Official Premiership Thread

**mypost** · 12/12/2006, 1:22 AM

Originally Posted by Poor Student

UCD are not unmarketable.

We're still newish to the league.

It's going to take some time for the club to cultivate and establish a fanbase. The club lacks the man power to market itself at the moment. There's no actual reason why the fanbase cannot be developed over time.

UCD have been in the league for 30-odd years, have won the cup, been in Europe, play in a vast sports campus, and have a couple of thousand students living around the ground. Why can't you build a fanbase or market your club?

If you were ground-hopping around the city like we are every year to find somewhere to play with your resources, you would have gone the same way as Home Farm long ago.

**Dave drummerboy** · 12/12/2006, 1:34 AM

First post here since i heard the news , i thought that it would be rovers and same 11 . Well done to galway . The clubs all agreed to this at start of the season and we new our last four years were not going to help we done very well in the off field stuff but not good enough to make up for last four years . We actually done better then shels shams and drogs and more . The only thing that is really bugging me is why have a ****ing playoff . That was said about 6 weeks before end of season when we were top of the league so why have one if it was not gonna count at all . Was it to try save rovers if needs be i dont know . Lot of people are angry that the fact galway came third and went up . Thay had one of the best off the field set ups and have done a bit better then us in the first div in the last few years . Best of luck to galway and hopefully we can come back stronger then ever and rip apart all the teams in the first and go up .

**mypost** · 12/12/2006, 2:19 AM

As I said before, no 2 clubs from the same county outside Dublin were going in, and as Drogheda had already taken the Louth spot, there was only one division left for Dundalk to go to. It happened.

**exiled_gufc_fan** · 12/12/2006, 6:19 AM

The Indo have published some of the scores that were leaked by the clubs.

Derry City

On The Field: 460. Off The Field: 370. Total: 830 (Premier Div))

Bohemians

On The Field: 420. Off The Field: 371. Total: 791 (Premier Div))

Shelbourne

On The Field: 493. Off The Field: 278. Total: 771 (Premier Div)

UCD

On The Field: 370. Off The Field: 374. Total: 744 (Premier Div)

Drogheda United

On The Field: 437. Off The Field: 300. Total: 737 (Premier Div)

Shamrock Rovers

On The Field: 380. Off The Field: 346. Total: 726 (Premier Div)

Sligo Rovers

On The Field: 340. Off The Field: 360. Total: 700 (Premier Div)

Bray Wanderers

On The Field: 333. Off The Field: 351. Total: 684 (Premier Div)

Galway

On The Field: 260. Off The Field: 389. Total: 649 (Premier Div)

Waterford

On The Field: 337. Off The Field: 295. Total: 632 (First Div)

Dundalk

On The Field: 247. Off The Field: 348. Total: 595 (First Div)

Cork City

On The Field: 460. Off The Field: N/A. (Premier Div)

Longford Town

On The Field: 430. Off The Field: N/A. (Premier Div)

St Patrick's Athletic

On The Field: 410. Off The Field: N/A. (Premier Div)

Mind you the journalist covering the story for them reminded everyone of his club allegiance!! Although I do agree with his view that scores should be published by the FAI.

**Dodge** · 12/12/2006, 7:06 AM

Does that mean Derry are this years champions?

Full points breakdown (i.e for each individual section) MUST be released

**Real ale Madrid** · 12/12/2006, 7:44 AM

[QUOTE=Frankfurt Hoop;589964]I can't see what all the fuss is about really. Dundalk signed their death warrant when they voted for the qualifying criteria. They just had far too many points to make up off the field.

QUOTE]

Can someone form Dundalk come on and shed some light on this. After ye beat Waterford to win the play-off ye celebrated as if ye had been promoted? To me these are not the actions of a team who signed their own death warrant at the start of the season? Loads of people throughout the thread have been saying tough luck to Dundalk � ye signed up for this in the first place � so b******s to ye now. Fine if they did � but did they know � did anyone know the real criteria for promotion to this fantastic new FAI league that�s going to sort out all our problems? They should not have even bothered showing up to the playoff against Waterford in my opinion because according to lots of people on this thread � they knew full well, having signed up for the process at the start � that it was pointless winning it anyway?

**Terry** · 12/12/2006, 7:54 AM

Originally Posted by exiled_gufc_fan

UCD

On The Field: 370. Off The Field: 374. Total: 744 (Premier Div)

Galway

On The Field: 260. Off The Field: 389. Total: 649 (Premier Div)

.

So, if these are correct, so far GUFC lead the way for off the feild with UCD coming a close 2nd ? Even there supporters must be shocked at this??

**tiktok** · 12/12/2006, 7:55 AM

Originally Posted by Dodge

Full points breakdown (i.e for each individual section) MUST be released

Agreed.

The FAI and IAG need to release the points breakdown and reveal how the off-field points totals were reached. If, at that stage, it is shown as being handled professionally, no-one can have any complaints. The longer that there is uncertainty, rumour and accusations of favouritism the longer this rubbish will drag on.

I know it's going back a year, but the criteria for a Premier Licence are set out (though they should be more stringently applied, they're still a mystery at times), and the 12 teams who perform best on the field while receiving a premier licence should form the Premier League.

But clubs (I assume) were aware of what they had to achieve to get the off-field points, Galway saw their opportunity and took it. Others didn't.

On a purely personal level, I'm delighted to see them up.

**pineapple stu** · 12/12/2006, 8:18 AM

Originally Posted by Terry

UCD coming a close 2nd ? Even there supporters must be shocked at this??

No. We always knew we were one of the best run clubs in the country. We just didn't expect to be rewarded because of it like Galway fans.

That figure is correct for UCD anyway, so overall, the figures appear good. Nice to see Shels getting a fairly low score. Waterford must have a fair few problems to iron out yet that they can only beat Shels by ten or so points.

Oh, and the detailed breakdown was never going to be released by the FAI. Too scared clubs would complain.

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

It is potentially good for the League as it is a crude, but valid, attempt at picking out those clubs that will benefit most from an injection of money from the centre and improve the standing of the league in general hopefully resulting in a better product and all the benefits that come from that.

But that completely goes against the idea of a sporting competition to favour some clubs!! If they're good enough, they'll come up to the Premier and thrive there in due course. If not, why the hell should they get a helping hand?

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Do you or don't you subscribe to the view that EL football is broken and if it is, how do you propose fixing it?

I do subscribe to the theory. However, this is not the solution, which you seem to have problems grasping. My solution would be to apply licencing competently and get all clubs well run and solvent. The league may well worsen in the short term, but in the long term, it'll end up with 22 viable members who don't go to the wall every few months and can build and go forward on solid foundations.

**incident** · 12/12/2006, 8:25 AM

Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid

Can someone form Dundalk come on and shed some light on this. After ye beat Waterford to win the play-off ye celebrated as if ye had been promoted? To me these are not the actions of a team who signed their own death warrant at the start of the season? Loads of people throughout the thread have been saying tough luck to Dundalk � ye signed up for this in the first place � so b******s to ye now. Fine if they did � but did they know � did anyone know the real criteria for promotion to this fantastic new FAI league that�s going to sort out all our problems? They should not have even bothered showing up to the playoff against Waterford in my opinion because according to lots of people on this thread � they knew full well, having signed up for the process at the start � that it was pointless winning it anyway?

Dundalk might have celebrated as though they'd got promoted - but if they thought that they were guaranteed a spot in the top flight then they were clearly mistaken.

Anyone who'd read the criteria (even the limited information that was made publically available) knew that this seasons results (including the playoff) would not ensure a place in the new Premier Division. Dundalk would've been aware of this just like every other club.

The only way that a club can really have any complaints is if the IAG haven't followed the published criteria, which is why the breakdown of figures should be made public.

**BrayUnknowns** · 12/12/2006, 8:43 AM

Originally Posted by Partizan

Can anyone tell me how UCD and Bray outscored us in the off field criteria. I'd love to see a breakdown of the points. Unless our presentation team ****ed up royaly during the presentation or something is amiss here.

Our situation (on the pitch)
League - 6th, 5th, 8th, 12th (Premier)

Cup Runners up in 2004

Off the pitch: New 1700 seater stand, new press facilities, toilets, offices, turnstiles, 2 all weather pitches, link up with WIT with the scholarship schemes. Link up with local junior and schoolboy leagues. These plans are not pie in the sky, they are written down on paper. The plans are on view in Waterford City Council offices.

Delaney told Club officials and fans including myself that we were safe. that would explain why the Managemnet Committee wrote this season off. However it seems that Galway and Bray made up ground on us for off pitch criteria. How is that and also Des Cahill stated on Radio 1 that we scored more points overall than Galway???

Dumbfounded.

Was there not a stage over the past 2 or 3 seasons, cant remember, that Waterford could not afford to pay there players ? meaning players left etc ?

Off the Pitch - We have already installed a new 1000 seated covered stand, plans and planning premission already granted for more work, new press facilities, new media hut, new hospitality hut, new toilets and new turnstiles all already built in the last year, Official link up with one of dublin's most successful schoolboy clubs - Joeys, massive sponsorship deal about to be signed off. They are not written on paper, they are already done. Serveral other plans in place to upgrange the Carlisle aswell.

Bray Wanderers
On The Field: 333. Off The Field: 351. Total: 684 (Premier Div)

Waterford
On The Field: 337. Off The Field: 295. Total: 632 (First Div)

On the field you were 3 points ahead of us, probably equavilient to a draw or a win, off the field your not even in the same division as us. If Waterford thought they were safe with off the field then worse gobshi*es them. The Carlise is by no means the best or nicest ground the league but the RSC is just shocking - 1 stand and the worst pitch in the premier last season is all it consists of.

**Calcio Jack** · 12/12/2006, 8:46 AM

A question for UCD supporters; UCD are well run and financially viable etc, now this may of been answered here before but could one of you explain how your finances operate. Do you receive any subsidies etc.Not trying to raise the old chestnut of UCD are run on taxpayers money etc...perhaps you are...but personally I've no issue with that as despite what a lot o people say her I think UCD do bring something to the League ie an opportunity for youngsters to get an education and play at a high level, rather than have them shipped of to UK clubs at 16 and come back a few years later.... sorry to be so long winded but as I say just curious.... finally despite all your scholarships etc bet Trinity beat you in this seasons David Faiers memorial match (ie the colours game) !!

**cavan_fan** · 12/12/2006, 8:57 AM

Whole thing seems a bit of a waste of time if the purpose was a radical overhaul of the league. In the end all the results and off field investigations have meant that Galway go up instead of Dundalk. It's obviously upsetting for Dundalk fans and great for Galway fans but is hardly going to make a huge change to the league.

Preumably the FAI felt that they wanted good long term prospects not just short term teams. But either they've measured it wrong or the 2 are the same thing. (I think theyve measured it worng, if you look at the scores mentioned above there aseems less variance in Off the Field than On the Field, which means that On Field will win out, not sure if that was their aim)

**OneRedArmy** · 12/12/2006, 9:07 AM

Also interesting, albeit totally unsurprising to note that the "Champions" failed so miserably in the off-the-field scoring.

To me that shows the process works! (although it doesn't exactly bode well for the future).

To Pineapple Stu, I'm fully behind "proper" implementation of Licensing (particularly given Derry were made a laughing stock in the 1st year by taking it seriously to the detriment of on-field spending) but I'm don't agree with spreading money around in an equal manner. That just perpetuates the current situation and offers no real incentive for growth. I also believe some way has to be found to weed the Ollie Byrne's out of football and giving poorly run clubs isn't the way forward.

Given UCD's high scoring in off-the-field criteria I'm surprised you aren't arguing for it to be based on this?

**Dodge** · 12/12/2006, 9:08 AM

Originally Posted by cavan_fan

Whole thing seems a bit of a waste of time if the purpose was a radical overhaul of the league. In the end all the results and off field investigations have meant that Galway go up instead of Dundalk. It's obviously upsetting for Dundalk fans and great for Galway fans but is hardly going to make a huge change to the league.

Particularly as Dundalk have acheived a premier license. How funny would it be if Galway are relegated next season and Dundalk promoted. Nothing to stop them coming up then...

**cavan_fan** · 12/12/2006, 9:09 AM

Originally Posted by Dodge

Particularly as Dundalk have acheived a premier license. How funny would it be if Galway are relegated next season and Dundalk promoted. Nothing to stop them coming up then...

Anyone know how much this Eircom League Idol cost?

**Dodge** · 12/12/2006, 9:15 AM

Interesting to note that despite all the pontificating from Rovers fans that Dundalk were a mess, that Dundalk actually scored higher in off the field points than Rovers did. Its only their playing record over the past 4 years that cost them.

I'm sure that'll console them.

**Magicme** · 12/12/2006, 9:15 AM

Originally Posted by City till I Die

But the fact is that Dundalk DID sign up to this league and knew exactly what thay were signing up for, and now when they know they didnt get in they start a debacle. The fact is if i was supporting Kilkenny or Monaghan (no disrespect to either club) and we were consigned to the First Division again i would know its because we signed to the agreement and have only ourselves to blame. It dosnt matter who i support my argument would be the same

We didnt sign up to it but we accepted the majority rule and worked our butts off to be rated highly in the off the field criteria. Unfortunately, our last 5 years on the pitch brought our overall score down considerably, but we are not crying or upset about it. We accept that our club are in a transition stage where the focus on the pitch will be on local based talent who have been coming up the ranks while off the pitch we are becoming much more professional in the running of the club, the facilities we provide and our big aim for next year is to bring the crowds in. We know it will be a struggle but we have broad backs.

As for Dundalk moaning, I appreciate they are ****ed off at not getting in but by screaming and crying at Galway for doing what was requested by the IAG/FAI in getting their club to perform on and off the pitch, they are showing themselves and the league up. I hope Gill is fined for his outbursts as any other team would be.

**passerrby** · 12/12/2006, 9:15 AM

have to feel sorry for both dundlak and waterford fans but not for the clubs as they when into this process with there eyes wide open best of luck to galway and the rovers have a good year, i still think the process is deeply flawed and just one further point if waterford win the first div and galway were to come bottom of the first would we be back to square one and would genisis have been a waste of time

**Macy** · 12/12/2006, 9:52 AM

It really can't have been a shock that Dundalk didn't make it - poor on field performance, and a last gasp effort to try and sort out the off the field criteria. Waterford should've known more than most not to believe a word out of Delaney's mouth, and it's hard to have sympathy for a club that appeared to treat this season on the pitch with disdain. However, if both clubs are genuinely getting their houses in order off the field, it'll only be good for them in the long run.

I really don't see the continued vitriol against UCD. It's clear that they were going to score well off the field if the criteria were properly enforced on tangible areas. Where they were in danger was if too much rating was given to intangibles like marketability - thank god there wasn't some hatchet job on nonsense like that. If people think UCD are there by default because other clubs are so poorly run, then the blame lies totally with the other clubs for being crap and the failure of the FAI to properly implement licensing that would force clubs to get their house in order. As with people criticising the inclusion of Bray, well it's clear that they can only be by judging based on Infrastructure which would only be part of the off field stuff, and even then the Carlisle itself isn't that bad - can hardly deduct points for on shore winds