Article in Financial Times

[galwayhoop]

I am advocating the creation of a new Dublin-wide team, .

because obviously nothing happens outside dublin ever hear of Derry City or Cork City - are they from Dublin?? Shels arethe only Dublin side to challenge for the eL in recent seasons and in comparison to the success they have enjoyed their support is abysmall

or the rebuilding of an existing Eircom League team that with a concentrated effort could become powerful enough to compete in Europe or at the least within neighbouring countries.
.

have eL clubs not knocked NI and Scotish teams from European competitions in the not too distant past??

[Stuttgart88]

Very true about the practical reality, but maybe UEFA could see it actually being in their interest to accomodate a radical move.

Re-Bill's comment, yes, I accept that the provincial sides were already established in rugby, but does that really change anything?

Would eL fans ''accept'' some form of aggregated representative side? Who knows, but I recall when soccerc, one of the more dedicated eL fans on this forum being chuffed to bits when one of his team's players (Pat's player, can't remember the guy's name, Keith Foy springs to mind, but I don't think he was Pats ever) played for the Irish U20s in the UAE. Whilst I didn't care who played for who, the eL fans were all rooting for their own. It's curently the same with the UCD lads and Quigley & Dicker representing the U21s. By the same token, would these people not cheer on their own if a, e.g., Pats or UCD reared player, went on to play on a bigger stage, and a home based one at that?

Again, I just want to see Irish players learning to play in Ireland and earning a living in Ireland & then the national set up could hardly fail to benefit.

Some type of Kerry Packer type rethink may be what's required because right now, despite the tradition down the years, there's little of public interest when the only factor differentiating two of Dublin's bigger teams is that one is 500 yards west of the Drumcondra Road and one is 300 yards east. You know what I'm trying to say...

[irishfan86]

because obviously nothing happens outside dublin ever hear of Derry City or Cork City - are they from Dublin?? Shels arethe only Dublin side to challenge for the eL in recent seasons and in comparison to the success they have enjoyed their support is abysmall



have eL clubs not knocked NI and Scotish teams from European competitions in the not too distant past??

I have referenced Derry and Cork many times in my posts in this thread if you'd read them, but those areas simply do not have the population to support a team in a larger league.

I think a lot of the problems that occur with Dublin support is the fact that there are multiple teams fracturing an already small group of people willing to watch the EL. If the people of Dublin united to back one club for the aim of competing in Europe or in a regional league against top-class opposition, I think it could be a success.

I'm not talking about 80,000 seater Bertie Bowls, but filling a 25,000-35,000 stadium to me seems an attainable goal.

[nui-harp]

it's not as wild a theory as you may think.

if run the same as IRFU situation it could actually work. however it would mean a 'downgrade' if you want of the eL clubs but if you then regionalised the elite players to compete in some type of euro league you would get massive support IMO (a-la munster but dunno bout leinster ).

you could then use the eL as a semi-pro system like the rugby all ireland league where the elite players get full time contracts with the regional sides. it would also facilitate the 'regionalised academy' systems for elite players at underage levels and therefore not require them travelling overseas for full time pro careers.

when the rugby went fully pro most people thought we'd sink without trace and then last month we were 3rd in the world!! i don't have much time for the ruggers but they did get the professional system spot on for a small country.

the g14 wouldn't like it but then they could p*ss off and form their own 'hollywood league' which is what they want anyway!

it would require a major rethink but it may not be the total pie in the sky that it orginally sounds!

Personally I think the idea of provincial teams entering a european league is a great idea but what would happen when it comes to Ulster?? Dont really imagine 2 many people agreeing to it in the Irish League!

[Stuttgart88]

re-the Irish media & the intensity of its UK football coverage, it p1sses me off immensely. The FRONT page of the Irish Times on Monday had a colour caption advertising the MUFC vs Chelsea stalemate. As a self proclaimed footy nut, I had virtualy no interest in that game whatsoever. I agree with almost everything Karl Heinz Rumenigge has been saying. Chelsea are actually turning me off football, though I admit a fascination for Mourinho's ability to set out a team, but just as I do Martin O'Neill's or Gordon Strachan's.

I agree with irishfan's last post.

[Dodge]

Very true about the practical reality, but maybe UEFA could see it actually being in their interest to accomodate a radical move.

Re-Bill's comment, yes, I accept that the provincial sides were already established in rugby, but does that really change anything?

Would eL fans ''accept'' some form of aggregated representative side? Who knows, but I recall when soccerc, one of the more dedicated eL fans on this forum being chuffed to bits when one of his team's players (Pat's player, can't remember the guy's name, Keith Foy springs to mind, but I don't think he was Pats ever) played for the Irish U20s in the UAE. Whilst I didn't care who played for who, the eL fans were all rooting for their own. It's curently the same with the UCD lads and Quigley & Dicker representing the U21s. By the same token, would these people not cheer on their own if a, e.g., Pats or UCD reared player, went on to play on a bigger stage, and a home based one at that?

Some type of Kerry Packer type rethink may be what's required because right now, despite the tradition down the years, there's little of public interest when the only factor differentiating two of Dublin's bigger teams is that one is 500 yards west of the Drumcondra Road and one is 300 yards east. You know what I'm trying to say...

See my earlier post. The ONLY thing lacking in the league is money.

To answer your query on the representative sides. There's a world of difference between Keith Fahey being picked for his country than a provincial side picking 3/4 players from each club side and playing them every week in a different league of their own (therefore depriving the club of these players). I, and I suspect most other football fans, would not support any *******ised team. Oh and Keith Foy was at Pats for about two years. Came on as sub in the 2003 FAI Cup final.

Again, I just want to see Irish players learning to play in Ireland and earning a living in Ireland & then the national set up could hardly fail to benefit.

What do you think every single league fan wants? Exactly this. But as long as there's money...

[Stuttgart88]

Keith Fahey - that's who I was trying to think of!

I don't agree that money is the only ingredient missing. And anyway, isn't there a ''chicken & egg'' situation here? Investment would only come if the set up is changed to something more marketable, unless a real estate windfall is realised across the board, like Bohs.

I'm by no means hostile to the eL or its fans. I've frozen my nads off at almost every ground in the country over the years, but I just think another model would work better, and one that would still give the eL clubs a big role to play in football in Ireland, but just not the biggest role. Pat's would still retain its ''community club'' status.

I'm afraid I can't engage in a full on debate with you about this as I've only limited web access at the moment.

[Soper]

This idea actually makes me feel physically sick.

[Stuttgart88]

I, and I suspect most other football fans, would not support any *******ised team.

oh oh, back to that old chestnut '' what's a football fan?''. Most eL diehards maybe, but there are other ''dormant'' potential supporters out there. If there aren't I'm wasting my time & hopes.

[WeAreRovers]

oh oh, back to that old chestnut '' what's a football fan?''. Most eL diehards maybe, but there are other ''dormant'' potential supporters out there. If there aren't I'm wasting my time & hopes.

There aren't "dormant" fans out there, it's a myth. As Dodge and others have pointed out, Irish people will only watch winners and even then they get bored quickly.

Trying to appeal to the bandwagon, day-trippers is a Dublin Dons sized recipe for disaster. I've watched Leinster play in front of 4,000 and 40,000 in the last couple of years. Shels have played in front of similiar different sized crowds in the space of a week.

Bottom line is that eL fans are the only week-in-week-out fans in Ireland. We have, for want of a better phrase, an English attitude to supporting our teams - ie. we go all the time. And for that we get derision from barstoolers, bogballers and the media. How typically Irish is that?

KOH

[galwayhoop]

Personally I think the idea of provincial teams entering a european league is a great idea but what would happen when it comes to Ulster?? Dont really imagine 2 many people agreeing to it in the Irish League!

i only really used the analogy of the inter-pro's for example purposes. obvioulsy there is problems associated with ulster but it wouldn't necessarily have to be provincally based altho it is the easiest way to form representitive teams in this country as at least you maintain some remblence of historical demarcation.

when we were told that the league was being re-structured to create an 'elite' premier division and a less high standard Div 1 with a semi-pro conference System beneath it sounded good it theory but the fact is that all is going to happen is some clubs get promoted on other merits other than football and others relegated for the opposite. it is stupid IMO. in 5 years we will be back to where we are now anyhow so why bother. either go the whole hog or forget about it.

i know that every club has it's own history but in reality we have way too many teams competing for a limited market audience (in all honesty how many teams are in serious financial trouble?) - the inter-pro (or something along those lines) theory IMO is at least an option and i don't hear many others barr retaining the status quo or the odd eegit wanting us to buy an english team and return to the commonwealth!!.

[Real ale Madrid]

Stuttgart88 - do you support a football club of any description - premiership scottish league or anything?

[galwayhoop]

even Shels who are the league champs are in serious financial trouble and have a very small fan base.

[NY Hoop]

I think a lot of the problems that occur with Dublin support is the fact that there are multiple teams fracturing an already small group of people willing to watch the EL. If the people of Dublin united to back one club for the aim of competing in Europe or in a regional league against top-class opposition, I think it could be a success.

I'm not talking about 80,000 seater Bertie Bowls, but filling a 25,000-35,000 stadium to me seems an attainable goal.

Complete and utter garbage of the highest order. A few years ago some nutter wanted to merge hearts and hibs. You and him have something in common. You dont have a clue about what it means to be a football fan.

KOH

[Soper]

Also, the typical barstooler is so petty that they'd probably go out of their way to support Bulgaria United or whoever

[galwayhoop]

Complete and utter garbage of the highest order. A few years ago some nutter wanted to merge hearts and hibs.

in the end he just bought Hearts

[Wolfie]

I think a lot of the problems that occur with Dublin support is the fact that there are multiple teams fracturing an already small group of people willing to watch the EL. If the people of Dublin united to back one club for the aim of competing in Europe or in a regional league against top-class opposition, I think it could be a success.

That's a bit dismissive of the support (albeit small but dedicated) that current EL sides receive.

A rallying to a singular, hyped and artificially created Dublin team would tend to attract the dreaded Ole Ole - Give it a lash Jack brigade that have blighted most home internationals for 15 years.

[Stuttgart88]

Stuttgart88 - do you support a football club of any description - premiership scottish league or anything?

Yes, why do you ask?

I've answered this before. I used to go to Shamrock Rovers for years and if they were playing outide Dublin I'd go to UCD. During the boycott I was studying at UCD so I supported them. After college I played football at least twice a weekend (sometimes 3 times a w/e one year - Superleague, LSL and AUL) and continued to play LSL on Sundays for 8 yrs I think it was. During that time I stopped going to the eL regularly. What with training & playing, participation in live football became just too all consuming.

Also during this time my passion for the Irish team grew & grew and my main interest in football now is watching any Irish player that may contend for a place in that team. I don't know why but it's what gets inside me the most. Club teams I can take or leave, but the national team means something a lot more to me.

I grew up supporting Arsenal & Celtic and still have a very keen interest in seeing both do well, but rarely lose sleep if they don't.

As a kid I dreamt that Johnny Giles would spot me as a talented young keeper and sign me for Rovers!

I moved to the UK in 1999 and rarely watch football live. It's appalling value for money, I don't feel like I belong & spending time with my family is far more important to me.

I'm by no means trying to state that I'm the oracle on all things Irish football related, but assuming there are others like me out there I don't think it's unreasonable to contend that there are big lessons to be learnt from the reconfiguration of Irish rugby. I accept that maybe it's merely the case that Irish people couldn't be arsed but I honestly believe that some form of change can lead to Irish players staying in Ireland to earn a good living out of the game.

I thought the Gabriele Marcotti article made sense and I deemed fit to try and relate it to what I think are the difficulties standing in the way of developing Irish players, that's why I posted it.

[hoops1]

Yes, why do you ask?

I've answered this before. I used to go to Shamrock Rovers for years and if they were playing outide Dublin I'd go to UCD. During the boycott I was studying at UCD so I supported them.

I stopped reading after that. How can anyone support 2 teams in the one league?

[NY Hoop]

Stuttgart as a dormant Rovers fan could we interest you in joining the SRFC Members Club? We have lots of english based members as well as from other European countries.

You know it makes sense as it's only £7 a week and it means you would be a part owner of the club.


KOH