Another Scottish born player declares for us

**Billsthoughts** · 15/11/2006, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by youngirish

Why do people born in other countries always want to declare for us? Scottish, English, Northern Irish. Why are we so popular? Is it due to the Louis Walsh effect whereby we are now idolised all throughout Europe due initially to the success of Boyzone which he subsequently followed up with Westlife? This can't fully explain it though as we did experience a similar set of circumstances in the pre-Boyzone days under Charlton and Hand.

You never hear of any lads born in the Republic wanting to play for any other International teams. Are we more patriotic than most other nations? Or is it just our grandfathers and their brothers traversed the world sharing their Irish seeds amongst the local female population? Anyone got any explanation?

Deffo the Louis Walsh effect...

**Block G Raptor** · 15/11/2006, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by youngirish

Why do people born in other countries always want to declare for us? Scottish, English, Northern Irish. Why are we so popular? Is it due to the Louis Walsh effect whereby we are now idolised all throughout Europe due initially to the success of Boyzone which he subsequently followed up with Westlife? This can't fully explain it though as we did experience a similar set of circumstances in the pre-Boyzone days under Charlton and Hand.

It was the Eurovision's fault I'm telling ya!

**endabob1** · 15/11/2006, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by Block G Raptor

It was the Eurovision's fault I'm telling ya!

Johnny Logan's "What's another year" is the reason, no professional footballer can resist the soothing tones of Johnny in full flow

**EalingGreen** · 15/11/2006, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by youngirish

Why do people born in other countries always want to declare for us? Scottish, English, Northern Irish. Why are we so popular? Is it due to the Louis Walsh effect whereby we are now idolised all throughout Europe due initially to the success of Boyzone which he subsequently followed up with Westlife? This can't fully explain it though as we did experience a similar set of circumstances in the pre-Boyzone days under Charlton and Hand.

You never hear of any lads born in the Republic wanting to play for any other International teams. Are we more patriotic than most other nations? Or is it just our grandfathers and their brothers traversed the world sharing their Irish seeds amongst the local female population? Anyone got any explanation?

Of course you've never had any ROI boys declaring for other nations: Ireland has never had any significant immigration until comparatively recently.

It's possible that in another 15 or 20 years you might have young Irish-born lads opting for e.g. Lithuania or Latvia, mind.

And as for "overseas" players opting for the ROI, in many cases this will have been because they were much less likely to get a regular place in the team of the country of their birth*.

As for your Louis Walsh theory, I laughed out loud when I read this, but on further reflection, I've begun to suspect that in the absence of Sir Bobby Robson, Stan has actually been using a panel of Louis, Simon and Sharon to pick (and coach) his teams.

* - How many Irish caps did Tony Cascarino get? Rather more than he'd have got for England or Italy, I fancy!

**Billsthoughts** · 15/11/2006, 1:11 PM

Professional footballers in "looking after their own self interest" shocker!!!!

**Block G Raptor** · 15/11/2006, 2:28 PM

Originally Posted by endabob1

Johnny Logan's "What's another year" is the reason, no professional footballer can resist the soothing tones of Johnny in full flow

At least we were cosistantly the best at something in europe Scotland wales or Ingerland Couldn't boast that now could they

BaZmO* · 15/11/2006, 3:54 PM

"It seems the only way you get picked to play for Scotland at Under-17s is if you play for the Old Firm. Jamie made his debut in a Hamilton side joint top of the First Division, but he's not good enough for Scotland Under-17s. It's mad."

It think that's the most important point to be taken from the article.
Although fairplay to the lad, at least he's making the decision to play for us early on in his career rather than waiting until he's in his late 20's and washed up in the lower leagues still hoping to be "noticed". Hopefully he turns out to be a decent player for us.

**davey** · 15/11/2006, 8:43 PM

Originally Posted by Billsthoughts

Professional footballers in "looking after their own self interest" shocker!!!!

Erm, how is declaring for a country ranked lower than Scotland looking after his own self interest??

I'm a 2g, raised in birmingham but have lived in glasgow for the last few years. In my experience, the irish connection in the west of scotland is generally 2 generations past. Most Irish scots under 30 would have their link to Ireland, or more specifically Donegal, through their Grandparents. However due to the social stuff mentioned earlier, these links are still keenly felt. Growing up in Birmingham, nearly all Irish fans would have both parents being Irish. People with Irish grandparents would usually be England fans. Patterns of immigration being as they are, the west of scotland wasn't seen as an attractive place to the Irish emigre in the 60s and 70s.

**tricky_colour** · 15/11/2006, 10:23 PM

There is a Dublin born guy playing for England, albeit at cricket, which is even worse

http://www.metronews.ca/storyCP.aspx?pg=./4111501AU.xml
Are England complaining? I don't think he has English parents or grandparents either - but I have not checked.

**Billsthoughts** · 15/11/2006, 10:56 PM

Originally Posted by davey

Erm, how is declaring for a country ranked lower than Scotland looking after his own self interest??
.

he was talking about tony cascarino.

**endabob1** · 16/11/2006, 8:13 AM

I know loads of English born people who through their ancestry consider themselves Irish and support Ireland rather than England, I also know some English born people who chose to ignore their Irish ancestry and describe themselves as English. It's a personal choice

**Freoch** · 16/11/2006, 10:20 AM

Hi everyone, im new.
I think that more and more over the coming years players will declare and play for any international team for which they are eligible. E.g. Marlon King , Vinnie Jones.
However so far (thankfully) in the case of Ireland many players have had a genuine wish to play for us and a genuine affinity with the country, handed down from their grandparenrs or parents , with this i mean the likes of aldridge and houghton.
Unfortunately i think many of the newer British born irish players dont seem to have this , we are moving into vinnie jones territory by courting **** ants like Kevin Nolan and many other lower league players id like to mention here but i wont.
It sounds like this new scottish guy is the real deal and with McGeady you can see it too but i dont like the way its starting to go.

**macdermesser** · 20/11/2006, 9:27 AM

oh oh ... Man United are after him now according to the Daily Mirror (on the BBC website).

hope Fergie won't try talk him around for playing for Scotland and hope he doesn't turn out to be the new Liam Miller. Granred Miller was already 23 when he signed for United.

Sounds like a prospect though!

**livehead1** · 20/11/2006, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by tricky_colour

There is a Dublin born guy playing for England, albeit at cricket, which is even worse

http://www.metronews.ca/storyCP.aspx?pg=./4111501AU.xml
Are England complaining? I don't think he has English parents or grandparents either - but I have not checked.

I read this story with a keen interest when it first emerged over a year ago. Ed Joyce is his name, and he is 100% irish. He plays for Middlesex. the reason he is playing for England is nothing to do with him feeling an affiliation with the side he plays cricket for, it is simply because Ireland's international side is not professional. Cricket in Ireland is an amateur sport, so for Joyce to progress he has little choice.

His circumstances can be distinguished from that of Kyran Bracken, how is Irish, but decided to play for England.

**cavan_fan** · 20/11/2006, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by youngirish

You never hear of any lads born in the Republic wanting to play for any other International teams. Are we more patriotic than most other nations? Or is it just our grandfathers and their brothers traversed the world sharing their Irish seeds amongst the local female population? Anyone got any explanation?

You have a point here. I understand how English born players (e.g. Clinton) may see us as an easy way to get to play International Football. I also understand at the time McGeady made his choice that it might have seemed like we were a better prosepct of major finals than Scotland. Over the last 20 years in fact we've been the ideal combination of a team that is relatively easy to get into but likely to get to a major finals.

I'd suggest that this is no longer the case. A young Scottish player is about as likely to break into the Scottish team as the Irish team and they are both as likely to get to a major finals. Makes it a strange decision and hard to justify on footballing/selfish grounds.

By the way I'd guess the reason you dont have that many Irish players declaring for other countries is our lack of strength in depth. I cant think of a decent Irish player who has not been capped by the end of his career.

**The Legend** · 20/11/2006, 3:47 PM

Originally Posted by Poor Student

They consider this their country. If you knew much about the social history of Scotland over the last century and a half or so you'd know that the Irish immigrants weren't integrated very well into Scottish society and have hence maintained a strong Irish identity.

I wonder if you would be so strong in your opinions if a young irish kid declared for Scotland cause of His 'ol Granddaddy! Oh and personally I couldnt careless but this would be irritating if I was scottish.

**ramondo** · 20/11/2006, 8:57 PM

Originally Posted by endabob1
Johnny Logan's "What's another year" is the reason, no professional footballer can resist the soothing tones of Johnny in full flow

Originally Posted by Block G Raptor

At least we were cosistantly the best at something in europe Scotland wales or Ingerland Couldn't boast that now could they

...but we didn't realise the joke was on us.

**dr_peepee** · 21/11/2006, 4:50 AM

Maybe he's an orphan living with his mean old uncle. And he has to make it to Ireland somehow with his little sister to find his Granny...

**Qwerty** · 24/11/2006, 12:38 AM

Originally Posted by livehead1

I read this story with a keen interest when it first emerged over a year ago. Ed Joyce is his name, and he is 100% irish. He plays for Middlesex. the reason he is playing for England is nothing to do with him feeling an affiliation with the side he plays cricket for, it is simply because Ireland's international side is not professional. Cricket in Ireland is an amateur sport, so for Joyce to progress he has little choice.

His circumstances can be distinguished from that of Kyran Bracken, how is Irish, but decided to play for England.

Bracken was given the cold shoulder by Ireland selectors at underage level, he would have played for Ireland if he had been picked. The IRFU used to - and may still do at under age level - have a very political selection policy.