly you know nothing about UCD.

All those things that Waterford have UCD have also.

And we outscored you by miles.

**OneRedArmy** · 12/12/2006, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by McShels

Does anyone know what the off the field criteria were?

The reason I ask is that I am surprised that Shels scored so low even considering the various off the field problems they have had this season, Tolka is one of the better grounds in the country and there is a big schoolboy set up there as well.

I am not begrudging what Galway have achieved but I would like to see the breakdown of points scored in each criteria when you consider Galway got over 100 points more than Shels

Most clubs had a team of people or a committee working on the presentations and getting the structures in place.

Your club is run largely by one man who would appear to have spent most of the last year sitting in his solicitors waiting room.

Go figure.

**Poor Student** · 12/12/2006, 12:23 PM

Well, we have a lot more going for us than UCD. You lot have been in the league over 20 years and your support base and marketability is just as bad as it was in 1985.

What the hell are you on about? You've really bought this hook, line and sinker. I know it's in a bad state in the RSC but the main thing that attracted you to this sport is what goes on on that green thing called a pitch. Marketability is an abstract notion. It's not quantifiable. How are you so certain what it was then and what it is now and how it all matches up to yours, and after all that ask yourself why would that even determine league placings.

In the intervening decades, you have made absolutley no attempt whatsoever to branch out into the south east Dublin locality despite the exit of Rovers from the area. What saves you is that you are a university team, otherwise you would have gone the way of Dodo City a long time ago. Ourselves on the otherhand have long had a strong link with the South East in terms of fanbase and player catchment and have numerous strong links with schoolboy and junior leagues in the area.

How do you know what UCD do and do not do? I don't have a clue what Waterford are up to in these regards.

ur link up with WIT now gives us the ability to attract and pay for the 3rd level education of promising youngsters. We received a tax compliance cert from the Revenue, cleared all our debts, UEFA badge coaches, Youth Academy to be set up after RSC renovation, received UEFA and Premier certificates and the RSC is due a major facelift (plans are available from Waterford City Council).

And this gives you any significant edge over UCD in what way?

After all that we scored one of the lowest in the League in off field criteria. How the hell is that? Am I aggrieved, damn right. I honestly think that the IAG/FAI has punished us for running ourselves properly. It looks like that PR has won over substance (whats actually on paper).

I'd love to see the break down of the points and see who went where.

Everything you laud your club for is a recent development. You have a recent history of poor financial management and the ground developments, WIT link up are all new. Now that you've only just started to set out on the correct path you can't expect to be considered above clubs that have been doing it longer.

Partizan, since it emerged that your club appeared to be receiving some sort of clemency due to this bizarre process you embraced it with open arms and several times smugly posted how you met the off field criteria. Do you ever wonder what happened to you? You used to be a football fan.

**stann** · 12/12/2006, 1:26 PM

Originally Posted by Poor Student

How do you know what UCD do and do not do? I don't have a clue what Waterford are up to in these regards.

Not going to get into this one on either side, but must say that just on its own merits that's the poorest argument I've ever read on an internet forum!

Just because you know nothing about WUFC it must follow that a Blues fan can't know anything about UCD???
My despair for soccer in Waterford has now been replaced by despair for the future of our country!

**Poor Student** · 12/12/2006, 1:37 PM

Originally Posted by stann

Not going to get into this one on either side, but must say that just on its own merits that's the poorest argument I've ever read on an internet forum!

Just because you know nothing about WUFC it must follow that a Blues fan can't know anything about UCD???
My despair for soccer in Waterford has now been replaced by despair for the future of our country!

I've argued the same rubbish ad nauseum for a long time I can't be bothered to articulate the merits of UCD's existence in full every single time. The obvious implication is that as a dedicated UCD fan I'm not intimately familiar with the underage and local links that Waterford United have in the South East and I doubt that Partizan has any actual researched detailed information on UCD's links. Do you? Can anyone non-UCD fan come forward and do so?

**stann** · 12/12/2006, 1:59 PM

Originally Posted by stann

Not going to get into this one on either side

Thought that's what I said. You obviously are even if I'm not. As before, I despair. And please don't tell me you're a law student!

Originally Posted by Poor Student

I've argued the same rubbish ad nauseum for a long time I can't be bothered to articulate the merits of UCD's existence in full every single time.

Good, because as you seem blithely unaware, I'm not arguing against UCD's existence.

Originally Posted by Poor Student

The obvious implication is that as a dedicated UCD fan I'm not intimately familiar with the underage and local links that Waterford United have in the South East and I doubt that Partizan has any actual researched detailed information on UCD's links. Do you? Can anyone non-UCD fan come forward and do so?

No I don't, but I'm not claiming to. The point I'm having such an apparent hard time making is that whether Partizan has those facts or not, it's a p!ss-poor argument to make to say he can't have those facts simply because you don't have similar ones about Waterford! That doesn't follow. Please don't tell me you're studying logic!

**Poor Student** · 12/12/2006, 2:09 PM

Originally Posted by stann

No I don't, but I'm not claiming to. The point I'm having such an apparent hard time making is that whether Partizan has those facts or not, it's a p!ss-poor argument to make to say he can't have those facts simply because you don't have similar ones about Waterford! That doesn't follow. Please don't tell me you're studying logic!

I know from my situation as a similarly dedicated eL fan that I would have to do some serious investigation from where I'm sitting to actually make the assertions he does. His situation is mine geographically inverted. Judging by the way he lauds recent Waterford developments like the WIT link up, he doesn't even know the better known aspects of UCD's structures and I don't believe he has carried out that research. I shouldn't have to bother spelling this out as you know well what was implied but you just want to be smart.

**Poor Student** · 12/12/2006, 2:19 PM

Originally Posted by stann

Good, because as you seem blithely unaware, I'm not arguing against UCD's existence.

I know what you're up to. You didn't seem to get my point. When you're arguing the same argument ad infinitum you're not going to produce the exact same watertight perfectly articulated argument each time.

**stann** · 12/12/2006, 3:23 PM

Originally Posted by Poor Student

I know from my situation as a similarly dedicated eL fan that I would have to do some serious investigation from where I'm sitting to actually make the assertions he does. His situation is mine geographically inverted. Judging by the way he lauds recent Waterford developments like the WIT link up, he doesn't even know the better known aspects of UCD's structures and I don't believe he has carried out that research. I shouldn't have to bother spelling this out as you know well what was implied but you just want to be smart.

Tiring rapidly of this now. I was just making a point about the way you came to your conclusions, not whether those conclusion were correct. To be honest it's not that important of a one to have to keep repeating it to you plus you're getting a bit cranky, so, go on, you can say you were right if you like, I've other things to do...

Originally Posted by Poor Student

I know what you're up to. You didn't seem to get my point. When you're arguing the same argument ad infinitum you're not going to produce the exact same watertight perfectly articulated argument each time.

Before you go can you tell me then? And you might explain that last bit too. Usually when you argue the same argument ad infinitum it's because the other person doesn't or won't get it by the way, but if it's the same every time, how can it somehow not be the same every time? Go on, it is logic isn't it?!

**Poor Student** · 12/12/2006, 3:38 PM

Stann, you either knew what I meant and were being smart or you really didn't get what I was trying to say and now you understand.

For someone who is growing tired of this you seem to be finding new ways of prolonging it.

**stann** · 12/12/2006, 4:45 PM

First bit right, second bit wrong.

And I do, but one's gotta do something while waiting for the transparency to kick in...

**Poor Student** · 12/12/2006, 4:57 PM

Then we certainly shall argue ad infinitum.

**Dodge** · 12/12/2006, 5:19 PM

Pats got 364 for off the field activities. Ive seen the presentation and it was simple powerpoint job...

http://www.stpatsfc.com/news.php?id=1274

**Poor Student** · 12/12/2006, 5:20 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

Pats got 364 for off the field activities. Ive seen the presentation and it was simple powerpoint job...

http://www.stpatsfc.com/news.php?id=1274

Bet you wish you thought of "Right here, right now".

**Superhoops** · 12/12/2006, 6:03 PM

Originally Posted by McShels

Does anyone know what the off the field criteria were?

The reason I ask is that I am surprised that Shels scored so low even considering the various off the field problems they have had this season, Tolka is one of the better grounds in the country and there is a big schoolboy set up there as well.

Criteria explained in this document. See 4.1 on Page 15. The whole process is described on Pages 14-16.