To be or not to be? NOT TO BE!

**nelo** · 17/10/2002, 8:32 AM

This maddness must stop, the time has come for Mc Carthy to hang up his sheepskin overcoat and retire to the vast earnings he made whilst taking Ireland nowhere fast. People talk about his "fantastic" record, but who can possibly be so blind as to believe it.

He took over at a time when the fruits of the Jack Charlton era were just about ready to blossom, a new generation of football talent was rising in Ireland, these wonderkids would undoubtedly be playing Gaelic games now if Italia 90 hadn't changed the attitude of Irish schools towards soccer. I know, I was 11 years old at the time and had never played soccer, it was forbidden in my school. You either played Gaelic Football or you went home to do your homework, but after that incredible game against Romania our rogue teacher did something that caused a lot of anger from the principle to the parents. He took us out to play soccer and many of us never looked back.
That was Mc Carthy's inheritance a country with a whole new attitude.

As for his "record" we failed twice to qualify for major tournaments under his reign 98' and 2000' were massive blunders that anywhere else would have condemed Mc Carthy to the dole queue.

He got lucky, very lucky during the last campaign and as a result was labeled a hero. The truth was we should have done better in Japan and Korea, far better but due to mismanagement of players and terrible team selection the players were let down and we were let down.

So why change now? Well Mc Carthy has made clear his intention to vacate his post at the end of this campaign, qualify or not. At this stage it doesn't look like qualification is an option. Why stick with Mc Carthy for another year and then start anew with the pressure on to qualify for the next World Cup a new manager should be brought in now to get comfortable with the job at hand now that last nights terrible setback has relieved the pressure.

Everyone has their own personal preference for the job, mine is the man who should have taken charge 6 and a half years ago. Joe Kinnear is everything McCarthy is not, he is a manager of men and resources, unlike McCarthy he has a managerial record and also the ability to infuse confidence and team spirit into players down in their luck.

The time has come a change is needed, it will be interesting to see if the FAI has the balls to make it.

Until then: Irish Football R.I.P.

brine2 · 17/10/2002, 8:45 AM

The time has come a change is needed, it will be interesting to see if the FAI has the balls to make it.

The FAI can't even organise balls for training...

I told a Dutch man that we had John O'Shea and Andy O'Brien on the bench and were playing Breen and Cunningham. I said this was the equivalent to picking Bert Konterman over Jaap Stam. He agreed. It's absolute madness.

**pete** · 17/10/2002, 11:37 AM

Originally posted by nelo
He took over at a time when the fruits of the Jack Charlton era were just about ready to blossom, a new generation of football talent was rising in Ireland,

Correction - McCarthy took over when Charlton was playing an aging team & failed to blood new younger players.

I'm not necessarily saying McCarthy should stay but some of the criticism has become over the top & too personal in recent months.

I always get the impression (maybe unfairly) that the most outspoken McCarthy critics were in primary school during the Charlton era & have short memories.

btw Andy O'Brien is inhjured at the moment.

**Shed End John** · 17/10/2002, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by nelo

a new manager should be brought in now to get comfortable with the job at hand now that last nights terrible setback has relieved the pressure.

The time has come a change is needed, it will be interesting to see if the FAI has the balls to make it.

Agreed. A change of manager simply MUST be made, preferably in time for the Greece game.

No it won't be interesting to see what the FAI will do because I already know what's going to happen.......F***ALL. The only way Mick will go is if he tenders his own resignation, and he wasn't speaking like a man about to do that at the post-match press conference.

Murphy Out Now!!!
McCarthy Out Now!!!

**Gary** · 17/10/2002, 11:48 AM

You are right there pete. When Mick took over the squad was fairly bad. McCarthy found and blooded in new players.

Now, Im not neccesarily a fan of Micks, but again as Pete said the criticism is way over the top. Okay everyone is entitled to an opinion, but most of the anti McCarthy people are more "pro Roy" than anything else. They cannot seem to make the distinguishment (is that even a word???) between the two.

Im against what Roy did (piddle on his country)
I think Mick started badly last night. DUFF IS A FOOKING winger.

**Schumi** · 17/10/2002, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by GWA
distinguishment (is that even a word???)

Distinction perhaps?

You're right about Keane, that ****er should never play for Ireland again.

**James** · 17/10/2002, 11:56 AM

Originally posted by Schumi
You're right about Keane, that ****er should never play for Ireland again.

jeeze give robbie a break man ...he played a poor game last night ..but i mean he had a great world cup

**Schumi** · 17/10/2002, 12:01 PM

**pete** · 17/10/2002, 12:05 PM

Of course all this anti-McCarthy (only a matter of time before someone says he not irish) stuff will be used as another stick to beat the FAI with.

IMO the FAI are damned if they do & damned if they don't. They have to publically back the manager until something changes. Arte people suggesting the FAi sack their manager they gave a contract extension to less than 6 months ago on the basis of 2 bad results? Are these the same "talk radio football people" who maon about the FAIs lack of professionalism & that they wou;dn't give McCarthy a proper salary in contrcat negotiations.

Football fans crawl out of the woodwork in the summer during the World Cup & won't be seen again until we somehow qualify for another big tournament.

The hypocracy stinks throughout this country.

**Shed End John** · 17/10/2002, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by Schumi

You're right about Keane, that ****er should never play for Ireland again.

I'm not trying to reopen a very thorny issue here, BUT, Holland and Kinsella are WAY below the required standard at international level. Last night we badly missed a certain exiled world-class midfielder.

Murphy Out Now!!!
McCarthy Out Now!!!

**�anna** · 17/10/2002, 1:36 PM

Originally posted by Shed End John
Last night we badly missed a certain exiled world-class midfielder.

I wouldn�t have called playing on the right wing exile, but you�re right, Colin Healy should play in the centre.

**�anna** · 17/10/2002, 1:39 PM

Originally posted by pete
Correction - McCarthy took over when Charlton was playing an aging team & failed to blood new younger players.

I'm not necessarily saying McCarthy should stay but some of the criticism has become over the top & too personal in recent months.

I always get the impression (maybe unfairly) that the most outspoken McCarthy critics were in primary school during the Charlton era & have short memories.

Spot on. Like I�ve said time and again, I�m anti-mcCarthy because of what he has done wrong tactics/team-selection wise, not because of blind faith in a player who p!ssed on his country. I think the time is now right for McCarthy to go, because he�ll never succeed with the pressure he�s under now- it�s a sad way for the most successful manager this country has ever had to go, but it�s for the best.

**nelo** · 17/10/2002, 1:55 PM

Originally posted by pete

Correction - McCarthy took over when Charlton was playing an aging team & failed to blood new younger players.

True Charlton was playing the last of the old guard at the time, meanwhile there were countless up and coming youths full of skill and passion who made their own way to the top (Mc Carthy did not discover them himself and put them in the Premiership) he simply read about these upcoming stars in the papers and called them into the squad. Then he missmanaged them!
Anyway these are just my opinions, I have never respected Mc Carthy unlike most people whose opinions change more often than the seasons.
As for Roy Keane, I for one couldn't really give a s**t if he plays again or not, I think we have more than enough class players to do without him. This isn't about Roy Keane, it's about Mc Carthy and the future.
So we don't qualify and Mc Carthy leaves next Autumn, thats 1 whole year wasted when another manager who will come in anyway could be working with the squad. The time is now, why waste it?

**pete** · 17/10/2002, 3:09 PM

Originally posted by nelo

True Charlton was playing the last of the old guard at the time, meanwhile there were countless up and coming youths full of skill and passion who made their own way to the top (Mc Carthy did not discover them himself and put them in the Premiership) he simply read about these upcoming stars in the papers and called them into the squad. Then he missmanaged them!

In Charltons last game (playoff v Holland) he played fullbacks in the wide midfield positions. I'll criticise McCarthy when he continues to include very limted players such as Carsley when better young players are available but he has generally had a very young squad with some of those young players only coming good in recent years. Duff for example was capped at 17 i think & has only thrived in the international set-up in the last year.

**foureyes** · 18/10/2002, 2:18 PM

I cant understand how people can still back mccarthy. Why?

1: There is much talk (often from mick himself) about his great record as international manager; you can talk all day long about unbeaten records or whatever but the fact is out of three qualification attempts, we scraped through one via the back door, only because we drew the weakest possible opponents (Iran) in the playoffs. We got lucky. Would we have finished 2nd in the wc qualification group without roy keane? no chance.

2: We are now struggling badly in this group (dont give me this 'oh its only two games in'; there are only 8 games in total) and nothing seems to have changed between the russia and swiss games. We played in much the same haphazard fashion in both.

3: The 'wonderful world cup performance' we apparenty had. We needed an injury time goal to scrape into the second round. Germany were all over us until they scored and they just sat back and let us come at them. We created maybe 2 clear chances in a game where we spent 60 minutes attacking. In the second round we were (and people seem to have missed this) ELIMINATED. Did we play well against Spain? Absolutely. We lost when we should have won? Sure. We lost though.

4:He is the longest serving international manager in Europe (the world??) AFAIK, his time is up. He has already stated he missed club football. He says he will never pick Keane again, and love or loathe him he is our best player. Evidently some people would prefer us to not qualify without keane than to qualify with him. For all his mistakes he has been a fantastic player for Ireland, particularly in the last few years and I think he deserves to play in what would surely be his last major internatioal tournament.
He should resign now for the good of the team.

5:Kilbane. Sometimes he can be handy, particularly as defensive cover for harte, but he is playing so badly and is so lacking in confidence and I would even say hunger that any player really would be a better option on the left. The obvious candidate is Duff who played much better against the swiss when he switched to the wing. He is after all a winger. I realise harte is then a problem but throwing gary kelly in there at left back is an option (in away games at least) until someone better can be found.

**Macy** · 18/10/2002, 3:27 PM

6) He's not even Irish!!!!!

**�anna** · 19/10/2002, 2:26 PM

Originally posted by foureyes
Evidently some people would prefer us to not qualify without keane than to qualify with him. For all his mistakes he has been a fantastic player for Ireland, particularly in the last few years and I think he deserves to play in what would surely be his last major internatioal tournament.

He obviously has no interest in representing his country in a major international tournament, seeing as he walked from Saipan

**Macy** · 21/10/2002, 8:39 AM

Originally posted by �anna

He obviously has no interest in representing his country in a major international tournament, seeing as he walked from Saipan

Yeah that's why he busted a gut to get us there........ Face it, he raised the standards of those around him, and without him we just can't compete - compare Holland and Kinsella's performances as a partnership, as compared to the the individual performances when they were partnering Keane in midfield....... Don't really want to start that whole RK debate again, but IMO McCarthy has made plenty of other fcuk ups even if you support him versus Keane...... He should have gone after the world cup, when people who know nothing thought we had a good world cup..... (rather than the reality of us winning one game and bottling it againts spain)......

**�anna** · 21/10/2002, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by Macy
Yeah that's why he busted a gut to get us there........ raised the standards of those around him, and without him we just can't compete

Can�t argue with that, but I�d still rather not have him in the team.

Originally posted by Macy
Don't really want to start that whole RK debate again, but IMO McCarthy has made plenty of other fcuk ups even if you support him versus Keane......

Couldn�t agree more. It�s about the only decision McCarthy has ever made that I agree with.

**Schumi** · 21/10/2002, 12:22 PM

Originally posted by �anna

Couldn�t agree more. It�s about the only decision McCarthy has ever made that I agree with.

Yeah, I'd have to agree with you there. I think that, perversely, that may be what will keep him in the job. People will support him because of the Roy thing, otherwise his support would be lower.

I'd like to see him gone but ONLY if there's someone decent (not O'Leary or Kinnear) available to take his place.