QuoteGeorge Burley started at Ayr. Craig Brown, and Billy McNeil both started at ClydeOriginally Posted by Poor Student
Billy Davies and Craig Levein. Paul Sturrock if you extend it to 6 years. You're also negelcting the fact that it can carry you up the Scottish football rankings. Alex McLeish went from Motherwell to Hibs to Rangers.
Last edited by Poor Student; 06/11/2006 at 5:43 PM.
George Burley started at Ayr. Craig Brown, and Billy McNeil both started at Clyde
Jimmy Calderwood managed Dunfermiline - finished 4th in 2003-04, got them into Europe for the first time in 35 years and was handed the Aberdeen job.
And don't forget, the UK's most successful manager of all-time, Alex Ferguson started at St Mirren.
No harm Steve, but your's and many other EL fans obsession with the SPL being a lower division than here is wearing thin, of course its a step up, and if he does a good job an obvious stepping stone into the top 5 in scotland,
no one said more money guarentees sucess, but it would give a good manager something more to work with.
When SK took over at derry we could attract anyone of any quality from outside the city to play for us, and certainly couldnt attract good players, to pack up and move here, but SK did, and look at the squad he has built, the exact same story at Tallaght town and Longford town, ok it was a completely different story at bohs, he took over when they where on top, but derry, tallaght and longford were not, and we were not far off the dunfirmline situation at the time, ok we may have won trophies in the past, but that means jack **** when you at the bottom of the heap struggling just ask rovers fans over the last few years.
Where else is there for him to go to step up, the lower leagues in england or scotland, no matter how sucessful is the best to hope for, exactly what steve cotterill and lawrie sanhez
Lawerie Sanez as an example went from Sligo Rovers to Wimbledon to ycombe Wanderers and now is doing a fantastic job with Northern Ireland, i think we can all be sure he will move into the premiership of other national teams from the north with the job he is doing there, and i dont think either of those managers are as good as kenny.
Never once have I claimed that the SPL is a lower division than the EL.
All I'm saying is that if an EL manager wants to use Scottish football as a steppign stone in their career, they would be mad to go form one of our top clubs to one of the male-weights in Scotland. Kenny would be much more able to sghow his abilities - as, for example, he has done this season - over here than he would with small Scottish clubs like Dunfermline or Livingstone. It woudl do their careers more good to stick in Irish football raising their profile through Europe and winning trophies until a better job in Scotland or elsewhere arises.
Conveserly to any supposed superiority complex you think I'm giving the EL, I would argue that people who claim that any move to Scotland is a good move are living in a fantasy world. Moving to a Top 5 Scotrtish team, or one with a decent profile like Kilmarnock or ICT, would make sense. But feckin Dunfermline ?!?
For what my opinions worth, I think he would be better off waiting another season or so, and seeing what he can conjour up in Europe next season.He'd have even more to bring to the bargaining table then.
Also, I think the SPL can be broken up into 3/4 brackets, in comparison to the English leagues.Celtic, Rangers would, usually, be Premiership.Dunfermline, I feel, would be lower league 1/league 2.Make of that what you will, but I think he deserves a team better than Dunfermline.
That leading light of football management....
Well no, actually - he started at East Stirling.
Anyways - everyone has to start somewhere and big clubs don't sign nobodies, so that point is irrelevant. What is relevant is the question - was it St Mirren that gave Ferguson the platform to join United, or Aberdeen ? The answer says it all. Would Ferguson have been wise to make his career move from, say, St Mirren to Dunfermline ? No. Likewise I believe that a manager of either Shels, Derry or Cork would be mad to leave the EL for a club like Dunfermline because they can do nothing with such a club otheer than shift them around the lower-to-mid reaches of the SPL. It eerfore simply wouldn't provide a good enough platform to advance their career any more than remaining successful in Ireland would, whilst waiting for a better job/offer. They could do well at Dunfermline in the hope of getting a job with, say, Kilmarnock or Aberdeen. But what good would that be when they could arguably head straight form Ireland to those clubs off the back of consistently solid European results with an EL team, for example. Don't underestimate the impact of Derry humping Gretna this year - the penny has dropped in a lot of Scottish footballing circles about the reality of the supposed gulf between our leagues.
Last edited by dcfcsteve; 06/11/2006 at 11:56 PM.
As with the other examples - who......??!?
McLeish got the Rangers job because of what he did at Hibs, not what he did (or ratehr didn't do) at Motherwell. Had he moved from Motherwell to Inverness, for example, it would've been less likely he'd have been able to make the step straight up to Rangers, which is precisely my point re Kenny.
You asked a question and you were answered. Sheesh, do you ever admit/think you sometimes get things wrong?
Regardless if the Dons or Calderwood are leading lights or not, they are certainly a bigger club than Derry.
To be honest though, I don't give a flying fcuk if he goes or not.
Not trying to be awkward FBTN - but what did I get wrong ?? Ferguson left St Mirren over 30 years ago - my question was talking about the last 5 years. And Aberdeen are certainly a bigger club than both Derry and Dunfermline, but don't match the type of career step that my original question was referring to.
SK will eventually leave us for someone better - it's inevitable. I'd be surprised if he left to join another Irish club, and very disappointed if he left for a Scottish club unlikely to make Europe more than once in a generation or win at least the League Cup or Scottish Cup.
Last edited by dcfcsteve; 07/11/2006 at 12:18 AM.
Well if you're that ignorant on such things then no wonder you're asking that question. Paul Sturrock was manager of Dundee United and St. Johnstone. He's managed Plymouth, Southampton (in the Premiership), Sheffield Wednesday and I think he's now manager of Swindon. Billy Davies was a successful manager at Preston where he brought them to the playoff final only to be beaten by West Ham. He's now manager of Derby County.As with the other examples - who......??!?
I'm not sure why I put Levein on that list as he was ex-Hearts manager, though he did earn that job by his work at Cowdenbeath. As for my point about McLeish, you seem to have missed it. Say Kenny went to Dunfermline and was semi successful. He could move up to the likes of Hibs/Aberdeen and then onto a reasonably big English club or something bigger like McLeish.
From today's Belfast telegraph.
Both Derry City and Dunfermline were refusing to comment last night as speculation surrounding the future of Stephen Kenny increased.
The Derry City manager is believed to have been in Scotland on Sunday to be interviewed by the Dunfermline board with a view to him becoming the Scottish Premier League club's new manager.
That has been denied by the Brandywell outfit, who yesterday told the Belfast Telegraph that Kenny is going nowhere and with four league games and a cup final coming up in the next month they would be loathe to let their manager leave.
It is understood, however, that the Pars have added another name to their shortlist for the vacant manager's job, indicating that Kenny is a strong candidate to succeed Jim Leishman.
No names were mentioned in a statement released by Dunfermline, who simply confirmed that: "Contrary to previous speculation we would stress that we have at this stage made no offer to anyone."
Kenny, meanwhile, is preparing his Derry City side for a key eircom League clash with Drogheda United this evening.
PS - it was a rhetocal 'who' to highlight that those managers are effectively nobodies. Manger of Swindon Town...?
If SK went to Swindon I'd be disappointed, although to be fair they'd provide a better platform to prove yourself than someone like Dunfermline.
My point is that SK can go to a much better club than Dunfermline, and thereby can fast-track any climb he may make up the managerial pyramid. There's no reason to suspect that City won't have another positive run in Europe next year - we're likely to be seeds for a start - so he will do more to whorr himself around footballing circles through that than he would by scrambling to keep a rubbish Scottish team in the SPL. And if the Pars did go down, they'd find it hard to come back again in a hurry. The Scottish First is surprisingly competitive these days, as Gretna have found to their annoyance.
Sturrock's stock has fallen a little as Wednesday have just sacked him. I don't see anyone better coming in for eL managers. I think Fenlon was linked with the Livingston job (after or before Paul Lambert
Bar Celtic, Rangers, Hearts and Hibs, i wouldnt say its a step up. Altho Gretna are in the first division they are a premier club. I think some teams in the LOI would be able to compete in an SPL without the four mentioned aboveNo harm Steve, but your's and many other EL fans obsession with the SPL being a lower division than here is wearing thin, of course its a step up, and if he does a good job an obvious stepping stone into the top 5 in scotland,
no one said more money guarentees sucess, but it would give a good manager something more to work with.
When SK took over at derry we could attract anyone of any quality from outside the city to play for us, and certainly couldnt attract good players, to pack up and move here, but SK did, and look at the squad he has built, the exact same story at Tallaght town and Longford town, ok it was a completely different story at bohs, he took over when they where on top, but derry, tallaght and longford were not, and we were not far off the dunfirmline situation at the time, ok we may have won trophies in the past, but that means jack **** when you at the bottom of the heap struggling just ask rovers fans over the last few years.
Where else is there for him to go to step up, the lower leagues in england or scotland, no matter how sucessful is the best to hope for, exactly what steve cotterill and lawrie sanhez
Lawerie Sanez as an example went from Sligo Rovers to Wimbledon to ycombe Wanderers and now is doing a fantastic job with Northern Ireland, i think we can all be sure he will move into the premiership of other national teams from the north with the job he is doing there, and i dont think either of those managers are as good as kenny.
Billy Davies
Mowbray - im not sure what you call the big 5?
I'm presuming Celtic, Rangers, Hibs, Jambos and Aberdeen?
TO TELL THE TRUTH IS REVOLUTIONARY
The ONLY foot.ie user with a type of logic named after them!
All of this has happened before. All of it will happen again.
Not so sure about that any more. The 1st division isn't proving to be the cake walk we all thought it would be for them.
Gretna have had it tough at First Division level and were obliterated out of the Scottish League Cup by Hibs.
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