Official Premiership Thread

**DotTV** · 12/12/2006, 3:28 PM

Well firstly going over the last few seasons Galway haven't been inferior to Dundalk and going on this season there was only a few points between both teams so they are pretty close.
I think Galway being in the Premier will benefit the league because they are a very marketable club.Things are going right of the pitch and there is a massive potential audience to plug into(80,000 in the city and up to 200,000 in the surrounding areas).
Galway have systems in place to tap into this.Football has become a business and with people like Nick Leeson behind the scene Galway are in a good position to maximise the potential of having a big Eircom league club on the west coast.

**cavan_fan** · 12/12/2006, 3:32 PM

Originally Posted by bholg

I was just trying to get an answer as to how this particular (galway/dk) decision benefits the league as a whole... still stumped.

It doesnt benefit the league any more than Dundalk in reality. The whole thing does however make it look like the FAI are running 'a whole new league'. You can tell it's new becasue we didnt bother with old fashioned things like promotion relegation to choose the clubs.

If they had wanted to be radical they could have done the following.

Have a 10 team Premier League.
Pick the best ten locations in the country for a club (with some weighting to places that already have a club). (possibly 2*Dublin, Cork, Galway, Derry, Louth, Athlone, Limerick, Wexford, Donegal)
Install a centrally appointed General Manager to each club and give each of them 10% of all funding available for the next five years.
Contract all players Centrally and hire them out to the clubs.
No promotion/relegation for 10 years.

Now this would not have been particularly fair or easy but at least it would have been real action. If they weren't going to do this dont see the point in p*ssing about with a pretend reorganisation.

**DotTV** · 12/12/2006, 3:37 PM

That would never work.Several clubs would cease to exist completely

**bholg** · 12/12/2006, 3:42 PM

Well, thats a reasonable answer no doubt about it but it doesent make it any easier to stomach. It would be great to see galway and western clubs expand, but at the unfair expense of anybody else? Dundalk has had big crowds and support for decades, addmitedly not so for the last few years, but there is a massive football tradition here and seeing our attendances multiply rapidly all season there is no doubt they were on course (if in the prem)for a return to full grounds etc. this is seriously damaging for prospects here. Ill resist a nick leeson quip.
so

**DotTV** · 12/12/2006, 3:54 PM

Originally Posted by bholg

Well, thats a reasonable answer no doubt about it but it doesent make it any easier to stomach. It would be great to see galway and western clubs expand, but at the unfair expense of anybody else? Dundalk has had big crowds and support for decades, addmitedly not so for the last few years, but there is a massive football tradition here and seeing our attendances multiply rapidly all season there is no doubt they were on course (if in the prem)for a return to full grounds etc. this is seriously damaging for prospects here. Ill resist a nick leeson quip.
so

Well as I said before, if he can bring down Barings Bank, he'd have no problem bringing down Galway Utd!

Anyway, of course it doesn't make it easier to stomach.It's a kick in the balls for Dundalk but there was always going to be some big losers.
Dundalk brought a great crowd with them to Terryland that made loads of noise and they'd be the pride of any team in the Eircom league but unfortunately for a variety of factors they missed out this year.I hope John Gill doesn't pack it in because Dundalk can get back up to the premier again next year.

**bigmac** · 12/12/2006, 4:01 PM

Originally Posted by cavan_fan

Now this would not have been particularly fair or easy but at least it would have been real action. If they weren't going to do this dont see the point in p*ssing about with a pretend reorganisation.

Excellent post (aside from suggesting a club in Wexford where none exists and leaving out Waterford

). A slight reorganisation like this means that within a year or two the status quo will return. It does not have the effect of reducing the number of Dublin teams, nor of increasing regional participation. Does it really improve the league? As one poster commented, if Galway get relegated next year at the expense of Waterford or Dundalk, then we're back to square one. Smacks of rearranging the deckchairs to be honest.

**bholg** · 12/12/2006, 4:14 PM

Makes it all the more exasperating really. getting seriously f*cked over for an essentially pointless endeavour like this 1. Hopefully we go up next year, but its still loosing out.

**pete** · 12/12/2006, 8:45 PM

Originally Posted by jebus

Since no-one has answered my own, and a lot of others question on this I'll ask again. What do people who say this think the alternative for clubs not saying yes to this was? I'll take Limerick as my first example (although I've already posted this point, no one responded to it).

They could have said No.

Saying they had no choice is like saying i should vote FF in the next election because they will win anyway. Cowardise to vote with opinion is no excuse.

**Dodge** · 12/12/2006, 9:11 PM

Originally Posted by pete

They could have said No.

Saying they had no choice is like saying i should vote FF in the next election because they will win anyway. Cowardise to vote with opinion is no excuse.

Don't be ridiculous Pete. If they vote no, they're not allowed in any league. They had no option

**pete** · 12/12/2006, 9:13 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

Don't be ridiculous Pete. If they vote no, they're not allowed in any league. They had no option

They could have voted no to the merger of the eL & FAI as while the procss may not have 100% completed by then everyone knew would be entry criteria to join.

**Dodge** · 12/12/2006, 9:16 PM

And everyone knew who was voting yes to it. Same scenario

**Paddyfield** · 12/12/2006, 9:17 PM

I just read the previous three hundred and twenty something PLUS posts and it's a bit of a blur.

CONCLUSION

Dundalk FC are really unlucky. They brought 400 fans to Terryland Park a few weeks ago and they beat us 3 times this season. When Tony Cousins took over, there were 400 at his first home game. At the end of the season, the FAI stated that Galway United had the largest average attendance in the First Division and also attracted two biggest 'gates' in the Division. John Gill was right when he said that the Play Off was a waste of time and asked who would've been responsible if a player was seriously injured as a result of playing in a meaningless game. The merits of the Play Off were discussed on Foot.ie for weeks before it happened. Dundalk has a an excellent history in the League of Ireland.

Waterford United have been relegated in the good old traditional manner. The accountability of the IAG is concrete as the head of the FAI, who is from Waterford, couldn't swing it for his hometown club. Waterford has a successful history in the League of Ireland.

Limerick FC is also a major story. More so than any other Club, they have massive competetion in the form of Munster Rugby. I was in Limerick today and there is evidence of rugby everywhere and LFC is a poor relation. Irish Footbal needs a Limerick club; Limerick is the fourth biggest city in Ireland and has a great history in the League of Ireland. [Please don't dispute the findings of the Central Statistics Office and yes, there are huge suberbs outside Limerick city boundry but that happens in most big towns and cities so don't go there]

POINTERS:

*Galway United performed better over the last five years than Dundalk.

*All Clubs signed up for the changes.

*Galway United knew that the only way that we could get in to the Premier League was to improve the off-the-field stuff and that's what we did. In theory, Monahgan United could have won the Premier Divison by ten points this year but they would be in ther First Divsion next season.

**Aaron** · 12/12/2006, 9:19 PM

*Galway United knew that the only way that we could get in to the Premier League was to improve the off-the-field stuff and that's what we did. In theory, Monahgan United could have won the Premier Divison by ten points this year but they would be in ther First Divsion next season.

Gotta remember on-field acheivments over the last four years is taken into account aswell.

**exiled_gufc_fan** · 12/12/2006, 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by exiled_gufc_fan

Can you point me in the direction of any of these reports? The one I read in The Irish Times was very careful to state exactly what the position of the play-off!

Lot's of silence on the question I asked. Interesting.

Hot air then?

**mypost** · 13/12/2006, 12:47 AM

Originally Posted by holidaysong

So we stay down due to our record over the past four seasons, when towards the end of these seasons with nothing left to play for we were fielding youth teams at times because we weren't told then that it would affect us now. We hadn't even signed up for the past four seasons criteria, we signed up for the past five which included our FAI Cup win in 2002 but that was botched due to typical FAI incompetence with the Kildare County not existing situation.

I'm surprised you haven't used the fact that you beat Galway by 20 points the year you went down, to justify why you should go up.

The decision to keep Dundalk where they are, was not unexpected and has been long forecast on this site for well over 6 months. You won a play-off which even you knew yourselves, would mean nothing. You could have won the league, and it still wouldn't have made any difference. Dundalk like everyone else, signed up to the FAI League earlier in the year, and knew what was required. It is useless crying about it now.

**Terry** · 13/12/2006, 7:43 AM

Originally Posted by City till I Die

Gotta remember on-field acheivments over the last four years is taken into account aswell.

ya, but they were completed already, what we were depending on was what we could do this year.

**oriel** · 13/12/2006, 12:53 PM

I never expected us to get an invite, that was always clear in my mind from the start of the season. We had too much on the field ground to make up from seasons 03 + 04.

What did surprise though was Galway 'leapfrogging' over us but having read a lot since, they did make up loads of points in the off field section, its only natural to be disappointed, but good luck to them, the decision was made.

Some other clubs can also count themselves extremely fortunate to have made it. A lot of this gives the impression the points awarded on the off field section were not done on to a consistent and fair level.

For example, Shamrock Rovers well publised financial irregularities last season, the awarding of a licence when clearly false information was given, no ground at the time of the IAG decsion, was all of this not taken into account ?

Bray Wanderers, too many items to list, surely the biggest winners in all of this, quite how they 'ticked' so many boxes is still a mystery.

UCD, were any points taken off for their obvious lack of support + geographical position ?

And finally Waterford, was their playing record any worse than Bray over the past 4 years (overall), a time spent all in the premier unlike Bray, also included a cup final appearance.

For what its worth, I dont see the point in Gill continuing to moan, he knew the score.

Anyway good luck to all who got there, apart from the increased prize money and a moderate increase in live tv games, i cant see how different the Premier Lge Season 2007 will be from any of the previous years.

See you all in 2008 , I`m off to have a chat with Tom the Gom.

**DmanDmythDledge** · 13/12/2006, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by oriel

UCD, were any points taken off for their obvious lack of support + geographical position ?

And finally Waterford, was their playing record any worse than Bray over the past 4 years (overall), a time spent all in the premier unlike Bray, also included a cup final appearance.

Ye it was in the criteria. It counted for 20% (100 points) for the off the field criteria.

Waterford had 4 points more than Bray for on the pitch score.

**pineapple stu** · 13/12/2006, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by oriel

UCD, were any points taken off for their obvious lack of support + geographical position ?

Attendances were marked in two groups, both out of 35 (figures are approximate here, but more or less right).

The club with the highest average got 35 points. For every 150 less, you got docked 1 point. So to compare UCD (600-ish) and Dundalk (1000-ish), we would be down about 3 points on you in that regard.

Next, attendances were weighted according to where you finished in the league on the basis that, if your attendances were the same as someone who finished much higher than you, you deserve credit for that. Top half of the Premier, bottom half of the Premier, top half of the First and bottom half of the First had multipliers of 1, 1.5, 2 and 2.5, and the same procedure as above applied. So we finished in the top half of the Premier - still 600. Dundalk finished top half of the first, so 2000. That's about ten points for Dundalk.

Overall, Dundalk (and Galway and Rovers) gained about 15 points on UCD in the attendances category.

UCD should have outscored Dundalk on the geography criterion (if there was one; I think it could have come under the general mish-mash-waffley part) as Dublin is much bigger than Dundalk, even allowing for five teams in Dublin and one in Dundalk (or two in Louth).

I have the whole points tally at home from the club if anyone wants it posted.

**NY Hoop** · 13/12/2006, 1:40 PM

Originally Posted by oriel

For example, Shamrock Rovers well publised financial irregularities last season, the awarding of a licence when clearly false information was given, no ground at the time of the IAG decsion, was all of this not taken into account ?

Yes it was.

BTW can the title of the thread be changed? It is not and never was the premiership(I hate that word).

KOH