Rossport Today

[Student Mullet]

I never saw the news the day this all went on. Is there any links where I can see for myself pictures or videos of what went on?

[jebus]

Amazing how the guards have no problem using violence against teachers sitting down in a road, or students marching against an illegal war, but when it came to a mob tearing up O'Connell St last march they were oddly quiet. Same old **** in this country with that police force, when there's an actual crime happening in town they're usually off taking some kid's football off him for kicking it in the street. they are genuinely terrified of real criminals and then take out their fear and frustrations on people who generally won't fight back

As for whether or not the protestors deserved a beating for standing up for what they believe in, no I don't think they did

[BohsPartisan]

What we must be clear about here is that the law, the Gardaí, the state in general exists for the purpose of safegaurding the "rights" of big business. If your opponant is playing with a stacked deck, its pointless trying to play by the rules. The Garda thugs will be protected by the state. The millionaire owned propaganda machine that is the mainstream media will spread bogus stories of "Violent protests" and fictional injured female Gardaí.
A good analogy (though Rossport is on a smaller scale) was the viscious assault on the Miners strike of 1984 by the UK state. There was a sustained campaign of media vilification against the strikers. The cops beat up strikers and intimidated their families. The BBC edited film footage to make it look like the miners had attacked first when it has since been verified that it was the cops who moved first. People protesting against state repression and multinationals who use "our" state security force as their own private boot boys have no moral obligation to abide by the polite norms of fair protest as there are simply no such niceties observed by the state.

[dahamsta]

You might want to tone down the rhetoric BohsPartisan, you sound like a TV caricture of an old skool commie; all you're short is the word "comrade". Seriously, you're not doing yourself any favours with it, people are just going to laugh or ignore you completely.

[BohsPartisan]

Thats their problem. I'm just telling it as I see it. The thing about the BBC editing footage is 100% true and not some conspiracy theory, they have since admitted it.
It would help if you could point to the places in particular you feel I have gone OTT and maybe I could address them individualy.

[dahamsta]

Well, start with the first sentence, which is a gross exaggeration and insulting to many, not least the Gardaí. There are some bad apples in the Gardaí, sure, but labelling the entire force like that is simply not grounded in reality. Then you call them "thugs", which is another step down that road. Then you make a comparison to the miner's strike, which I'm sure the miners would find offensive.

I'm not stopping you ranting (as long as it doesn't interfere with the operation of Foot.ie), feel free. I'm just telling you that you sound like a college kid on a college rant; and if you talk like that, as I said, people in general are going to do one of two things: a) laugh or b) ignore you. You'd do a lot better if you toned down the rhetoric, imho.

adam

[sonofstan]

Adam, why is what BP is doing 'rhetoric' whereas Ringo (just for example) calling the protestors a 'rent- a- mob' not? And, on another point, I don't think people who were involved in the 84-85 miners strike would find his comparison offensive at all

[BohsPartisan]

The first sentance I qualify with the term "In General". I.E. the system we live under was set up by a certain class I.E. The capitalist class in its own image to serve its own interests. "Private Property" rights in the capitalist system supercede (in general) all other rights. As the Gardaí exist as an institution to uphold these laws, what I said is generally true.
The Morris tribunal pointed to more than a few Bad Apples and to widespread corruption in the force. This is notwithstanding the genuineness of many individual Gardaí and is a criticism of the institution rather than individuals.
As for the thugs remark, their actions in Rossport and at Demos I have personally witnessed in Dublin bares this out.
I don't understand why you say the miners would find the comparison offensive.

[dahamsta]

Adam, why is what BP is doing 'rhetoric' whereas Ringo (just for example) calling the protestors a 'rent- a- mob' not?

I didn't see Ringo's post, I did see BP's. That's what BP gets for drawing attention to himelf.

I don't think people who were involved in the 84-85 miners strike would find his comparison offensive at all

Perhaps not. If I was one of them, I would. Rossport v the miner's strike? Slight difference in scale, topic, approach, etc, etc.

[BohsPartisan]

Scale is different (which I said in my original point). The reaction of the state though is similar and it was the comparison I was drawing.

[WeAreRovers]

Adam, why is what BP is doing 'rhetoric'

It's not BP it's Shell.

Seriously though, the Shell to Sea people need to sort out their PR quickly. As dahamsta points out in relation to Boh Partisan's post, a lot of the anti-Shell stuff comes across as old school left wing begrudgery.

The real issues are multinationals being handed state assets for free and the use of the Gardai to enforce the will of said multinationals. Shell to Sea need to concentrate on the issues and getting their message across.

KOH

[dahamsta]

I wouldn't mind, but there's plenty of modern-minded PR people in the likes of Greenpeace who would be only too willing to help; if not on the record then off the record.

adam

[BohsPartisan]

As dahamsta points out in relation to Boh Partisan's post, a lot of the anti-Shell stuff comes across as old school left wing begrudgery.

That just happens to be true.
You're right though that more emphasis should be put on the giveaway of natural resourses which is what I was saying all along in the old Rossport thread.

[anto1208]

That just happens to be true.
You're right though that more emphasis should be put on the giveaway of natural resourses which is what I was saying all along in the old Rossport thread.

they are nt giving it away , our goverment cant afford to bring the gas ashore and treat it so they are getting shell who will spend million apon millions doing just that , the gas will be pumped into the irish network and into your home reducing our dependancy on importing energy in turn reducing your gas bill . its for the greater good of the people .


i notice these protesters still drive cars , unless its run on rapeseed oil arent they being a bit hypocritcal ?. They will buy and use products produced by these "evil oil company's" but still protest against them ????

is it a not in my back yard thing with them i wonder ?

[BohsPartisan]

I still eat food that is produced by Capitalist concerns. Are you suggesting that anyone who is against Capitalism should grow their own food and drop out of society like hippies? Of course they drive cars, they live out in the back of beyond. They have to drive cars. As for motivations for the process there are many, from simply the issue of the pipeline being dangerous (hence the name of the campaign) to that of the pipeline being given away. The idea that the Irish government could not afford to bring the gas ashore itself is ridiculous. Its been done before for a start so why is this situation different?

[anto1208]

I still eat food that is produced by Capitalist concerns. Are you suggesting that anyone who is against Capitalism should grow their own food and drop out of society like hippies??

well yes the only way capitalist company's as you call them will take any notice is when it hits there profit margins .

So you dont want shell etc to produce gas or petrol etc but you do want to use it to drive your car and heat your house how does that work ??

this pipeline or treatment plant is of no more a danger than a power station

i dont agree with for example battery raised chicken so i dont eat them , i dont sit in KFC tucking into some popcorn chicken protesting about how KFC treat animals !!!!

[BohsPartisan]

Individual consumer boycotts do little to make Capitalist companies - the only type there are today, sit up and take notice. In case you haven't noticed, Shell don't produce gas, they process already existing resources. People have needs. Boycotting stuff is pointless in general unless it is linked to some sort of industrial action. The workers produce everything. Why shouldn't they use what they collectively have produced. The problem is the ownership of these resources and thats where we merge with the Socialism thread so I'll stop at that.

[osarusan]

So you dont want shell etc to produce gas or petrol etc but you do want to use it to drive your car and heat your house how does that work ??

Would you use that arguement to somebody who used their car to travel around and gave presentations informing people about the effects of fossil fuels on global warming?

Would you say that they should just stay home and not use any fossil fuel generated form of transport?

I think that you are using a pretty selective arguement to accuse these people of being hypocritical.

i dont agree with for example battery raised chicken so i dont eat them , i dont sit in KFC tucking into some popcorn chicken protesting about how KFC treat animals !!!!

I think people have a lot more choice regarding the kind of fast food they eat than the kind of fuel they use, so I dont think the comparison is apt.

[dahamsta]

This thread is drifting off-topic, please keep it on the Rossport issue directly.

[anto1208]

Would you use that arguement to somebody who used their car to travel around and gave presentations informing people about the effects of fossil fuels on global warming?

Would you say that they should just stay home and not use any fossil fuel generated form of transport?

I think that you are using a pretty selective arguement to accuse these people of being hypocritical.




I think people have a lot more choice regarding the kind of fast food they eat than the kind of fuel they use, so I dont think the comparison is apt.

well yes i think the phrase is practice what you preach !!!

there is allways a choice solar, wind, hydro, biofuel etc etc , the people in this rossport nonsence are protesting about shell while at the same time supporting them by buying there products

what is there arguement ? they want petrol /gas etc but they dont want it processed here but they are quite happy to use petrol or gas processed somewhere else .