Official Premiership Thread

**pineapple stu** · 12/12/2006, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by Trainee

I dont know is how people think this process turned out to be a farce.

It hasn't turned into a farce. It was a farce all along, since the day it was announced. Most sensible people on this board said so.

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

I don't agree with spreading money around in an equal manner. That just perpetuates the current situation and offers no real incentive for growth.

I don't agree with spreading money around in an equal manner either - I never said I did. I do, however, want to see money spread around in a more equal manner. Different thing altogether. If you have a situation where there's a huge gap between coming first, second and third, for example (about E300,000 next year), some clubs are going to spend based on finishing first, won't manage it and be stuck for money. Alternatively, they'll get a huge cash injection one year, add it to their budget the next, come third and suddenly have to cut back again. It's why Leeds are where they are (overstretched to get into CL), why Shels are where they are, why Bradford are where they are and many others who went into administration chasing big money.

In any case, what's wrong with the current situation? You show me a league in Europe where there were two league titles going right down to the wire, where teams can go from relegation play-off to league runners up in a matter of seasons, where teams can go from the First Division to top half of the Premier in one year, etc. The eL is a superbly competitive league, and pooling most of the cash in the hands of a few teams could well harm that.

Originally Posted by Calcio Jack

A question for UCD supporters; UCD are well run and financially viable etc, now this may of been answered here before but could one of you explain how your finances operate. Do you receive any subsidies etc.

Fundraising, as with a lot of other clubs. Main things - Superleague, jersey sponsorship (worth more than you might think), soccer camps, golf outings, alumni dinners, donations, selling players, etc. It all adds up.

Originally Posted by tiktok

The problem they have is that anyone who is remotely interested in the League of Ireland will most likely have formed an affinity to another club by the time they reach college age, and those that don't have interest in the LoI will not be easily won over by Belfield (no offence UCD fans).

None taken - you're right. Which is why the club is giving up on the college to a large extent and focussing on the local area with soccer camps, links to local clubs and the likes. You have to get new fans at a young age, not at 17/18. When you're six or seven, it doesn't matter what the ground is like - going to a live football game is a thrill, especially if you're watching the same players who were coaching you earlier in the week. And then once you're hooked, we own you.

**NY Hoop** · 12/12/2006, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

But previous license problems had no bearing on this years application so your previous problems had nothing to do with your score.

Did clubs get a full breakdown or totals only?

Yes they did.

Clubs get a full breakdown if they ask for them. They should be released publically.

KOH

**holidaysong** · 12/12/2006, 12:55 PM

Yesterday was the worst day I have ever had to endure as a football fan. I could have accepted Rovers going up no bother but for Galway to go up and for us to stay down was sickening. It's even worse when I see how good we did on 'off the field matters'. So we stay down due to our record over the past four seasons, when towards the end of these seasons with nothing left to play for we were fielding youth teams at times because we weren't told then that it would affect us now. We hadn't even signed up for the past four seasons criteria, we signed up for the past five which included our FAI Cup win in 2002 but that was botched due to typical FAI incompetence with the Kildare County not existing situation. Nothing like this should be allowed to happen again. Keep football on the pitch!
P.S. - I wish to see Galway United crash and burn.

**stann** · 12/12/2006, 1:04 PM

Originally Posted by BrayUnknowns

Was there not a stage over the past 2 or 3 seasons, cant remember, that Waterford could not afford to pay there players ? meaning players left etc ?

No. This hoary old chestnut is trotted out here on a regular basis, and some people seem to have no interest in getting it right, for whatever reason. It has NEVER happened that we couldn't pay players. Some players left at the end of the last season because they were told that we couldn't pay them more, but that's quite different.

Originally Posted by BrayUnknowns

If Waterford thought they were safe with off the field then worse gobshi*es them. The Carlise is by no means the best or nicest ground the league but the RSC is just shocking - 1 stand and the worst pitch in the premier last season is all it consists of.

Well, it wasn't a beauty contest, but point taken, the powers that be seemingly thought they HAD done enough.
Look, bottom line is, now that Des Cahill's furk-up on radio yesterday has been put right and the figures are there for all to see, you won't find any Waterford fan complaining about this. Galway, and a couple of other sides we thought we might have done better than, beat us fair and square. We do feel let down, but not by the IAG.
Slightly ironic thing is under any other circumstances I'd like to see Galway in the Premier too.

Originally Posted by passerrby

and just one further point if waterford win the first div and galway were to come bottom of the first would we be back to square one and would genisis have been a waste of time

That would be hilarious though. Can't see it but fingers crossed...

**Dodge** · 12/12/2006, 1:10 PM

Originally Posted by NY Hoop

How many wind up orders were issued this season to clubs? Those clubs will be in the premier. You're deluded if you think clubs are spending money they dont have on players wages.

Didn't say otherwise, nor did I say Rovers shouldn't be in it.

Originally Posted by NY Hoop

Yes they did.

Clubs get a full breakdown if they ask for them. They should be released publically.

Thanks for that.

**pete** · 12/12/2006, 1:23 PM

Dundalk have no grounds to complain. They signed up mto process that rated clubs on & off the pitch & had one of their own on the IAG panel. The only queries would be the off the pitch ratings. I someone can remember how they break down would be able to judge...?

**bholg** · 12/12/2006, 1:38 PM

by way of explanation, I think its only natural to expect upset from Dundalk or 'whinging' as people have said above. There is no ill will to any clubs from the supporters here, just toward the typically ham fisted efforts of the FAI to "improve" the state of the domestic leagues. From our point of view(again):

Dundalk finished with higher off the field points than clubs allowed in to the premier.
Dundalk were UNQUESTIONABLY a better side this season than galway.
Travelling and home support were outstanding, probably also better than Galway.. (Galway supporters visiting oriel : 20 - 50, dundalk supporters in terryland 600-700. I know its only 2 fixtures but its a pretty large discrepancy given the clubs were both at the top of the table).

So even if dundalk signed up (choice or not), this system and supposed benefits have clearly to be questioned. how will the league benifit from a currently inferior side being promoted?? Is it good for the league that we are being shafted (again) this time due to a couple of years in the doldrums (given the history of the club)? clearly the club was on the rebound and this completly stifles progress (ability to get good new players, staff and fans total disillousionment etc etc.).More cash earned from the premier would allow clubs who actually won their way in to improve facilities and infrastructure quickly, not just keep the ones who already have a nice gaff sweet. Good luck to galway and all that but the whole thing benefits only them rather than the league as a whole. Clearly the fact that the club is 'well run' has not won them anything of late.
Dundalk should bounce back anyway despite all of this sh1te from the FAI and the majority if not all of the fans will return to oriel next season (though we have to be forgiven for being extremely ****ed off).

**bigmac** · 12/12/2006, 1:42 PM

Originally Posted by stann

Look, bottom line is, now that Des Cahill's furk-up on radio yesterday has been put right and the figures are there for all to see, you won't find any Waterford fan complaining about this.

Well put Stann, you can add my endorsement to that entire post.

**NY Hoop** · 12/12/2006, 2:00 PM

Originally Posted by bholg

by way of explanation, I think its only natural to expect upset from Dundalk or 'whinging' as people have said above. There is no ill will to any clubs from the supporters here, just toward the typically ham fisted efforts of the FAI to "improve" the state of the domestic leagues. From our point of view(again):

Dundalk finished with higher off the field points than clubs allowed in to the premier.
Dundalk were UNQUESTIONABLY a better side this season than galway.
Travelling and home support were outstanding, probably also better than Galway.. (Galway supporters visiting oriel : 20 - 50, dundalk supporters in terryland 600-700. I know its only 2 fixtures but its a pretty large discrepancy given the clubs were both at the top of the table).

As any Galway fan will tell confirm dundalk brought about a dozen fans to the first fixture in Terryland.

KOH

**jebus** · 12/12/2006, 2:10 PM

Gotta love the way Hooperatzi, NY Hoop (shock horror), and a few of the Galway lads focus on waiting for me to trip over my words to post on any point I've been making. There is no debate on any point I bring up, just the usual foot.ie claptrap of 'look he used a bad turn of phrase, that means every point he has made so far is wrong', a bit pathetic really.

Love the way NY Hoop's always insightful argument of 'you're a WUM' comes out in discussions in which he isn't involved, tell me NY Hoop are you not a WUM when the only post you have about anything I have said in this thread is to insult me? again it's a bit pathetic really

Oh and the argument of 'I'm only against the whole process of deciding football matters in an office because I hate Galway' doesn't really add up when a) this argument is made by people who's agreement to these results is based on their hatred for Dundalk, and b) the main criticism I have against Galway United is that their fans have been gloating about this for weeks on here.

So off you go lads, go through that with a fine tooth comb and see if I used the wrong word, or phrase anywhere in this and base your whole argument on that, call me bitter, resentful, a WUM, or whatever and paper over the cracks in this process with those insults

**DotTV** · 12/12/2006, 2:24 PM

Originally Posted by bholg

by way of explanation, I think its only natural to expect upset from Dundalk or 'whinging' as people have said above. There is no ill will to any clubs from the supporters here, just toward the typically ham fisted efforts of the FAI to "improve" the state of the domestic leagues. From our point of view(again):

Dundalk finished with higher off the field points than clubs allowed in to the premier.
Dundalk were UNQUESTIONABLY a better side this season than galway.
Travelling and home support were outstanding, probably also better than Galway.. (Galway supporters visiting oriel : 20 - 50, dundalk supporters in terryland 600-700. I know its only 2 fixtures but its a pretty large discrepancy given the clubs were both at the top of the table).

So even if dundalk signed up (choice or not), this system and supposed benefits have clearly to be questioned. how will the league benifit from a currently inferior side being promoted?? Is it good for the league that we are being shafted (again) this time due to a couple of years in the doldrums (given the history of the club)? clearly the club was on the rebound and this completly stifles progress (ability to get good new players, staff and fans total disillousionment etc etc.).More cash earned from the premier would allow clubs who actually won their way in to improve facilities and infrastructure quickly, not just keep the ones who already have a nice gaff sweet. Good luck to galway and all that but the whole thing benefits only them rather than the league as a whole. Clearly the fact that the club is 'well run' has not won them anything of late.
Dundalk should bounce back anyway despite all of this sh1te from the FAI and the majority if not all of the fans will return to oriel next season (though we have to be forgiven for being extremely ****ed off).

It wasn't that many.100 or 200 tops.
Also the decision wasn't based on last season, it was based on the last five years and United were ahead of Dundalk on the pitch and off the pitch over that time.
It's tough luck and a **** way for things to go but every club knew the consequences when they signed up to the league.

**thomas** · 12/12/2006, 2:28 PM

good to know that the clubs competing for the premier are arguing over whether they bring 12-50 fans on away trips.

**DotTV** · 12/12/2006, 2:32 PM

Well Dundalk had more than your lot in the last game in Terryland too!

**thomas** · 12/12/2006, 2:35 PM

tit for tit is it now?

**jebus** · 12/12/2006, 2:35 PM

Originally Posted by DotTV

It's tough luck and a **** way for things to go but every club knew the consequences when they signed up to the league.

Since no-one has answered my own, and a lot of others question on this I'll ask again. What do people who say this think the alternative for clubs not saying yes to this was? I'll take Limerick as my first example (although I've already posted this point, no one responded to it).

If Limerick FC had thrown a spanner in the works and voted No to this what do you think would have happened? Do you think this whole process wouldn't have gone ahead? Because I don't. Here's what would have happened though. Limerick FC would currently be hoping that the FAI, who would have had a grudge against the club, would pass through their re-application for a 1st division license. So what do you think would have happened when the FAI realised they could get their own back on Limerick? They would boot us right out of senior football in Ireland.

Now lets take Kilkenny as another example. Let's say they voted No on this, what do you think would happen if they finished bottom of the 1st Division next year and had to reapply to the grudge holding FAI for reapplication? Because I reckon the FAI would be on to the phone to Wexford telling them they can have Kilkenny's place faster than you think.

Furthermore what would have happened if Dundalk had said No to this? Even if the committee had kept their decision to keep them in the 1st Division for next season. What would have happened if they had gone out and won the 1st Division next year and applied for a Premier License? Again I believe the FAI would turn down their Premier License appeal for that year and punish them by keeping them in the 1st Division.

So give me a break when you say that every club had a resonable option in this vote, only the big clubs like Derry, Cork and Shelbourne probably could have turned around and said no and been assured of no punishment off of the FAI

**DotTV** · 12/12/2006, 2:39 PM

That's presuming that the FAI are so unprofessional as to hold a grudge.

Delaney's father was a chairman of Waterford.One of the other main decision makers has connections with Dundalk.Surely if either of these clubs had issues they would have at least listened to them and surely if clubs felt they were being "bullied" into a decision, the other clubs would have weighed in behind them with support to ensure the FAI would not have so much power.
But none of that happened and all clubs felt the league was a positive step forward. A couple of clubs were always going to feel hard done by but that's the way it goes.

**Dodge** · 12/12/2006, 2:43 PM

Are you trying to say the FAI are professional?

Release those figures and maybe we'll talk....

**jebus** · 12/12/2006, 2:46 PM

Originally Posted by DotTV

That's presuming that the FAI are so unprofessional as to hold a grudge.

Are you seriously asking me if I think the FAI is unprofessional?

Originally Posted by DoTV

Delaney's father was a chairman of Waterford.One of the other main decision makers has connections with Dundalk.Surely if either of these clubs had issues they would have at least listened to them and surely if clubs felt they were being "bullied" into a decision, the other clubs would have weighed in behind them with support to ensure the FAI would not have so much power.

Hasn't football history thought us that the big clubs couldn't give a toss about the smaller clubs? Most of the people on here that supported this process and decision are fans of clubs who were always going to be admitted into the Premier League anyway, whilst a lot of the fans of the clubs who could have been affected by it (bar Galway) were either sceptical, or hostile towards it. I think it says a lot about what backing any small club could have recieved from the bigger teams

**DotTV** · 12/12/2006, 2:53 PM

Originally Posted by jebus

Are you seriously asking me if I think the FAI is unprofessional?

I'm asking you are they so unprofessional that they would hold a grudge?
You obviously think they are.

Hasn't football history thought us that the big clubs couldn't give a toss about the smaller clubs? Most of the people on here that supported this process and decision are fans of clubs who were always going to be admitted into the Premier League anyway, whilst a lot of the fans of the clubs who could have been affected by it (bar Galway) were either sceptical, or hostile towards it. I think it says a lot about what backing any small club could have recieved from the bigger teams

It's not a matter of a difference between big clubs and small clubs.Are Bray and Longford bigger than Dundalk for example? My point is that the clubs would stand up for each other if the FAI were not allowing them to voice their concerns about the new league.
Of course this is all just hypothetical nonsense anyway.I haven't heard one club say they were pressured into this decision.
Dundalk came out the worst, tough ****.

**bholg** · 12/12/2006, 3:15 PM

Originally Posted by DotTV

It wasn't that many.100 or 200 tops.
Also the decision wasn't based on last season, it was based on the last five years and United were ahead of Dundalk on the pitch and off the pitch over that time.
It's tough luck and a **** way for things to go but every club knew the consequences when they signed up to the league.

sure, not disputed excpt. 4 years ... anyway you seem to miss the point of my question. The whole idea of this shake up is to improve the premier, how is promoting a currently inferior side, with at most a similar sized fan base going to benefit the league in general?? Our facilities and ground capacity (plenty of improvements in the pipeline) are all right. outside that surely the value (therefore marketability) of any league is inherent in the quality of football played, and standard of any club (all things considered) measureable only by sucess in the league in any given season. why 4 years?? why not 10??
i know, i know... we signed up (but the limerick lads point is a good 1). I was just trying to get an answer as to how this particular (galway/dk) decision benefits the league as a whole... still stumped.