Employing black people as toilet tenants is 'demeaning'

**Dodge** · 18/12/2006, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by pete

BTW the irish minimum wage is i think 3rd highest in the EU & increasing significantly again soon.

You say it like its a bad thing pete

**Macy** · 18/12/2006, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by pete

BTW the irish minimum wage is i think 3rd highest in the EU & increasing significantly again soon.

Yes, and there are agreed rates of pay for various trades. Just because a wage is above the minimum, doesn't mean it meets the agreed rate for a specific skill, which is what Labour were getting at. Labour and the Unions were successfully painted as racists by FF/PD and the right wing press when it was about maintaining standards for both Irish and non-Irish workers.

**pete** · 18/12/2006, 1:48 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

You say it like its a bad thing pete

I think you taking me up wrongly. Its often suggested that ist bad that people on the minimum wage when i just saying its a lot better then other countries. The US is only just over $5. I also approve of recent moves to take minimum wage earners out of the tax net. I think minimum wage should be just that 'a minimum' but no one should rely on that as a career wage.

**BohsPartisan** · 18/12/2006, 3:14 PM

Problem is in a lot of jobs the minimum is becoming the maximum.

**pete** · 18/12/2006, 3:24 PM

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

Problem is in a lot of jobs the minimum is becoming the maximum.

Example...?

**Macy** · 18/12/2006, 3:50 PM

Originally Posted by pete

Example...?

Canteen staff in our place. The temp staff pre-outsourcing were on equivalent to permenant staff, now they're being employed on minimum wage if they'll take the work. Also widespread in cleaning and retail. At the moment it's mainly effecting temp staff who have little rights, however Irish Ferries and Doyle Concrete have actively displaced permenent staff.

**pete** · 18/12/2006, 6:12 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

Canteen staff in our place. The temp staff pre-outsourcing were on equivalent to permenant staff, now they're being employed on minimum wage if they'll take the work...

Whats a fair wage for that work? I've no idea... Who decides?

**Student Mullet** · 18/12/2006, 9:27 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

That issue was not about immigration, it was about maintaining rates of pay for all workers be they immigrants or Irish. Well done for completely buying the FF spin there pete.

You're misrepresenting there a bit Macy, Pat Rabbitt definately said that our friends from the new EU countries should have to apply for a work permit.

The minimum wage is only really acceptable for students and the like. There's no way you could raise a family on it.

**Dodge** · 19/12/2006, 1:06 AM

Originally Posted by Student Mullet

You're misrepresenting there a bit Macy, Pat Rabbitt definately said that our friends from the new EU countries should have to apply for a work permit

Which was the case in every other EU country when it was expanded from 15

**GavinZac** · 19/12/2006, 9:27 AM

Originally Posted by Dodge

Which was the case in every other EU country when it was expanded from 15

as a temporary measure that violates the EU constitution they tried to pass, and the existing rules - freedom of movement and all that.

**Macy** · 19/12/2006, 9:57 AM

Originally Posted by Student Mullet

You're misrepresenting there a bit Macy, Pat Rabbitt definately said that our friends from the new EU countries should have to apply for a work permit.

And why did he say that? So that the State could easily confirm they are getting paid the agreed rates!

Originally Posted by pete

Whats a fair wage for that work? I've no idea... Who decides?

That's a different question, I was just giving an example of the race to the bottom, where the minimum wage was now becoming the maximum.

**GavinZac** · 19/12/2006, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Macy

That's a different question, I was just giving an example of the race to the bottom, where the minimum wage was now becoming the maximum.

fair wage is decided by the market.

**pete** · 19/12/2006, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by Student Mullet

The minimum wage is only really acceptable for students and the like. There's no way you could raise a family on it.

I agree. If you trying to raise a family on the minimum wage you in the wrong job. Minimum wage could be starting wage until get promotion or find something better.

It think with the next increase someone on minimum wage would earn close to 20k a year which while not brilliant better than most countries.

**Dodge** · 19/12/2006, 11:39 AM

Very simplistic view pete. What if its the only job you can get?

**pete** · 19/12/2006, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

What if its the only job you can get?

And your solution for that...?

Then clearly either satisfied with the job or not trying hard enough. Maybe people don't have great education but work hard & are rewarded for that...

**BohsPartisan** · 19/12/2006, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by pete

And your solution for that...?

Then clearly either satisfied with the job or not trying hard enough. Maybe people don't have great education but work hard & are rewarded for that...

Ah Life Liberty and Fruit of the Loom, er... the Pursuit of Happyness.

Yep Pete, Life is just like that new Will Smith Movie. There are opportunities aplenty for everyone. With a bit of hard work anyone can be the next J.P. McManus. The streets of Dublin are paved with gold. We're all either Declanders or Hico's.

Oh yeah and I'm the Utopian...

**pete** · 19/12/2006, 1:53 PM

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

Yep Pete, Life is just like that new Will Smith Movie. There are opportunities aplenty for everyone. With a bit of hard work anyone can be the next J.P. McManus.

To continue this debate we'd need to return to the capitaism v communism thread...

**Dodge** · 19/12/2006, 2:00 PM

So somebody on minumum wage is just "not trying hard enough"?

FFS Pete

**pete** · 19/12/2006, 2:04 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

So somebody on minumum wage is just "not trying hard enough"?

I was following up on the comment that minimum wage for students & part-time work. I said someone who was unhappy with their salary & trying to make a career on a minimum wage should be looking for better job i.e. with more pay.

No country on the planet can set a minimum wage at level need to raise a family at. Typically maybe first job is at minimum wage & then move onto to better position...

**Dodge** · 19/12/2006, 2:13 PM

Originally Posted by pete

I was following up on the comment that minimum wage for students & part-time work. I said someone who was unhappy with their salary & trying to make a career on a minimum wage should be looking for better job i.e. with more pay

But what if the only job they are EVER going to get pays minimum wage and more succintly whats your point Pete?