Starting 11 v San Marino

**gwhite** · 23/10/2006, 12:05 PM

It's a bit early for this but why the hell not...
1. GK. Kenny (Needs another run out to help his shattered confidence)
2. RB. Finnan (Has to be played at right back, anywhere else is a waste)
3. LB. O'Shea (Deserves to keep his place after Czech game, but keep him away from central midfield)
4. CB. McShane (Again, deserves to keep his place)
5. CB. Dunne (Needs to redeem himself after Cyprus)
6. CM. Carsley (Was great against Czechs, has to start)
7. CM. Kilbane (Only because Steven Reid is injured)
8. RM. A Reid (Played a stormer for Charlton on Saturday, getting back to full fitness)
11. Duff (has to play against San Marino, will always make chances against these teams)
9. FW. Doyle (A good oppurtunity to open international account)
10. FW. Keane (Needs a few goals to help confidence)

We need to put at least 6 past these to sort out the goal difference. If we get stuck and play as we did against the Czechs, we'll hammer them. Can Stan motivate them for this? Time'll tell.... Also 2 back to back wins against San Marino should move us past the North in the FIFA rankings (something else that needs to be sorted out asap)

**DotTV** · 23/10/2006, 12:11 PM

Kenny should be given back his passport back!
9 goals in 2 games.
Either Henderson or my granny for keeper.
Carsley has to start though.

**Stuttgart88** · 23/10/2006, 12:12 PM

You're right, it is too early!

But Kilbane CM? Again. Despite being crap there. Always (OK, almost always). Please no, not ever again. Not even aganist San Marino.

**cavan_fan** · 23/10/2006, 12:13 PM

I may live to regret this but we have an unusual bonus here of having 2 'competitive friendlies'. This will stop players being withdrawn left right and centre and allow us to experiment. I hope (injuries nto withstanding) that this and any friendlies we do have are spent trying out a settled team.

Woudlnt disagree too much with what you have but would play midfield of McGeady, Reid, Carlsey, Duff.

**dr_peepee** · 23/10/2006, 12:18 PM

Don't think that's work Cavan Fan. Looks good on paper but Carsely would be woefully exposed in the middle.

McGeady, Duff and Reid wouldn't complement each other well in a 4 4 2. Marbe Carsley +1, with the above 3 and a lone striker would work but if we're playing 4 4 2 I'd sacrafice McGeady from the starting line up.

**Stuttgart88** · 23/10/2006, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by dr_peepee

McGeady, Duff and Reid wouldn't complement each other well in a 4 4 2.

Add to that the fact that the front two would be Doyle & Keane in all likelihood, so that'd be 5 diminutive players in a crucuial section of the pitch.

I really think we've got to take note of our lack of physical presence, especially against the better teams in our group. The Welsh are no slouches on the physical front & Germany, Czech Republic and Slovakia are all giants.

I can't see Reid, Duff & McGeady starting together either in the absence of a lone striker.

I thought Douglas brought some much needed attrition to the table in our last game, so he & Carsley should play (at least until S. Reid recovers and wins his place back, likewise Joey O'Brien). This'd form a solid base on which we can build our attacking play around the more creative players.

Then it's 4 from: Doyle & Robbie, Duff, A. Reid, McGeady and Kilbane (KK as a LM option only). You can dress it up as 4-4-2, 4-2-3-1, 4-5-1, 4-3-3, 4-3-1-2 or whatever. As long as they have the cop on to go out & play & keep their markers guessing.

Also, for too long we've used our bench wrongly in my opinion. Let one set of players give it all for 60 mins, then bring on a McGeady or Kilbane. There's nothing to say that even Duff must actually start. I'd actually be torn about who to start from the above players assuming each is fit & on form, and depending on who we're playing.

**youngirish** · 23/10/2006, 1:12 PM

Originally Posted by DotTV

Kenny should be given back his passport back!
9 goals in 2 games.

I agree, he was absolutely shocking in both games. He doesn't have a clue how to marshal the defence and must take major blame for both hammerrings (though he wasn't solely to blame). If Stan had any balls he'd try out Logan who has been extremely impressive for Leicester this season (he got MOTM this weekend). This might send the much needed message to the players that if they are not performing they will be dropped.

On a side note I'd play Carsley and fat Reid in Central Midfield with Duff and either McGeady or Kilbane on the wings (if McGeady is regularly starting for Celtic at the time go for him if not go for Kilbane).

I'd also consider dropping that waster Keane if he's not starting for Spurs if Elliot is fit by then and is playing and scoring (unlikely I know).

I'd also possibly consider starting St Ledger if he's getting his game for Preston and McShane is still sitting on the bench.

**bawn79** · 23/10/2006, 1:12 PM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Add to that the fact that the front two would be Doyle & Keane in all likelihood, so that'd be 5 diminutive players in a crucuial section of the pitch.

I really think we've got to take note of our lack of physical presence, especially against the better teams in our group. The Welsh are no slouches on the physical front & Germany, Czech Republic and Slovakia are all giants.

I can't see Reid, Duff & McGeady starting together either in the absence of a lone striker.

I thought Douglas brought some much needed attrition to the table in our last game, so he & Carsley should play (at least until S. Reid recovers and wins his place back, likewise Joey O'Brien). This'd form a solid base on which we can build our attacking play around the more creative players.

Then it's 4 from: Doyle & Robbie, Duff, A. Reid, McGeady and Kilbane (KK as a LM option only). You can dress it up as 4-4-2, 4-2-3-1, 4-5-1, 4-3-3, 4-3-1-2 or whatever. As long as they have the cop on to go out & play & keep their markers guessing.

Also, for too long we've used our bench wrongly in my opinion. Let one set of players give it all for 60 mins, then bring on a McGeady or Kilbane. There's nothing to say that even Duff must actually start. I'd actually be torn about who to start from the above players assuming each is fit & on form, and depending on who we're playing.

Ya I agree we you there
Could go with anyone in goals really, whoever is viewed as Shays long term successor, can't see it being Henderson or Kenny to be honest, maybe Supple or Logan

Back four
Finnan
Dunne
McShane
Harte (will he be fit?)

Then Carsley and Douglas water-carriers and leave the 6 above fightng it out for the 4 spots.
Might give them something to play for.
Maybe Robbie Keane could be "rested" and the captaincy given to dunne and conviently forget to give it back to him.

**cavan_fan** · 23/10/2006, 1:21 PM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I thought Douglas brought some much needed attrition to the table in our last game, so he & Carsley should play (at least until S. Reid recovers and wins his place back, likewise Joey O'Brien). This'd form a solid base on which we can build our attacking play around the more creative players.
There's nothing to say that even Duff must actually start. I'd actually be torn about who to start from the above players assuming each is fit & on form, and depending on who we're playing.

Was surprised by the praise Douglas got, dont knwo what he adds to the team. I know we need to pcik the right blend but it would be a pity to 'drop' McGeady for Douglas. Think this is the opportunity to try Reid in that place. My hunch is that if fit, Stan may pick Miller ahead of Douglas.

Also, I know Duff is not showing great flair at the moment but he has created our last 3 goals. Even if all he does is provide crosses into the box, thats worth a place. (Beckham made a career out of it!)

**Stuttgart88** · 23/10/2006, 1:34 PM

Originally Posted by cavan_fan

Was surprised by the praise Douglas got, dont knwo what he adds to the team. I know we need to pcik the right blend but it would be a pity to 'drop' McGeady for Douglas.

I agree that Douglas brings little in the way of skill or invention, but he brings mobility and a bit of bite & drive.

I'm really beginning to doubt if Miller has anything to offer us. He's too erratic, too injury prone and quite frequently games just pass him by. A fit Andy Reid is a better player.

I'd like to see more evidence that McGeady can impose himself for Ireland before I'd trust McGeady-Carsley-Reid-Duff as a straight 4 man midfield against the better teams in this group.

Maybe you're right and Carsley & Andy Reid would have the right blend, but 3 of the 4 just look a bit small to me, coupled with the fact that Robbie & Doyle are small by international standards too.

Would we ever win a high ball from either keeper in mdfield? Would we be vulnerable to set pieces etc? Carsley is the only one beyond the defence who can tackle, and so on. This is what dr Peepee was referring to I think, and I'd agree. I think the reason we could compete against the Czechs was because Carsley & Douglas made their presence felt. I think Douglas has to take some of the credit here.

**cavan_fan** · 23/10/2006, 1:39 PM

The really annoying thing is that in John O'Shea we have a player who should be perfect for this role. He's big, has previously shown good ball control, getting games at a major club, often in CM. You only have to look at the difference Fletcher makes for Scotland.

The only hope is that he moves to someone like Wigan and is forced to do it week in week out.

**dr_peepee** · 23/10/2006, 1:46 PM

Reid won't cover the ground though in a central role, and also his tackles get a bit "Paul Scholes" when he get tired. He has to be carried to an extent. Which is something Carsely can't be expected to do, especially given the fact that Duff and McGeady would be in the mix also.

Stutts is right about our attitude to Subs. No harm having an impact Sub. Something so that the opposition have an eye on the game but also casting one in the direction of the bench in the worry the other guy might be warming up. I sincerely believe that we should repsond to how other teams are dealing with Duff as our principal plan 'B' or at least an alternative.

We seem to opt for the the knee jerk plan 'B' if it's not going right, like "The Big Man" up front or "The Very Fast Man" on the wing as we have now in Alan O'Brien. Teams set out to Nullify the effect of Duff and Keane to a lesser extent over the course of a game. So if they're working hard at keeping Duff under wraps for 55 or 60 minutes throw McGeady into the mix to exploit the extra attention. Maybe in an advanced forward role or on the other flank. You're not gonna see any benifits intoducing McGeady after 80 odd minutes though, especially in a like for like swap.

On the Douglas thing. Sometimes the other team just have to know they're in a game. It's like Arsenal at the minute. NO point in having a team of Super footballers if you can't compete on the Field with Bolton wanderers. You have to suppliment the footballers with a bit of mettle. You'd be surprised what effect a couple of them misplaced Douglas tackles had on the course of the game. Carsley also. Time was though we had a better calibre of 'grafter', that's my only issue with Douglas.

**NeilMcD** · 23/10/2006, 1:54 PM

I think people are a little bit harsh on Douglas, He does not have the ability to pick out a pass like Reid does but he was very good versus the Czechs and did not give the ball away half as much as somone like Kilbane would in the centre. His cushioned header to Duff set up the Ireland goal and to be honest he was the fittest player on the pitch for us as he was still running and making tackles in injury time. I was very impressed with his performance to be honest I would have him and Carsley in the centre and 2 out of Reid Duff and Mc Geady on the wings, with Keane and Doyle up front.

**TheBoss** · 23/10/2006, 2:00 PM

From the way the team is playing, I would have to say it will be a 3-4-3 or 4-3-3. I think more likely 4-3-3.

GK: Kenny

RB: Carr
LB: Finnan
CB: Dunne
CB: McShane

RM: Duff
CM: Carsley
LM: Kilbane

FW: K Doyle
FW: Keane
FW: McGeady

**Stuttgart88** · 23/10/2006, 2:02 PM

I can see Douglas being a bit like Owen Hargreaves. The guy nobody rates until he does exactly what the team has been sorely missing.

I think the point about us having had a better quality of grafter in the past is fair though but he's what we have for now and I'd actually be disappointed if a fit Steven Reid got his place back automatically, just on reputation. Douglas deserves the shirt for now and it's his to lose.

**TheBoss** · 23/10/2006, 2:04 PM

Steven Reid is out until Feb or March.

**Stuttgart88** · 23/10/2006, 2:06 PM

Sorry, I was referring to our best XI in general, not really for San Marino in November.

**TheBoss** · 23/10/2006, 2:08 PM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Sorry, I was referring to our best XI in general, not really for San Marino in November.

OK. I see

**as_i_say** · 23/10/2006, 2:59 PM

kilbane should not be let near cm, neither should o'shea. i think killer is valuable member of squad but needs to be dropped to accomodate people who will play better at left wing. that is his position and he should only be played there or LB for us. otherwise he's a disaster.

kilbane played one stormer of a game for us against the french in cm and that was alongside keane. he would be a useful left back and thats it. o'shea is a real problem. he is a center back, thats it. but has he ever played well for us there? this is another guy who is a valuavble squad player but if dunne and mcshane are fit he should not be left near the team, i wouldnt have him at left or right back either.

a friend of mine taped the czech game for me and we paused it just when o shea lost the ball in midfield or gave away the free cant remember which, he just turned to his right and started staring at the crowd, like he was still thinking about the goal. thgis lad really needs to be dropped imo.

as for andy reid, such a gifted player but he is not a winger. he had a great game agaisnt czechs cos we played a 5 man midfield and he was given a free role. if he is to play in cm he needs a grafter beside him.