Due Process...my arse

**BohDiddley** · 14/12/2006, 3:57 PM

Originally Posted by G-Man

Nothing too sinister in that IMO...
they are a small minority in a large organisation. Everyone is being tarred with the one brush and I just dont agree with that.

You seem to take the position that the GAA can validly do nothing and somehow passively erase its history of bigotry and prejudice, and that a GAA official who doesn't act or speak spitefully towards football is a paragon of tolerance. But, given its history, the ban, Rule 42, the bullying in schools, and, in the present, the continued outbursts from 'the ranks', don't you think GAA's leaders should be actively trying to show goodwill towards other codes, rather than passively hoping that its disgraceful past will be forgotten?

There's an oft-spun PR line here that peddles the lie that those in the GAA who get up to this sort of nonsense are some lost old guard, like Japanese soldiers still fighting WWII in the jungle. But there is still evidence of the old anti 'English game' attitudes in the foot-dragging and inertia that happens whenever co-operation with football arises. It's not as if these people aren't being paid for facilities that otherwise would be empty.

I'm not an avid GAA (organization) watcher, but someone who seemed to know what they were talking about told me recently that, in the vote that overturned the farcical Rule 42, one third remained opposed. That's not a small minority. Let me know if I'm wrong about that.

**G-Man** · 15/12/2006, 7:39 AM

Didnt really want to comment anymore as this is bringing it too far off topic and dont want to be taking it away form the reall story of Shamrock Rovers ground.

I dont know if you were around during the time of the ban, and I dont know if you were bullied in school (neither of which I experienced) so maybe your dislike of the GAA stems further than most. But many here still harp on about the ban which ended over 30 years ago and wouldnt have seen for themselves. Yeah, the GAA made mistakes by and large, but cant we move on? Its like a sore chip on the shoulder. Sure if we bore grudges to everyhting that happened in the past no one would buy Audis, BMW's or Merc's because they come from Germany? Do you not think there is goodwill shown by the current leaders in the GAA? What do you want them to do, Sean Kelly was seen attending Irish international and extending best wishes to the FAI. If people here dont get over what happened years ago then there is no way forward, and I know it is deeply rooted in some, but others use it as a tool to lash into the GAA at any given oppertunity.

With regards to the voting on rule 42, there was 227 votes for, and 97 against. As far as I know, every northern Ireland county voted against it, and past presidents also get a vote so thats were the negative votes came from, along with a couple of others.

**bennocelt** · 15/12/2006, 7:51 AM

i know a lot of Ga heads, a few of them play for their county, and while they admit to liking "soccer", and will watch with me in the pub and chat about it, push them further.and they hate "soccer", they really do, and their whole outlook in life has is got to do with the Gaa, and the "commitment" that Ga players give,, blah blah blah
i had one fella telling me that Westlife was the greatest cause of all the hard work they did, entertain the fans.."just like Gaa players"!!!!

**gspain** · 15/12/2006, 8:03 AM

Only Cork and Monaghan in the Republic voted against opening Croke Park. All 6 NI counties did too. Interesting you mention the past presidents as they were the ones that tried to block the motion (and succeeded in the past)

Sean Kelly was as you say in no way a bigot and a superb ambassador for the GAA. The jury is out on the current incumbent.

I was very young when the ban was lifted. However certainly up until the mid 80's there would have been a lot of overt bigotry.

**G-Man** · 15/12/2006, 8:23 AM

Originally Posted by gspain

Only Cork and Monaghan in the Republic voted against opening Croke Park. All 6 NI counties did too. Interesting you mention the past presidents as they were the ones that tried to block the motion (and succeeded in the past)

Sean Kelly was as you say in no way a bigot and a superb ambassador for the GAA. The jury is out on the current incumbent.

I was very young when the ban was lifted. However certainly up until the mid 80's there would have been a lot of overt bigotry.

That thing where the past president got the final say over what went out for a vote was absolutely ridiculous. I couldnt believe that when it happened. Of the current lot in power (basically Nicky Brennan), I wouldnt really think he has any agenda with regards to soccer. Nicky Brennan is a kilkenny man who has a passion for hurling, and thats where his priority lie. While you may see him as a GAA man, people in the GAA see him as a hurling man and he would be against Gaelic football generally. His reaction to cancelling the Int Rules shows that. Thats why hurling conties were wary of Sean Kelly as he would be a Gaeilc football orientated man.

Like I said, I'm not here to preach holier than thou, I am just saying there are 2 sides o everything and that many can enjoy and participate in both. In my case, I am on our clubs first team in football, and also the first team in Gaeilc and a sub for the first team in hurling. Of the 15/16 on the football first squad, 12/13 play for the gaeilc club too. My father is chairman of the Gaelic club and president of the soccer club and owns the soccer pitch. He was a member of the first team after the ban was lifted and helped set up the club. He has been selector with u.21 county teams in gaelic and is on the wexford county board. And our club isnt unique. Where I went to school, an extremely succesful GAA school, everyone of us were also playing soccer at weekends. In my year alone, there was I think 4 players on my schools Gaelic team that played for Mick Wallaces youth team.

Basically all I'm trying to say is that there is tolerance to both sections, maybe for some reason more so from where I am, but there is no evidence of bigotry either way, there is no bullying and everyone is free to play what they want. And most do. I'm not here to change your mind, I know there are a lot here that hate the GAA, but you want open mindeness from certain Gaa heads, what about the other way around?

**BohDiddley** · 15/12/2006, 9:17 AM

Originally Posted by G-Man

I dont know if you were around during the time of the ban, and I dont know if you were bullied in school (neither of which I experienced)

You're in denial here. Are you trying to say the ban never happened, or if it did that it's irrelevant now? And are you seriously suggesting that, just because it didn't happen to you, having GAA-only schools throughout the education system didn't represent coercion?
As for the voting figures on Rule 42, you've qualified your 'tiny minority' delusion with the opinion that these inconvenient people don't matter anyway because they're northerners.
It seems to me that you will engage in any twist of self-deception that allows you to cling to the belief that the GAA is above reproach. The last blast of GAA atavism didn't come from some ghoul you'd rather leave buried in south Armagh. It came from Tipperary.

**bennocelt** · 15/12/2006, 9:38 AM

Originally Posted by G-Man

Like I said, I'm not here to preach holier than thou, I am just saying there are 2 sides o everything and that many can enjoy and participate in both. In my case, I am on our clubs first team in football, and also the first team in Gaeilc and a sub for the first team in hurling. Of the 15/16 on the football first squad, 12/13 play for the gaeilc club too. My father is chairman of the Gaelic club and president of the soccer club and owns the soccer pitch. He was a member of the first team after the ban was lifted and helped set up the club. He has been selector with u.21 county teams in gaelic and is on the wexford county board. And our club isnt unique. Where I went to school, an extremely succesful GAA school, everyone of us were also playing soccer at weekends. In my year alone, there was I think 4 players on my schools Gaelic team that played for Mick Wallaces youth team.

Basically all I'm trying to say is that there is tolerance to both sections, maybe for some reason more so from where I am, but there is no evidence of bigotry either way, there is no bullying and everyone is free to play what they want. And most do. I'm not here to change your mind, I know there are a lot here that hate the GAA, but you want open mindeness from certain Gaa heads, what about the other way around?

thats all very well, but i know many decent young football players who had "pressure" put on them by the Ga club and maybe their parents to give up playing and concentrate on gealic,
also i find it very amusing how the Ga always seem to have their training sessions on at exactly the same time as the football

**G-Man** · 15/12/2006, 2:40 PM

Originally Posted by BohDiddley

You're in denial here. Are you trying to say the ban never happened, or if it did that it's irrelevant now? And are you seriously suggesting that, just because it didn't happen to you, having GAA-only schools throughout the education system didn't represent coercion?
As for the voting figures on Rule 42, you've qualified your 'tiny minority' delusion with the opinion that these inconvenient people don't matter anyway because they're northerners.
It seems to me that you will engage in any twist of self-deception that allows you to cling to the belief that the GAA is above reproach. The last blast of GAA atavism didn't come from some ghoul you'd rather leave buried in south Armagh. It came from Tipperary.

Ah here, you're taking me up wrong altogether. The ban happened, all I'm saying is it happened over 30 years ago. The GAA isnt above reroach. Sure the papers lately have loads of stories of violence in games and Brennan came out with a statement the he wants this behaviour to stop. They arent perfect, far from it, but beating them over a rule abolished over 30 years ago isnt going to serve any purpose.

And I never said a tiny minority voted against opening Croke Park, but the majority against it were Northern counties and I dont want to open up further debate regarding there stance and political status. All I'll say is that many in hurling counties in the Republic were very agrieved with the northern counties stance as they wanted to stop Croke Park being opened up but yet wouldnt try promote hurling there.

And I already pointed out that it was someone from Tipperary who made the stupid comments about the FAI lately. And I think it was stupid and the GAA issued a directive that no one outside of those in Croke Park could comment on it as men like him are an embarrasment and create all this divide that can be clearly seen here.

You can take my comments any way you want, like i said, I'm trying to put forward an unbiased view. The GAA are far from perfect, I know that, but if you want bigotry to end you have to end it on both sides. The rules made regarding the ban and the grounds were made in very different times to these where there was a struggle to retain national sports. It took far too long to amend these however.

And bennocelts comment on training being on at the same time as football, I dont get. What football and whose training. If you mean football being shown on TV, well there is effectively at least one game shown on Sky sports every eving of the week, so any one doing any training is going to coincide with that. I have soccer training on at the same time as champions league games, but the club cant help that, its just the way it is.

**pete** · 16/12/2006, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by bennocelt

also i find it very amusing how the Ga always seem to have their training sessions on at exactly the same time as the football

I heard that GAA clubs so hard up for players in Dublin that kids teams playing mid week so as not to clash with football games at the weekend.

Apart from a good run in the 70s the dublin senior gaelic football team have won feck all. Easy to see why no GAA role models for dublin kids.