Stan Passing The Buck

**Billsthoughts** · 10/11/2006, 12:11 PM

I think it should be applied a bit more to the senior team. certain standards of performance should be demanded. a lot of the players seem to play regardless of form(club) or the way they played in previous games. obviously alligned to a bit of common sense. Basically nobody should be guaranteed their place unless their form as opposed to their "name" makes them undroppable.

**Stuttgart88** · 10/11/2006, 1:07 PM

I'd handle Robbie by a good talking to. He's unquestionably one of our best players. The last few seasons it's taken him until November to get going at club level (at the earliest). Unfortunately we've usually played at least 2 qualifiers by then!

John O'Shea on the other hand should be dropped. I'm more worried about the message that continuous selection sends to him than to Robbie.

I think O'Sullivan's words were to be taken in the context of a settled & relatively successful team. The only real choices this week were at no. 2 and no. 15 where the form players (Best & Depmsey) were picked.

I suppose you could say that if form was the main criteria of selection for Staunton, Carlsey would have played earlier, and maybe McPhail, Alan Quinn & Paddy McCarthy may have figured more, at the expense of O'Shea, Ireland, Miller and Andy O'Brien.

Hmm, reviewing that last sentence, if only Stan did use form as the sole basis for selection.

In Stokes' case form would be just one factor to consider though. Age, experience, managing expectations etc. would be others. As you say, you've got to align form with common sense.

**Billsthoughts** · 10/11/2006, 1:19 PM

Again I think its only San Marino. Throw Stokes in and give him a bit of confidance. Am not saying he is suddenly the best player in the world cause he scored a few goals but he has scored a few and he should be rewarded.

**Stuttgart88** · 10/11/2006, 2:00 PM

Fair enough, I can see the merit in that.

**DmanDmythDledge** · 10/11/2006, 3:10 PM

Originally Posted by Billsthoughts

Robbie is never going to score a load of goals. He is a talented footballer but not a great goalscorer.

He is our all time top scorer and a proven goalscorer in the Premiership.

Originally Posted by Billsthoughts

Again I think its only San Marino. Throw Stokes in and give him a bit of confidance. Am not saying he is suddenly the best player in the world cause he scored a few goals but he has scored a few and he should be rewarded.

I don't think we should mess around with the team just because it's San Marino. The players need to get used to playing with one another. It's important to have consistincy in the team selection.

**Billsthoughts** · 10/11/2006, 3:53 PM

twenty odd goals hardly marks him as one of the most prolific international strikers around does it?
And he doesnt score that many in the premiership. and tends to go long periods without a goal.
And yeah we should be looking to try players against San Marino. They are utter crap.

**DmanDmythDledge** · 10/11/2006, 4:18 PM

Originally Posted by Billsthoughts

twenty odd goals hardly marks him as one of the most prolific international strikers around does it?

Best Irish around.

And he doesnt score that many in the premiership. and tends to go long periods without a goal.

16 goals last season.

And yeah we should be looking to try players against San Marino. They are utter crap.

If we mess around with the San Marino game it will cost us in later games.

**Noelys Guitar** · 10/11/2006, 4:36 PM

We put out the best team possible. And that includes Keane who was excellent against Chelsea last week. He is still gettting into great positions to score goals. And we would have some neck putting out a "Carling cup team" against San Marino.

**Billsthoughts** · 10/11/2006, 4:38 PM

look am not going to argue with you all day on this.
the Irish Goalscoring record was hardly one of the more unatainable records in world football.
He is a guaranteed starter in every game so am sure that helps when it comes to comparing his goalscoring record with other players. 16 goals last season and he was scoring very infrequently til xmas. 9 for stokes in about 5 games so far this season AFAIR. He looks poor for ireland and a lot of people have said it.
Saying he is playing ok and will come good I can accept(eventho I dont agree with the first part).
Saying he is Irelands record goalscorer therefore he should play is a load of me ********.

**DmanDmythDledge** · 10/11/2006, 4:59 PM

Originally Posted by Billsthoughts

look am not going to argue with you all day on this.

Because you know you're wrong?

the Irish Goalscoring record was hardly one of the more unatainable records in world football.

It's an unatainable record in Irish football.

He is a guaranteed starter in every game so am sure that helps when it comes to comparing his goalscoring record with other players.

Well if you want to use goals per game ratio Keane comes out on top again.

16 goals last season and he was scoring very infrequently til xmas.

16 goals is 16 goals. Sure he was scoring frequently after Christmas.

Saying he is Irelands record goalscorer therefore he should play is a load of me ********.

I never said that's the reason he should play. He is a goalscorer- that's why he should play- and that proves that he is.

**Emmet** · 10/11/2006, 9:30 PM

It's amazing that after we have lost to Cyprus 5-2 people are taking the San Marino games for granted ... yes, I think we will win them both but let's not forget Cyrpus or what happened to England ten years or so back when they conceded after 9 seconds because too many of their players turned up expecting a cricket score! In light of Cyprus I'd prefer Stan to go with our 'strongest' XI (in inverted commas because there'll be considerable debate about what that actually is!!) and stick to a 4-4-2 ... ie keep it safe, steady and make sure of the result.

**Traps Cat** · 11/11/2006, 7:37 AM

Originally Posted by DmanDmythDledge

He is our all time top scorer and a proven goalscorer in the Premiership.

I don't think we should mess around with the team just because it's San Marino. The players need to get used to playing with one another. It's important to have consistincy in the team selection.

I Agree 100%

**Billsthoughts** · 11/11/2006, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by DmanDmythDledge

Because you know you're wrong?

and your only evidance to suggest I am wrong is to say he is our record goalscorer? should we put Don Givens in as well?

Originally Posted by DmanDmythDledge

It's an unatainable record in Irish football.

And will continue to be as long as Keane is picked ahead of anyone who might actually score some goals..

Originally Posted by DmanDmythDledge

Well if you want to use goals per game ratio Keane comes out on top again.

I m not sure what you are on about here?

Originally Posted by DmanDmythDledge

16 goals is 16 goals. Sure he was scoring frequently after Christmas.

again what exactly is your point? 15 months without a competitive goal for ireland.yep thats some scoring.which off the top of my head is 6 or 7 games?

Originally Posted by DmanDmythDledge

I never said that's the reason he should play. He is a goalscorer- that's why he should play- and that proves that he is.

when was the last time he scored a goal of note for ireland? more importantly how many chances has he fluffed cause he is not a natural goalscorer?
time for a change.

**Billsthoughts** · 11/11/2006, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by Emmet

It's amazing that after we have lost to Cyprus 5-2 people are taking the San Marino games for granted ... yes, I think we will win them both but let's not forget Cyrpus or what happened to England ten years or so back when they conceded after 9 seconds because too many of their players turned up expecting a cricket score! In light of Cyprus I'd prefer Stan to go with our 'strongest' XI (in inverted commas because there'll be considerable debate about what that actually is!!) and stick to a 4-4-2 ... ie keep it safe, steady and make sure of the result.

San Marino are nowhere near the same standard as Cyprus.
I would prefer if we played same formation as we did against the czechs from now on. with emphasis on Andy Reid as a creative fulcrom. Or if Reid wasnt available maybe try Robbie Keane in the same role. (long term as opposed to in the next couple of games which are non events really.)

**DmanDmythDledge** · 11/11/2006, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by Billsthoughts

and your only evidance to suggest I am wrong is to say he is our record goalscorer?

No it hasn't.

I m not sure what you are on about here?

You said that he was only top Irish goalscorer because he played more games than other strikers.

again what exactly is your point?

He scored 16 goals last season. You tried to take away the merit of that by saying he didn't do well before Christmas.

**eirebhoy** · 11/11/2006, 2:00 PM

Originally Posted by Billsthoughts

San Marino are nowhere near the same standard as Cyprus.

Exactly. A win against San Marino is an absolute cert and you'd have to be the ultimate pessimist to think otherwise. It's really a matter of how many we score.

**Billsthoughts** · 11/11/2006, 3:22 PM

Originally Posted by DmanDmythDledge

He scored 16 goals last season. You tried to take away the merit of that by saying he didn't do well before Christmas.

No I didnt. That the stat of scoring 16 goals last season didnt tell the whole story. Thats all I was pointing out. If as now seems possible we will be playing one out and out striker I dont think it should be him.

**Emmet** · 11/11/2006, 6:11 PM

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

Exactly. A win against San Marino is an absolute cert and you'd have to be the ultimate pessimist to think otherwise. It's really a matter of how many we score.

At home, yes. Away ... I would expect a win but I'm not so sure about it being an "absolute cert". Like I said, if the players turn up thinking like that for either match it'll be an uncomfortable 90 minutes for us.

**Emmet** · 11/11/2006, 6:18 PM

Originally Posted by Billsthoughts

San Marino are nowhere near the same standard as Cyprus.

I bet that's just what Stuart Pearce, David Seaman et al. were thinking when they kicked off on November 17th 1993. Nine seconds later ...

**CollegeTillIDie** · 11/11/2006, 8:06 PM

San Marino conceded 7 against the Czech Republic and 13 against Germany.
If we don't score at least 4 against them the entire team as well as the management should be sacked. We should have least a plus goal difference in the group after this game, even if qualification would require at least three major accidents occurring to the teams in front of us, causing long term injuries, to their entire first XI's !