Andy Reid's position

**hoops1** · 20/12/2006, 3:10 PM

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

Roy Keane is an example of a player with a fantastic football brain but not the most technically gifted.

Crazy comment Keane is massively gifted technically

Kingdom Hoop
Its a very valid point. Reid doesnt stand out. Hes mediocre
We are only aware of him because of him being Irish. Not because hes a great player.

**kingdom hoop** · 20/12/2006, 3:18 PM

Originally Posted by hoops1

Crazy comment Keane is massively gifted technically

depends what 'technical' means.. he'd be the first to admit he isnt massively skillful, but is massively methodical. the opposite to reid then

**hoops1** · 20/12/2006, 3:32 PM

Is Keane Technically good Kingdom Hoop?

**eirebhoy** · 20/12/2006, 3:36 PM

Originally Posted by hoops1

Crazy comment Keane is massively gifted technically

Fair enough then, replace "Roy Keane" with someone else but you can see the point. When I think of someone massively gifted technically I think of the likes of Totti, Kaka, Juninho, Pirlo, Alonso, Riquelme, etc. (no coincedence that they're all excellent set piece takers), not Roy Keane but anyway.

Reid doesnt stand out. Hes mediocre
We are only aware of him because of him being Irish.

I'm sure every premiership supporter is "aware" of him, they're just not going to see him as Charlton aren't on telly much. There's a reason Spurs paid about �5m for him and he seems to be showing that at Charlton.

**cavan_fan** · 20/12/2006, 3:36 PM

Originally Posted by tricky_colour

There are actually 8 Irish players in the top 100, which is as good as I can remember for a long time. Especially when you consider some of the players not there ie Duff, Given and Keane (our best 3 players?) and Carr

Not that I want this to be a weekly check but this week it's down to 6. Really we have 2 players doing really well (Doyle 10th, Finnan 15th) one doing well (Dunne 60th) and a few towards the bottom (Currently Kenny 78th, Kilbane 81st and Carsley 100th). I think O'Shea and Reid have dropped out. Assuming Given will move up as he plays more matches, would be interested to hear your predictions for how many we'll have in top 100 at end of season?

**ken foree** · 20/12/2006, 4:13 PM

wading in on the "technically gifted" debate here just to make a broader point - it's necessary to be a good two-footed midfielder in the modern era and i think that skill is really becoming more widespread in the english game, whereas s. american/continental teams seem to have valued this particular attribute for longer. paul scholes, terrifically gifted technically, is hopelessy one-footed. roy keane was likewise. certainly they can receive and play a ball with their weaker foot but they lack(ed) the balance of a "true" two-footed player, one that can dribble, cross, pass, and shoot very well with one foot and exceptionally with the other. i think robbie and duff might be the best for us in this department, unsurprisingly. zidane was probably the pinnacle in this regard in recent years.

**ken foree** · 20/12/2006, 4:22 PM

..and mcgeady, of course.

**kingdom hoop** · 20/12/2006, 4:33 PM

Originally Posted by hoops1

Kingdom Hoop
Its a very valid point. Reid doesnt stand out. Hes mediocre
We are only aware of him because of him being Irish. Not because hes a great player.

personally i follow the english game quite closely so i'm confident that i would be aware of him if he were english. as i said earlier i've heard of jenas, lennon and darren ambrose too for that matter.

of course that doesnt answer the mediocrity question, which is a matter of opinion given that he hasnt conclusively proven either way. what i'm sure of is that he has ability well beyond mediocre levels. the current charlton team is mediocre as a whole but reid in their performances over the last few months has stood head and shoulders above his comrades. is this because he is mediocre, or because the team around him is worse than mediocre? in which case i would like to know a benchmark for mediocrity - is it premiership mediocrity, international mediocrity, eircom league mediocrity? he is currently the best player at a side that are the ultimate mediocre premiership team, he has proven he is well above championship mediocrity from Forest, and IMO has played well on the international scene.

in terms of comparing him to competitors for an irish spot, i guess kilbane is too easy a target - when will kilbane ever stand out in a team? - not standing out would be my understanding of mediocre so surely reid given his charlton form is above mediocre and worthy of his place above kilbane who is destined for life long mediocrity in all he does. it isnt easy to judge reid considering he has never had more than a few months injury free, so the fact that he has shown a great eye for a pass, can score great goals is enough to lead me to state he is above premiership average and it follows that he is above irish average.

his negative points are that he gets injured frequently and, by extension, looks overweight.. those attributes do not define a player as mediocre, a player with little football talent only rises above mediocrity when, like keano, they make up for it with organisation, work-rate and commitment - mostly psychological characteristics that can be drilled into a player but without which the player wont make a name for himself. i could go on all day, my point is that a cultured player like andy should be embraced, and encouraged to add the extra bit to his game that will see him go from slightly above average to well above average, a work in progress in charlton's dogfight

**tricky_colour** · 21/12/2006, 12:31 AM

Originally Posted by cavan_fan

Not that I want this to be a weekly check but this week it's down to 6. Really we have 2 players doing really well (Doyle 10th, Finnan 15th) one doing well (Dunne 60th) and a few towards the bottom (Currently Kenny 78th, Kilbane 81st and Carsley 100th). I think O'Shea and Reid have dropped out. Assuming Given will move up as he plays more matches, would be interested to hear your predictions for how many we'll have in top 100 at end of season?

Hard to says as I don't know how the index is compiled, and what kind of time frame is used, and of course you can't predict injuries. If I had to put my mortgage on a player being in it it would be Finnan. Then probably Doyle if he keeps scoring. I think it is difficult for someone like Robbie Keane if he is rotated. O'Shea won't get back in if he is not starting. Dunne will probably be there. Carsley is on the slide but has been in the top 10 before. Kilbane may well be in. I think A. Reid might get back in especially if he gets a goal or two. I think Carr was in before he was injured maybe S. Reid also can't remember.
Given will probably get back in when he has played enough games. Hard to predict for goal keepers so I would say Kenny is 50/50 same goes for other players in the bottom half. It could be as low as 3 or as high as 11 so I will have to plump for 7.
It's a pity they don't show the top 200 becuase you don't know who is hovering on the fringes. I wonder where Geary is for example? But basically you have to be playing regularly to have a chance. Statistics are not everything but then again opinions can be biased and unless you what every premiership match every week, which is about 1/2 a days solid viewing they are as good a guide as any.

**tricky_colour** · 21/12/2006, 12:42 AM

If you look at Andy Reids stats on Opta they are pretty impressive
http://home.skysports.com/optastats....thletic&cpid=8
He features high in most categories, bar tackling, which is understandable for
a more attacking player. 48.1% in both dribbling and shooting. And his passing is
high when you consider he is a forward player where passes are harder to make sucessfully.

**eirebhoy** · 21/12/2006, 9:59 AM

Originally Posted by tricky_colour

It's a pity they don't show the top 200 becuase you don't know who is hovering on the fringes. I wonder where Geary is for example? But basically you have to be playing regularly to have a chance.

There's not even 200 players playing regularly.

**tricky_colour** · 21/12/2006, 4:08 PM

There are certaintly more than 200 Premiership players, only a small percentage will play every game.

**joema** · 24/12/2006, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by hoops1

Crazy comment Keane is massively gifted technically

Kingdom Hoop
Its a very valid point. Reid doesnt stand out. Hes mediocre
We are only aware of him because of him being Irish. Not because hes a great player.

Andy Reid -mediocre?? Are you on drugs??

Reid has fantastic ability - its hardly surprising spurs paid 4/5 million for him - after all Spurs have a reputation for signing the best young talent outside in the prem - eg Huddlestone, Dawson etc. The fact that they rated Reid so highly shows he must have something about him!!! Things didnt work out for him at Spurs but thats hardly surprising considering the amount of midfielders they have/had, on top of this he also struggled with injuries.

He was brilliant on the left wing for Forrest, naturally when he stepped up to the Prem it was harder for him to do a good job on the left as he lacks pace and isnt really the type of player who gets past his man before he crosses.

But now Charlton seem to realise he is best deployed in the centre of midfield where he can make things happen and influence the game more. He has, IMO world class creativity and is gives a brilliant through pass.

Andy Reid is a great player, he certainly i not "mediocre"

He has great creativity - on his senior international debut he was superb in the centre of midfield - albeit against Canada

**dr_peepee** · 26/12/2006, 10:19 AM

Has fantastic ability? Yes. Great player? No. But he's the best we have to make things happen. Should start for Ireland for the forseable future.

He's a typical C student.... Good but could do better, for me anyway!!

**citizenerased** · 29/12/2006, 8:59 AM

reid is a decent player, he is charltons best player by a long shot this season(not saying much really). It showed all he needed was to be playing regular football, and i think he should deffo start in the upcoming internationals